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ow it Ends - Let the Lord of Chaos Rule

by Anubis: 2005-08-29 | 4.67 out of 10 (15 votes)

Previous Categories: What's Next?

The Lord of Chaos comment. That always bothered me. I might be wrong, but creating Chaos causes a breakdown in order. When there is less order, there is more chance. When there is more chance, then Ta'Veren have more power. More chances for luck, more luck. The Dark One made it easier for the Light to win.


WOULD YOU UNLEASH BALEFIRE IN MY SERVICE?

LET THE LORD OF CHAOS RULE.

First I have some questions about Balefire...

1. Why does every Last Battle Theory involve Balefire?

2. Why does the Dark One fear Balefire?

3. Why does Rand not fear Balefire?

4. Does the Dark One really fear Balefire?

5. How does this relate to Chaos?

6. How does this create Order?

Balefire is the ultimate destructive power. People see it as being needed in the last battle. Unfortunately they forget that it is creation, and not destruction that imprisioned the Dark One. In my opinion, Balefire will not be involved in the sealing.

The way I see it is like this. Balefire unravels the pattern, creating Chaos. Both the Dark One and Rand need Chaos to win. The Dark One needs Chaos in order to weaken the pattern and to create a situation in which the Dark One can break free. Rand needs Chaos because it creates more situations in which his Ta'veren twisting of chance (luck) can come into play.

Now, what does this have to do with the seals? And why has the Dark One made a move to reclaim the seals?

The Seals determine the time of the Last Battle. When the seals break, that is when Tarmon Gaiden begins. It does not matter how prepared either side is, thats when it happens.

Right now, Rand has control. At the time of his choosing, when conditions are most favorable to him, he can break the seals and initiate the last battle.

Notice that there are four situations in which Ishamael/Morridin and Rand interact.

1. The Eye of the World - The Dragon Reborn. Ishamael attempts to turn Rand to the Dark.

2. A Crown of Swords. Rand is losing to Sammael in Shadar Lagoth. Moridin shows up, saves Rands life, and gives him the inspiration he needs to kill Sammael. This tells us two things. Firstly, Morridin and the Dark One need Rand alive. Or are better off for the moment with Rand alive. And secondly, Sammael was not that important.

3. The Cleansing. Moridin orders the Forsaken to stop the cleansing at all costs. They fail, mostly due to Rands luck, the Forsaken's lack of cooperation, and Moridins not sending the Gholem. This tells us that the Taint was very important to the Dark One, but that should have been Obvious.

4. The seals. This enters into the realm of speculation, but its not a stretch to say that Moridin ordered the darkfriends to capture the seals. This tells us that Moridin wants to control the timing of the last battle. It could be because he wants to delay it and allow the Dark to continue to build up, or it could be because he is begining to see Rand as a threat and wants to stop Rand from breaking the seals. This is the more likely, in my opinion, considering how the Cleansing went off.

We have our two most important characters interacting a total of four times. Something important is going down.

LET THE LORD OF CHAOS RULE

This quote has puzzled many people at Theoryland, myself included. I have gone back and forth debating whether the Lord of Chaos is Rand, or Moridin, or someone else entirely.

I have a different answer. I believe that the Lord of Chaos is merely the person who uses the Chaos best. We have Rand's Ta'veren going against Moridin's Dark One powered manipulation. Basicly, both sides create chaos, and try to come out on top, with the winner being the Lord of Chaos. He seems like a fool (like in the festival) but in reality he ends up winning.

Now, don't get me wrong. There is such thing as too much Chaos. This is why both sides stopped using Balefire in the War of Power. If you screw up the pattern too much, then ANYTHING can happen. Meaning that it could unravel and cause the Dark One to win, or the Dark One could be placed into a worse prison or worse. Not to mention the fact that the people using the Balefire would undoubtably end up confused and suffering.

Now, from Chaos to Order.

A common theme in the books, in fact in literature in general, but prominantly in The Wheel of Time, is Chaos leading to Order. A clear example would be the first three books. In all three books, our heroes start out, for the most part, together, healthy, happy, etc. They start in the Two Rivers, or Sheinar, or a campsite in the mountains. Then Chaos happens. Trollocs attack. The band splits up. They run around the world, creating Chaos, having adventures, being chased, etc. But then it happens. Everyone meets up. Everyone for different reasons, shows up at one place of importance. They all show up at the Eye. Or everyone is at Falme. Or everyone shows up at Tear. Because of this, they win. Rand uses the Eye to hurt Ishamael. Mat blows the Horn. Perrin.. uh... is Perrin and Rand takes Callandor. Order from Chaos. Good triumphs over evil. Later examples of this are the Cleansing, and Dumais Wells. But these are only shallow imitations. Though super cool in their own right.

If Rand is the Lord of Chaos, then it stands to reason that Rand would be the only one capable of making the Dark One win. The Dark One needs Rand to switch sides at the right time and the right time only. That is how Ishamael and Rand are both correct about the Dragon having never served the Dark One.

Rand is the Destroyer, he always destroys. It is his mantra, and everything he touches leads to destruction. Even in a metaphoric way, like the destruction of innocence. Or the destruction of the taint and Shadar Lagoth.

Mat is the Preserver. He fights to save that which is good. He fights under the old codes, the old ways, and he wins. Mat, tries to save everyone he comes into contact with. There is no example of someone good needing help and Mat not giving it to them. Aside from the dagger.

Perrin is the Builder. He is building a civilized nation, that will survive the Last Battle. He is building a kingdom, with a wise ruler. He is a king.

Mat and Perrin can not outlive the Last Battle. Not for long. Both will play a huge role, like Perrin bringing the white cloaks (an act of forgiveness) or Perrin and the Seanchan. He may build a new world nation after the battle and be a king, but he still lives a normal life. Mat maybe dying in battle preserving the old age. His death would symbolize the death of an age, or perhaps, it would be him losing an eye in battle, like that guy in dynasty warriors. Half the Light.

Rand will be christlike, or like Paul in dune. Or Frodo in LoTR. Rand will be Tempted. The Dark One will offer him everything he wants. For Rand that means Elayne, Avendha, and Min. The Dark One will offer Rand the power to save them. To live forever with them.

LTT will realize that to love and lose is better then to sell your soul. And Rand will destroy them and continue to fight the Dark One. And he will win, but be destroyed, and become legend. Maybe he will become a begger, and live happy, but he will not reveal himself, and become human again.

Fain is Golem. But he will have an opportunity to strike at the Dark One. He hates the Dark One more then he hates Rand. The only reason he does not hunt the Dark One is because he feels that he (Fain) would not be able to do any significant harm. That will change. Fain will have to choose between hurting Rand, and hurting the Dark One. And he will choose the Dark One. He symbolizes Free Will, as he is not bound by the pattern.

Elyane will die in childbirth. That is the strange thing about the birth that Min saw and could not interpert. They will be Heroes of the Horn.

Avendha dies with the part of Rand that is a destroyer. I hope she kills Shaidar Haran.

Min might live a normal life, with Rand.

The final battle will be Rand v Ishamael. It has to happen.

Nynaeve + Lan = Malkier

Mat + Tuon = Seanchan

Moiraine + Thom = Political behind the scenes people.

SS + Gareth = Queen and General

Lanfear + Ishamael = Ironic

Perrin + Failie = Manatheren + Borderlands

I hope faile dies. And Nynaeve. And Egwene. Please, if none of the others, Egwene.

Here is what is going to happen. And I will use no specifics. Everyone will randomly show up at the location of the last battle. Everyone will bring an army. From Mat, to Egwene, to Elayne (maybe), to Galad. Everyone is bringing their finest. They win. The end. It will be undeniably sweet.
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2005-10-08

About the Lord of Chaos, I don't think the Ta'veren are exhibiting any more power. In fact, it doesn't seem to be a power they can control, and if there are more events going on than they can manage or be a part of, then I think the affect of their ta'vereness is actually lessened. I think the lessened power effect is noticeable over the last few books, where they have been passed up by the chaos that is occurring. In a recent blog, I think Jordan referred to this as the last punch by the Light, in a fight where they have to knock the Dark side out to win, because they are losing so badly. I like Elayne dying at birth, but I do think Rand will be alive, but unknown in the end.

2

Lord of the Dawn: 2005-10-08

I agree with Tamyrlin on that the chaos seems to be diminishing the ta'verens power as well as destroying many civilizations and people. I don't understand the Fain is Golem part, but I agree with most of the other parts to the theory.

3

Callandor: 2005-10-08

**The Lord of Chaos comment. That always bothered me. I might be wrong, but creating Chaos causes a breakdown in order. When there is less order, there is more chance. When there is more chance, then Ta'Veren have more power. More chances for luck, more luck. The Dark One made it easier for the Light to win.**

Without order, people don't focus on what is important. With chaos ruling, people run, cower, look out for themselves, etc. instead of focusing on that the Last Battle is coming very soon.

I don't think the Dark One is making it easier for the Light to win -- as Jordan has said clearly in his blog, the Shadow is winning as of now.

**Rand is the Destroyer, he always destroys. It is his mantra, and everything he touches leads to destruction. Even in a metaphoric way, like the destruction of innocence. Or the destruction of the taint and Shadar Lagoth.**

Not always. He does create, just no where near as much as he "destroys." For example the schools in Cairhien and Tear. The main creation: the Black Tower. As well as the union of the Aiel as a single people (as other example of single people as well, just the Aiel the largest and most prevelent).

**Mat is the Preserver. He fights to save that which is good. He fights under the old codes, the old ways, and he wins. Mat, tries to save everyone he comes into contact with. There is no example of someone good needing help and Mat not giving it to them. Aside from the dagger.**

Well, the same thing has been true of all the ta'veren really -- when has Perrin ever not given help to those who are good and need it? When has Rand ever not done that?

**Rand will be christlike, or like Paul in dune. Or Frodo in LoTR. Rand will be Tempted. The Dark One will offer him everything he wants. For Rand that means Elayne, Avendha, and Min. The Dark One will offer Rand the power to save them. To live forever with them.**

Rand already has been tempted, and already has refused.

**LTT will realize that to love and lose is better then to sell your soul. And Rand will destroy them and continue to fight the Dark One. And he will win, but be destroyed, and become legend. Maybe he will become a begger, and live happy, but he will not reveal himself, and become human again.**

Don't see how he is destroyed, but continues to live ;)

**Elyane will die in childbirth. That is the strange thing about the birth that Min saw and could not interpert. They will be Heroes of the Horn.**

It was Aviendha that Min saw the strangeness with the birth in her viewings, not Elayne.

**Avendha dies with the part of Rand that is a destroyer. I hope she kills Shaidar Haran.**

Nahh, that's Fain's job -- you can read it to be his strike at the Shadow, but Fain is obviously going to take out Shaidar Haran, and Rand faces Moridin ;)

**I hope faile dies. And Nynaeve. And Egwene. Please, if none of the others, Egwene.**

Gah, Faile won't die. Sadly, neither will Egwene.

4

therobotbadger: 2005-10-09

** Rand is the Destroyer, he always destroys. It is his mantra, and everything he touches leads to destruction.**

What about his Academies? Creating the Asha'man?

**Mat and Perrin can not outlive the Last Battle. Not for long.**

That doesn't make a lot of sense with Perrin's role as the Builder. Wouldn't most of the Building need to be done after Rand does his final acts of Destruction? I believe Perrin will live a long time after TG is over. Also, I'd argue that's why Perrin seems to be the least powerful of the three ta'veren: because his role is more important for after the Last Battle.

Mat, however, dying shortly after TG would make sense with his role as Preserver. All he needs to do is keep some of the old order going in the midst of the new, and he's completed his job.

Of course, I'm not saying that these things are ALL they have to do; on the contrary, I think both will play crucial roles in the victory of the Light.

**If Rand is the Lord of Chaos, then it stands to reason that Rand would be the only one capable of making the Dark One win.**

...then, later...

**[Fain] symbolizes Free Will, as he is not bound by the pattern. **

The Pattern has been throwing out Dragons to fight the DO for countless iterations. They win every time; if any one of them had not, the DO would have broken free by now. Given the Pattern's normal... well, pattern... Rand and company would certainly be able to find a way to defeat the DO in the end; it might involve a lot of loss and suffering, but it'd happen. They would do it because the Pattern would put them in a position to do what they needed to do.

Fain, however, is new. Fain is different. Fain is, to quote from RJ, "unique to this particular Age."

**Question: Has the Padan Fain/Mordeth character been present in previous Ages, or is he unique to this particular Age?

RJ: He is unique to this particular Age. A very unique fellow, indeed. In some ways, you might say he has unwittingly side-stepped the Pattern.**

I say that, left to its own devices, the Pattern would continue to throw up the Light's Champion and reimprison the DO. The Light would win because it always has. Fain, however, is a random element that could actually make the Light lose. The Pattern cannot control him, so he could tip the balance at the exact moment that would cause events to fall down around our heroes' ears. Rand is not the one capable of making the DO win; Fain is.

**SS + Gareth = Queen and General**

What could Siuan be queen of? Where, how, why? WTF, mate?

5

Traveller: 2005-10-09

Or, callandor, chaos could be for another reason entirely- such as weakening the seals.

I know this is debated in other places, but Rand always asks Herid Fel about the seals, and he doesn't manage to get back to him, so I think this final note refers to the seals. This would then (if true) make the rest of the theory above a bit pointless, even though I agree with the majority of it.

Also, I agree with a posting before- How is Siuan Sanche going to be a queen with Bryne as her general? Queen of where? Perhaps an Aes Sedai and her Warder, but where does the queen idea come from?

Please excuse these ramblings of a hungry madman. Muahahahahahaha!

6

Joar Addam Nessosin: 2005-10-09

I could've sworn the Aelfinn said mat would die if he didn't go to Rhuidean because he would've sidestepped the Pattern. Fain is important, but while we are discussing who is going to die, I would like to put up a vote for him. By the way, love the Hinduistic imagery. Also, Mat preserves the lives of countless men because he has their memories.

7

Jahar Narishma: 2005-10-09

I was really excited when I read the title of this theory, but looking over it, much of it is internally inconsistent, and it offers little in the way of prophecy. Allow me to explain:

First you say that Chaos leads to chance, and chance to luck, and then a few paragraphs later, Mat is the "Preserver." Mat is embodiment of luck, so wouldn't he be more chaotic rather than "Preserving?" Which is it?

You then, in the same paragraph, assert that Perrin "can not outlive the Last Battle," and then a few sentences later state "He may build a new world nation after the battle and be a king, but he still lives a normal life." Again, which is it? The whole point of a theory is that it makes a concrete prediction rather than simply saying "anything could happen."

You then go on to say that Rand will give up Elayne et al rather than turn to the Dark, which I find intriguing, but then go on to say that Elayne will die in childbirth and that Min might live a normal life with Rand. Again, which?

Furthermore, as has already been stated, Min's viewing regarding a strange childbirth was Avi, not Elayne. Furthermore, there is another viewing, I believe by Nicola, involving Rand's body on a boat with the three chicks. How does your theory, whichever of the multiple outcomes you predict, comport with this viewing?

I honestly am not trying to be mean, and I'm usually more polite when I disagree with a given theory, but the problem here is that I don't even see what your theory is. Also, could you be a little more specific about those equations at the end? Are they supposed to be predictions of what will happen to these people, or just a statement of how they relate? If the former, why do you then talk about hoping some of them will die, and if the latter, could you be more specific about what these relationships mean? Also, could you be more specific about what you mean when you "hope" that certain things happen? Do you mean that you expect them to happen, or that you do not expect them to happen but wish they would?

I honestly wish there were something more I could say about this theory, but there really isn't anything there to discuss, it's incoherent and internally illogical, not to mention contradicted by numerous points in the books.

Would it be possible for you to rewrite this theory to make it more coherent, if you would like people to be able to comment on it and critique it?

8

Tamyrlin: 2005-10-10

I have just added, to the beginning, a more in depth discussion of balefire and the Lord of Chaos that Anubis submitted after the first theory, and I have attempted to fit it in coherently with the rest of his commentary. But this is Anubis I am speaking about... ;)

9

Anubis: 2005-10-10

**But this is Anubis I am speaking about... ;)**

I dont remember submitting this...

though to be fair i dont remember much of that night...

10

snakes-n-foxes: 2005-10-10

Just throwing a thought out...as you say, the DO let 'The Lord of Chaos Rule'...but why ?

It just struck me that maybe the DO wants to let The Lord of Chaos (Rand) rule, because he is familiar with the nature of The Creator's champions, and that by letting chaos rule, it would lead to Rand becoming harder and harder...in fact so hard that...well, let's put that against Cadsuane who wants to make Rand laugh again, and realise he is human...

And then, the DO wants to turn Rand..

What if the DO's best chance of turning Rand is making Rand so hard that he eventually snaps? So hard, and so weighed down by duty...so hard in the face of a chaotic world, not caring what he's trying to do for them...so hard that when the KEY is turned... ???

(don't know what the key would be)

11

DaisharMalkier: 2005-10-10

You have at the top of that a list of questions, one of them being why Rand does not fear balefire? Any reasonably person would fear something that destroys everything, but Rand would not because he has actually stopped balefire( see and of DR with fight with Baalzamon, forget actual page) using Callandor. He no longer needs to fear it.

On the rest of the topic, it is a little mixed up, but I like how he said that everyone is just a huge metaphor, and got most of them right by my standards. But I doubt SS will ever be a queen again.

12

JakOShadows: 2005-10-10

I really don't understand where you meant to go with this, but on the whole I don't agree. I don't think that its based on who creates the most chaos. I think the main goal of Rand would be to unite all the nations, which it looks like he won't have time to do anyway. But I don't think creating chaos would help him. The one thing I do agree on is the purposes Mat and Perrin, but after that, it just seems like a whole lot of shaky comparisons. Maybe its from lack of sleep on your part, I don't know, but I didn't see much point to what I was reading. And the part at the end, with all the predictions should go in the prediction section, not theory, in my opinion.

13

nsondej: 2005-10-16

nice theory...btw i was wondering...maybe the DO wants the taint because of this: the seals were made with saidar and saidin. when saidin was corrupted the seals began weakening slowly bit by bit because of the DO's corruptive nature saidar was pure so it kept them from going to fast. And as the DO gets stronger, the seals weaken exponentially (faster). but if the taint was removed maybe the seals would hold? would then mean rand was truly in control of when LB happens because he can now take his time to break them when he feels ready.

14

JakOShadows: 2005-10-16

I don't think it would happen that way. Because the you never see the taint in a weaving of saidin, and it never seems to affect it, so how would it affect the strength of the cuendillar. It has already been woven too, most likely before or while it was tainted so it wouldn't affect it much anyways. I think it is just that the DO has had 3000+ years to weaken the seals, so he has had more time to find a way to do it. As to how he does it, I don't know. The book doesn't really give a straight forward answer on that.

15

Davian93: 2005-10-16

Because the cuendillar Seals are/were merely the focus points for the actual Seals on the DO's prison. The DO's physical presence has been pushing against the Seals for 3 Millenia and it goes to reason that this would decay the Seals and the wards maintaining the Seals. You could go further with the theory that the Eye was maintaining a barrier between the Patch and the DO's prison and that is responsible for the Seals lasting as long as they did. If you notice, the Seals have been failing rapidly after the Eye is taken out. Its not direct proof but there is a definite cause and effect present there. And it explains why the Eye was so important as to cause 100 AS to sacrifice themselves to make it pure. Hiding the Horn and Dragon Banner dont cut it.

16

Jiana: 2005-10-16

Just a question: While we never see the taint in the weaves of saidin, we do see at least one thing that was made with saidin, go "bad," apparently from the taint. The Ways were once whole and bright, and now have decayed and turned evil and dangerous. It does stand to reason that other things made with post-taint saidin can corrupt as well.

17

JakOShadows: 2005-10-17

Jiana: I believe the reason for that is because it was made as a living breathing thing. I don't know exactly where the quote is, but in tEotW, when the ways are first explained, they talk about more can be made if you have the treefoil. Now that implies that it still is connected to saidin actively in someway. But the seals or a weaving that was made and no longer is actively connected to or relying on saidin would not be touching the tainted except when it was created. Hence, the seals were not weakened by the taint.

18

Davian93: 2005-10-17

****But the seals or a weaving that was made and no longer is actively connected to or relying on saidin would not be touching the tainted except when it was created. Hence, the seals were not weakened by the taint. ****

Not exactly. The Seals have been constantly connected to Saidin for the past 3000 years. The are the Focus points of the weave maintaining the patch on the DO's prison. They are essentially a ward for keeping the DO in. If you believe that the Eye of the World was a barrier of "pure" Saidin buffering the Seals from the taint until it was used up by Rand, it makes sense that the Taint didnt effect them until after tEotW. After the buffer is gone, the seals have decayed rather rapidly.

19

Ragoth: 2005-10-18

I'm new here, but I have a question regarding the nature of Chaos in this situation. It is my understanding, though I don't have all my books with me to research this, that ta'veren are "spun out" of the pattern to keep the pattern intact. If that is correct, "letting the lord of Chaos rule" would in fact be detrimental to Rand and the Light.

Ta'veren are the embodiement of chance, but wherever they go, the Pattern shapes itself to them and they are shaped to the Pattern. With the pattern dissolving, there is less for shape itself around ta'veren, thus making them weaker.

**Reference to KoD ahead**

Notice that only once did anything ta'veren happen during KoD. Nothing else fits the predetermined course of ta'veren influence.

I don't know, but it just seems to me that letting the Lord of Chaos rule is the opposite of what the Light needs. Rand spends most of the first 6 books trying to bring all the people under his rule in order to have, well, order.

20

drz1649: 2005-10-18

as confusing as this theory is, it's funny how apt the title is applied to the last chapter of KoD.

21

SwimmingBird: 2005-10-19

Just out of curiosity, why does everyone hate Egwene so much?

22

Swallow: 2005-10-19

Ewgene, Faile and Tuon are my three fav. female roles, personally, i think they are more intresting then Nyneave, or any of Rands twisted love sisters. I hope Rand dies. i find him really boring to read through. I also agree with the tamirlyn about the ta'verness. Rand will most likely die, because if he didnt, it would just be cheesy. and this doesnt really go with this thread, but how crappy was that Faile/Perrin reunion?!!? i was disapointed

23

Callandor: 2005-10-19

**Just out of curiosity, why does everyone hate Egwene so much?**

She's a hypocrite who calls people down for being arrogant and then turns around and becomes one of the most arrogant people in the world. She can't grasp the fact that in positions of power, arrogance comes with them. Instead, she criticizes others, and obstains herself.

24

Anubis: 2005-10-22

**First you say that Chaos leads to chance, and chance to luck, and then a few paragraphs later, Mat is the "Preserver." Mat is embodiment of luck, so wouldn't he be more chaotic rather than "Preserving?" Which is it? **

go to a bowling alley. take an uzzi. unload a clip or three at the pins. odds are you will hit them all, but there is a slim chance that one or two will be left standing. those are "preserved".

your mistake is thinking that chaos and chance can only affect destruction. if its chaos and chance then by definition some things must be preserved or else its just destruction and change.

25

Davian93: 2005-10-22

****She's a hypocrite who calls people down for being arrogant and then turns around and becomes one of the most arrogant people in the world. She can't grasp the fact that in positions of power, arrogance comes with them. Instead, she criticizes others, and obstains herself.****

Exactly...she's one of the most arrogant people in the story but she cant accept that others in power would be arrogant. Plus she treats Mat like crap, ignoring the fact that he just might have changed and that is why he's in command of an army. She's halfway decent in KoD's but before that she was brutal.