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guess at Slayer's patron

by juitzhead: 2003-07-30 | Not yet rated

Previous Categories: Slayer's Role - Luc and Isam

Who is Slayer's patron of the moment? Im gonna take a guess.

“ "As you command," Luc replied, bowing, but the man was already making a gateway, a hole that opened into a snowy forest glade. He was gone before Luc straightened.” - WH, Ch22 Out of Thin Air

Ok, probably thinly relevant connections but I noticed that Luc's patron steps into a snowy forest glade. The only places where I noticed that had one and thought that the patron might want to travel to are:

1.The Traveling ground at the BT

2.The WC camp where Asunawa is staying.

1. “In truth, it seemed to turn, the view through it, a sunlit clearing among drought-draggled trees, rotating to a halt.” – LOC, Ch3, A Woman's Eyes

“In the Great Hall he grasped saidin, 'opened the hole in air and darted through into the clearing near the farm, letting the Source go.” – LOC, Ch11, Lessons and Teachers

“The clearing was browner than he remembered, more leaves crackling under his boots and still fewer on the trees. Some of the pines were completely yellow, and a number of leatherleafs stood dead, gray and bare. But if the clearing had changed, the farm was altered almost beyond recognition.” – LOC, Ch42, The Black Tower

2. “On the far side of the clearing, just inside the treeline, was a rude house that had once belonged to a charcoal burner, a single room with winter-brown weeds thick in the gaps between the stones.” – CoT, Prologue

I put No2 as a possibility.

So it is obvious that the patron does not want to be recognised, and that he also does not want anyone to know what he is doing. The only possible candidates that I can think of that would fit this criteria are Demandred and Mazrim Taim.

Firstly with Demandred, a Forsaken with absolute hatred towards Rand. Ive put him here because of a thin link between him and Asunawa (see my “Demandred within the WC's” theory). I think that Dem has been travelling to the WC camp which could coincide with the clearing in the forest where the WC is staying. Really pushing it, I know.

However, why would he disguise himself? Perhaps to avoid Moridin's displeasure at having gone against his order to take Rand and only kill him if necessary (the assassination attempt happens 5 days after the Forsaken Coffee Hour according to the WoT chronology site). Or he could have been looking for the Chodean Kal access keys. Possible but unlikely.

"Killed?" Moridin moved his hands as though weighing something. "If it comes to that, yes," he said finally. "But finding him is no problem. When he touches the Choedan Kal, you will know where he is. And you will go there and take him. Or kill him, if necessary. The Nae'blis has spoken." - WH, Ch13, Wonderful News

"Kill him," the M'Hael had ordered before sending them to Cairhien, but he had been as displeased that they were found out as that they had failed. Far Madding was to be their last chance; he had made that as plain as polished brass. Dashiva had simply vanished. Kisman did not know whether he had run or the M'Hael had killed him, and he did not care.

"Kill him," Demandred had commanded later, but he had added that it would be better they died than let themselves be discovered again. By anyone, even the M'Hael, as if he did not know of Taim's order.

And later still, Moridin had said, "Kill him if you must, but above all, bring everything in his possession to me. That will redeem your previous transgressions." The man said he was one of the Chosen, and no one was mad enough to make that claim unless it was true, yet he seemed to think al'Thor's belongings more important than his death, the killing incidental and not really necessary. – WH, C22, Out of Thin Air

"Do you want me to try again?" Luc asked.

"Perhaps. When I tell you. Not before. Remember, not a word of this to anyone." - WH, Ch22 Out of Thin Air

Mazrim Taim. He ordered the killing of Rand by his Fab-four ashaman as seen in WH.

He knew where Rand was at the time of the assassination attempt.

Slayer asks him if he would like him to try again. The patron's reply is “maybe. But not before I tell you to”. This to me means that he was not at the Forsaken coffee hour, and does not know what Rand plans and how he will be found (when he uses the CK).

He steps into a snowy forest glade, which quite possibly means the travelling ground at the BT.

“Few save the Chosen knew how to reach him, and none of the men among those few could channel, or would have dared trying to command him.” WH, Ch22, Out of Thin Air

This is the only thing that goes against MT. Slayer knows who can and cant reach him, and those men apart from the Forsaken can't channel.

However, MT has been known to take matter into his own hands eg kill Rand in tPoD, but this may have been on Demandred's order, which of course would go against Moridins order of ‘don't kill rand'. So it is likely that MT was working on his own since the end of POD. This is supported by the fact that both Dem and Mori show up after the Forsaken Coffee Hour in WH with orders to kill Rand. So, MT is working on his own, probably without any guidance of from the Forsaken.

I also think that MT has been trained by one of the male Forsaken, probably Moridin or Demandred, since they both were able to reach the Fab-four, so one of them has to have contact with MT. If MT was trained by one of them, there is a possibility of them telling him how to reach Slayer. The disguise is just to fool Slayer so that he doesn't know of the ‘few outside the Chosen' is commanding him.

So, based on somewhat flimsy evidence I think that MT has been commanding Slayer behind Dem and/or Moridin's back.
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Tamyrlin: 2003-08-05

Mazrim Taim is a good guess, but I don't know that I believe he is going behind one of the Forsaken's back. Isn't it possible that Demandred told Taim how to meet up with Slayer, and told him nothing of the Forsaken Coffee Hour, nor about the Choedan Kal? Instead, Demandred says, "go meet this guy, and tell him to kill Al'Thor." That way, instead of Moridin getting the ter'angreal keys, Demandred can go in and snatch them up, all unknown to Moridin. Demandred uses all of his contacts to make this possible, as you outlined with the story of Far Madding...hmm, I like this idea, Demandred was going after the ter'angreal keys that Moridin had expressed he wanted, possibly to challenge his Nae'blisness? :)


Tamyrlin: 2003-08-05

I did a search for you for the words, "snowy forest" and this is what was found:

TITLE: Winter's Heart, CHAPTER: 2 - Taken

"They stood there on the ridge while twilight fell, and nothing moved in the snowy forest they watched. Darkness came without movement, and without Masema, but Perrin did not even think of Masema. The gibbous moon shone white on the snow, giving nearly as much light as a full moon, it seemed. Until scudding clouds began to hide it, and moonshadows raced across the snow, thicker and thicker. Snow began to fall with a dry rustling. Snow that would bury traces and tracks. Silent in the cold, the two men stood there, watching into the snowfall, waiting, hoping."

TITLE: Winter's Heart, CHAPTER: 3 - Customs

"From the first hour after being captured, laboring through the snowy woods, Faile worried about freezing. Breezes stirred and died, stirred and died. Few of the scattered trees still carried leaves, and most of those hung dead and brown. The breezes swirled through the forest unhindered, and small as the gusts were, they carried ice. Perrin hardly entered her thoughts, except for a hope that he somehow learned of Masema's secret dealings. And of the Shaido, of course. Even if that trull Berelain was the only one who could tell him, now. She hoped Berelain had escaped the ambush and told Perrin everything. And then fallen into a hole and broken her neck. But she had far more pressing concerns than her husband."

TITLE: Crossroads of Twilight, CHAPTER: PROLOGUE - Glimmers of the Pattern

"A snowjay's strident cry rang out in the distance, then a second time, a third. Cupping his hands around his mouth, Ituralde repeated the three harsh calls. Moments later a shaggy, pale dapple gelding appeared out of the trees, his rider in a white cloak streaked with black. Man and horse alike would have been hard to see in the snowy forest had they been standing still. The rider pulled up beside Ituralde. A stocky man, he wore only a single sword, with a short blade, and there were a cased bow and a quiver fastened to his saddle."


Callandor: 2003-08-05

To me, it's Taim. The quote of no one but the Forsaken controlling him [Slayer], is just way too tempting to me. Dem ordering it for the ter'angreal... well why the heck not? Dem wants Nae'blis, ordered Taim to order Slayer to kill him and take whatever he has (ter'angreal keys or Callandor), then he can push for Nae'blis.


Shadow Bane: 2003-08-05

The theory makes sense but about the forest, isn't Perrin in a place like that/ And he has Ashaman with him. Maybe there on Taims side?


juitzhead: 2003-08-05

with regards to the 'snowy glade' reference, this is something that im not sure of. If you are in TAR in the flesh, and open a gateway to leave, do you exit at the location that you are currently in OR can you travel to any location from TAR? I think that this is an important question regarding the location of Taim and also Demandred.

Tam, i like the idea the Dem was using Taim to find the ter'angreal. The more i think about it, the more i like the idea of Taim being Dem's proxy in the WT and not Moridin's creature.

Looking back at LOC, all the events from the GM to Dumai's Well, Taim had a hand in it. All this could have been orchestrated by Dem, the 'let the lord of chaos rule' order and 'have i not done well, Great Lord'.

"I didn't arrange his kidnapping." Sammael gave her what he probably thought was a wry look; his scar made it more a snarl. "Mesaana had a hand in it, though. Maybe Demandred and Semirhage as well, despite how it ended, but Mesaana certainly. Perhaps you ought to reconsider what you think the Great Lord means about leaving al'Thor unharmed." - ACOS, Ch20

we know that Dem, Mesaana and Semi have a truce. Dem and Mesaana took a direct hand, Dem using Taim, Mesaana using the BA sisters. All to have mistrust of the BT and WT.

Whilst Semi is with another large group of channelers. Possibly the largest.

Shadow Bane said: ‘The theory makes sense but about the forest, isn't Perrin in a place like that/ And he has Ashaman with him. Maybe there on Taims side?”

I don't think that the patron is with Perrin. The only male channelers with him are Grady and Neald. This would mean that one of them can contact Slayer and direct him to Rand. Highly unlikely.

The only people who know where Rand is are: Taim, Dem and Moridin. Moridin used the Fab Four to get the access keys. Dem and Taim both put the order to kill Rand BEFORE the Coffee Hour.

So as Tam suggested, Dem used Taim to kill Rand and get the access keys through Slayer. This is backed up with this quote:

“Demandred's fists unclenched. It was out in the open at last. He had hoped to have al'Thor dead— or failing that, captive— before this suspicion reared its head. During the War of Power, more than a dozen of the Chosen had died of the Great Lord's suspicion.” – WH,Ch13

this happens at the Forsaken Coffee Hour when Rand's plan is revealed.


Rhodric: 2003-08-05

all the AM apart from those who Rand has raised himself are loyal to Taim and get his special training. at the beginning of aCoS when Taim insists to Rand that he take a full Asha'man with him, i thought this was because only full AM were on Taim's side.

neither Grady or Neald are full AM. Perrin would maybe be able to smell if Grady or Neald were a traitor. but there could be a forsaken in disguise with Perrin. no wait, perrin could probably smell him/her out.


Callandor: 2003-08-06

**all the AM apart from those who Rand has raised himself are loyal to Taim and get his special training. at the beginning of aCoS when Taim insists to Rand that he take a full Asha'man with him, i thought this was because only full AM were on Taim's side.**

Not all, Logain is an Asha'man and he isn't under Taim's special classes. Taim wants Rand to take an Asha'man on because he wanted one of his 4 most dedicated near Rand at all times.

The snowy glade is a good catch, but it leads to more problems then it solves in my mind.


Shadow Bane: 2003-08-06

What about masema? He's with Perrin. Could he be a proxy?


Rhodric: 2003-08-07

well i forgot logain. whoops. pretty big thing to overlook.

revised version: it's either in WH prologue, CoT prologue, or when Rand and Logain meet in CoT, but it is stated that ALL of the AM in the BT (except of course logain) are in Taim's little faction getting extra lessons.

the only other full AM are those who were hunting rand, and those that Rand has raised himself.

well regardless, grady or neald aren't the slayer employer.

i thought halima. in WH at the forsaken coffee hour, he/she has the most frightened reaction to Graendal's (?) claims that since the male frskn will no longer need the Do's protection, their likely to rebel, be unfaithful. she was scared. very scared.

i will post the quote later.


juitzhead: 2003-08-07

"What about masema? He's with Perrin. Could he be a proxy? "

I think he is and so do a few other people. He stinks of compulsion.;)


SDog: 2003-08-20

I'm with Callandor to an extent--the "none but Forsaken" comment just sticks way out. But in going there, one also has to wonder about the "It was a man, he was sure of that" comment. From the first time I read it, I've suspected that it's actually a woman. The only woman with a real apparent desire to kill Rand is Cyndane.


Rhodric: 2003-08-22

For similar reasons i thought Halima.


Oatman: 2004-04-06

Fain could be calling the shots-but making it seem like a channeler doing it. He is aware of Slayers involvement in the 2 rivers, and has a from of travelling, as well as the ability to create illusions.