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eath and birth of Slayer

by Oatman: 2004-04-11 | 5 out of 10 (12 votes)

Previous Categories: Slayer's Role - Luc and Isam

It is said in the books that a wolf killed by a darkhound becomes a darkhound itself sometime later. What would happen of a wolfbrother being killed by a darkhound?

One theory floating around is that Slayer was a corrupted wolf brother because his first contact was with a darkhound not a wolf.

I would like to propose that rather than this, Luc, a champion for the light, and a prospective wolfbrother, wandered into the blight and encountered a group of Darkhounds. These Darkhounds killed Luc, and set about the process of the wolfbrother being turned to the shadow. However because the transformation was meant to happen to wolves, and not men, It couldn't properly reform the body, so a surrogate was needed to house this corrupted wolfbrother soul. Then along comes Isam, Dorkfriend to the toes thanks to his mother and a life lived in the blight, and the DO summons him to SG and grabs the corrupted soul and shoves it into Isam's body, creating the killing machine known as Slayer.

This would explain the pleasure in killing wolves, and satisfies the one dead one alive thing as well.
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Tamyrlin: 2004-06-02

(Frenzy for Tamyrlin)
Interesting idea. Winespring Brother will like it, if nobody else does. robert Jordan stated in an interview that Slayer is not a corrupted Wolfbrother. You could split hairs and say that Jordan did NOT say that Luc or Isam were Wolfbrothers. And you could also say that "corrupt" is open to interpretation.


Dorindha: 2004-06-02

I've said before that I do not like this concept, and nothing's changed, but can you explain how it fits with your thory that Slayer can be Luc in the RW (and probably Isam, but not onscreen as yet) and both in TAR - the fact he can be Luc suggests that body is ok.

I also think it does not explain the killing of wolves - while it's been said wolves will fight a darkhound, it's not been said darkhounds have any particualr animosity for wolves. They can't take their souls if they are actually dead - see the quote on from Elyas in CoT on the other thread.


Kinslayer: 2004-06-02

"Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom.

Isam waited in the high passes.

The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill.

One did live, and one did die, but both are.

The Time of Change has come.


I've always thought Slayer was a fusion/mutation of (Isam+Darkhound)+Luc+T'A'R ability. The connection with wolfbrother/darkhound is given from 'The Time of Change has come' line. this line makes me think of Moiraine commenting on past Ages coming back again when she learned of Perrin's yellow eyes and his wolf dreams.


Darren: 2004-06-02

The only thing new about this theory is the new epithet "Dorkfriend," which I quite like. Other than that, I don't see how completely baseless speculation such as this gets posted on the theory boards, while my own languish in theoryland purgatory for months.


charliec: 2004-06-02

another problem- in the waking world we've only seen Luc's body, not Isam's.

I suppose you could switch it round and have Isam as the wolfbrother, and Luc's body being taken as a host, but why would darkhounds kill Isam?

Besides, Luc comments to Perrin that he knows the dangers of bringing an enemy too close to you... which kind of implies that their fusion occurred in some kind of struggle.


dragonsceptor: 2004-06-02

I have a couple of thoughts on this

1) I think the time of change has come line has more to do with the events in the world than Luc/Isam specifcally. An AS (can't remember which one) sent Tigraine to the waste to mother Rand and Luc to the blight. Malkier falls. The Aiel leave the waste. Rand, Perrin, and Mat are born. The times are changing. The board is being set. This seems a much more likely explanation for this line.

2)More of a question: How is Luc a champion for the light?

3) How does a your explanation account for slayers ability to switch between personalities? It would seem that the situation you describe would create a a constant struggle for dominance, the mind of Luc vs the body of Isam. This does not seem to happen. They appear to coexist amicably with each other.

4) How do you just mix in the T'A'R ability. This is a weak point of your argument. It's like you didn't know how to account for it so you just throw it in. T'A'R ability is rare.


Frenzy: 2004-06-03

Darren, get over yourself. There are over seventy submittals waiting in the Theory queue, and they have to be addressed in the order they're recieved. Tamyrlin isn't paid to do this, this is his hobby. And as you can tell from his recent updates he's a very busy man in the real world with things a tiny bit more important than a book discussion fanpage. The one person Tamyrlin's trusted to help him with this section (me) is also a very busy person in real life with similar obligations. But we both take the time to peck at the mountain of submittals by you and everyone else out of the goodness of our hearts and the manicness of our love for this series and this community.

So do us all a favor and keep your pants on. One of us will get to your submittals eventually. Along with everyone else's.


Anubis: 2004-06-03

go to home and read that. tam has said he is behind, has said why, and has said he will get to them. so chill out. i gots a theory or two (i cant resist) but its been so long since i submitted them i cant even remember (hehe)

anyhoo. i dont think that RJ was being aes sedai like with his response. i dont think that isam/luc and wolfbrothers/darkhounds have anything to do with eachother. they dont even have similar abilities.


Oatman: 2004-06-04

I'm not gonna push this theory to far, I dont have much proof for this.

First off, champion for the light was a slight exageration on my part, I just meant to insinuate that Luc was NOT a DF when he went to the blight. The mind struggle between Lucs mind and Isams body would be non-existance in my view of how it went down because it would have had some type of mind and body melding process resulting in one entity, with slightly split personality. TAR abilities I believe come from the corrupt wolfbrother soul as an extra advanced ability from the coruption.

I always thought that the body changes only occured in TAR, and was a result of Slayer seeing himself as one or the other initial people and stepping out of the dream, As changes in the dream in the flesh stay that way.

Also, I posted this so long ago I cant remember, so settle down, your theory will be posted eventually.


Elder Haman: 2004-06-09

I think a much more interesting question is why Gitra Sedai (sp?) sent Luc off to the Blight when she sent Tigraine to the Aiel Waste. Now Tigrane had to go to the Waste to become Rand's mother- pretty important. What was so all fired important about Luc going to the Blight? He obviously killed Isam, but ended up being possesed by Isam's Spirit- why would Gitra (or the Pattern) want something like that to happen?


Dorindha: 2004-06-11

It's not so much of an issue what Gitara saw happening to Luc in the Blight - Foretellings are notoriously vague, and she may have just seen some problem if he didn't go. Due to this vagueness, chances are that all she saw was the Dragon's existance, rather than anything more sinister.


dragonsceptor: 2004-06-11

Hamen, I've thought the same thing. The only thing I can come up with is that Slayer has an important part to play in the lights eventual victory. I don't think Slayer will help the light intentionally. But I think that w/out Slayer, something that has to happen will not happen. What that is I don't know.


Anubis: 2004-06-12

i have always wondered about that and posted under another theory... i suppose it means that slayer has a pivitol role to play. or that giltara is evil? the shadow needs a dragon.... but still... confusing as all heck