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layers Origins - Oatmans Theory

by Oatman: 2004-04-20 | 5.67 out of 10 (12 votes)

Previous Categories: Slayer's Role - Luc and Isam

Slayer is a combination of Luc and Isam, and Darkfriend to the bone. Isam, who would have been brought up in the blight, and raised to be darkfriend. Luc however, though possibly a darkfriend, I beleieve started out as a lightfriend, for lack of a better word.

It has been said that either Luc or Isam or both are corrupted Wolfbrothers, having made contact with Darkhounds instead of wolves first, and giving them the ability to enter TAR. I would like to suggest a different version of events.

Luc, a nearly wolfbrother at the time, went to the blight to fight it, and encountered a group of Darkhounds. The darkhounds killed him. Now, a wolf killed by a darkhound becomes a darkhound, but what happens to a wolfbrother killed by a darkhound?

I suggest a similar transformation takes place, however, because it meant to happen to wolves, the transformation could not alter the human body. So the corrupted wolfbrother soul of Luc goes in search of a host, and finds Isam, and than a metamorphises takes place which results in Slayer.

This theory explains the love for killing wolves, because this technically classifies Slayer as a darkhound, as far as Perrin is classified a wolf at least. Perrin takes on many wolflike manerisms, so we could assume Slayer would do the same for dark hounds.

It also satisfies the dark prophecy of one living, one dying, and both being:
"Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom. Isam waited in the high passes. The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill. One did live, and one did die, but both are. The Time of Change has come. Blood feeds blood. Blood calls blood. Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be."
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2004-06-13

I have never seen a good explanation for how the "combination" of the two occurred, but I do like the idea that Luc was a wolfbrother. If we remember, "After Luc rode north, never to return, whispers said Gitara had convinced him that his fame lay in the Blight, or his fate. Others said it was that he would find the Dragon Reborn there, or that the Last Battle depended on him going." Gitara might have learned that Luc was starting to "turn", and recommended to him to leave before it was learned, similar to the problems Perrin encountered when he first started to have wolf symptoms. It makes sense that an Aes Sedai, close to the family, might get him out of town, understanding what was going to happen. Why else would he go to the Mountain of Dhoom, if not to die like male Aiel channelers? Maybe Isam, a corrupted wolfbrother, killed Luc, and somehow they became one? I don't know. Like I said, there doesn't seem to be a good explanation for what they are that doesn't include some form of monkey business with souls and bodies and the DO, or the Finns.

2

Brendan Reborn: 2004-06-13

Although many people appose it, I beleive that Slayer will lead the darkhounds in the LB, and that Perrin will be there to counter it. I think this theory makes perfect sense, and only contributes to the whole Slayer/Perrin Showdown.

3

Dorindha: 2004-06-14

I have taken issue with the corrupted wolfbrother thing before, not because I think it is impossible, but that I have not seen any convincing evidence for it. You say that killing wolves classifies him a a darkhound - why? We know wolves can be turned by darkhounds, but killing them is not very helpful. I took that to mean he is very evil (he shouldn't be able to kill a wolf in TAR) but not that there is any deeper connection to the wolves.

It is true he makes a suitable "balance" for Perrin, but there is no real need for this, or that it means balance in terms of wolves - just two non-channellers with extra skills.

I agree that Luc wasn't dark to begin with, and it is possible he was a wolfbrother, I just feel unconvinced, though your merging theory is plausible. However, I appreciate that this is a popular idea.

4

charliec: 2004-06-14

I know this objection has been voiced before in other threads, but...

If Luc is the one who died, how come it's his body that we see in the waking world?

The only thing which points to Slayer being a corrupted wolf-brother is that he kills wolves in the dream (we can't really accept it as him being a opposite to Perrin, as RJ hasn't made a big thing so far of having mirror characters). We have to ask ourselves though, might Slayer kill wolves if he weren't an ex-wolfbrother? Answer: Yes, quite possibly.

Remember it isn't just wolves Slayer likes to kill... the first thing we saw him kill was a hawk, we know he's killed many Trollocs and Fades, and we know he REALLY enjoys killing Aes Sedai...

Basically Slayer likes to kill, and wolves aren't anything special in that aside from their presence in TAR, and thus the chance to kill them utterly.

Basically, I'd say it may be that Slayer is some kind of Darkhound brother, but until I see some kind of stronger link I'm not going to swallow it.

5

amazinglarry: 2004-06-14

When asked the question "Is Slayer a corrupted wolfbrother? Robert Jordan has said no. I think that really hurts this theory. I would suggest that Slayer was given the gift of being able to enter TAR from the dark one, not because of some wolf connection that either Luc or Isam had in their pre-Slayer days. He likes to kill wolves because he considers TAR his domain and doesn't like the fact that wolves live partially in TAR.

6

snakes-n-foxes: 2004-06-14

What I've always wanted to know, is how is Slayer able to enter and exit TAR in the flesh without channelling ? (as he did in WH, where he came out of TAR into the room where he though Rand and Min were staying in Far Madding)

I don't think that either Luc nor Isam were corrupted Wolfbrothers either...although I am by no means certain of that.

7

Callandor: 2004-06-14

**What I've always wanted to know, is how is Slayer able to enter and exit TAR in the flesh without channelling?**

Odds are, it is one of his "gifts" from the Dark One.

8

HappyFade: 2004-06-14

For the corrupted Wolfbrother question...

Long Island, NY: Is Slayer a corrupted wolfbrother?

Robert Jordan: No.

http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20040106007/tscript.htm

9

charliec: 2004-06-15

I occasionally wonder if this is something to do with the upcoming 'Knife of Dreams'...

10

The Leveler: 2004-06-19

The Dark Prophecy counteres your theory. Luc came to the Mountains. Isam was waiting for him the the High Passes. That is where you are supposed to go to meet the Green Man. But Luc was amubushed by Isam. I think he won, but then showed mercy. Book 4, Luc says he knows about taking in an enemy. That way his knife goes in quicker.

11

solomonrex: 2004-06-20

There's another possibility: since we haven't seen cannibalism in RJ's magic system, the dual personality/dual thread amalgam called Slayer may be the result of an eater's soul and eaten soul. That's one way they could meet and become one.

12

mako0424: 2004-06-22

I thought this theory very clear and i was quite convinced it was true until i found out about the RJ interview denying this.

But i continue to argue that even if Slayer isn't a corrupt wolfbrother, i think he may lead the Darkhounds into battle anyways, that or a Forsaken, and i also think that even though there haven't been pairs of mirror characters made or anything, i think it logical that in the final fight and book that Tarmon Gai'don will result in each main character performing some huge task for the Light to win the battle, many of these including killing the bad guys, therefore its natural that one would have to consider who would Perrin, a non-channeler/wolfbrother be most equally paired with, and considering Slayer origin's and powers it would have to be Perrin or Lan in my opinion.

13

Zader: 2004-06-23

Snakes-n-Foxes reply mentions slayer stepping into a room in FM attempting to kill Rand and Min. I thought he was after Lan + Nynaeve. This was why he took the job at short notice.

14

Strongbow: 2004-06-23

I believe that Slayer is Perrins opposite. I am fairly certain that Moridin(Ishamel) is Rands and am also under the opinion that Fain is Matts (the luck thing n the dagger). So there is no reason why slayer can't be Perrins opposite. He kills wolves and is the first male not channeler able to enter the world of dreams.

15

Callandor: 2004-06-23

**Snakes-n-Foxes reply mentions slayer stepping into a room in FM attempting to kill Rand and Min. I thought he was after Lan + Nynaeve. This was why he took the job at short notice.**

No, Slayer, in Luc form, thinks about how he wanted to kill his "nephew and the wench." Rand's mother being Tigraine, the Daughter-Heir disappeared, and her brother being Luc, who is half of Slayer. Luc is Rand's uncle, making the sentence much more obvious to be Rand and Min, not Lan and Nynaeve.

It doesn't work to even suggest Isam, since he is Lan's cousin, not uncle.

16

charliec: 2004-06-24

**I believe that Slayer is Perrins opposite. I am fairly certain that Moridin(Ishamel) is Rands and am also under the opinion that Fain is Matts (the luck thing n the dagger). So there is no reason why slayer can't be Perrins opposite. He kills wolves and is the first male not channeler able to enter the world of dreams.**

Ishy isn't a good opposite to Rand, it sounds weird but they don't share enough characteristics... usually when authors set up opponents as mirror images they keep enough characteristics similar that the relation is clear, but made interesti by their different starting conditions or aims...

Nor are the differences between Ishy and Rand really polarised, aside from good/bad, which is a bit boring. There's not even enough bad blood and rivalry between them (not like Lews Therin vs. Sammael or Demandred). Nah, Rand and Ishy are just enemies.

As for Fain, if he were Mat's anti-character you'd expect the two to be pitted against each other, but Fain is focused utterly on Rand.

I simply don't feel that RJ has really gone for balance and opposites between his characters like that.

17

snakes-n-foxes: 2004-06-27

Was just reading Solomonrex's idea on Slayer resulting from an 'eaten soul'.

I liked this idea at first, it sounded plausible. But then, if he can eat one soul, why can't he eat more ?

Yet it doesnt sound like the binding was done at SG by the Dark One (nothing to say it wasn't, but the dark prophecy seems to imply it wasn't)

An enigma

18

Zader: 2004-07-02

Callandor Thanks I did slip up there. After a little thought though, and it may be in some other posts, do you know how "Luc knows" he is Rand's uncle.

19

Zader: 2004-07-03

In TEOTW chapter 47 Moiraine is talking about questioning Padan Fain

“Fain said he had been made the Dark One's hound...The Father of Lies set Fain to hunt, first changing him so he could carry out that hunt” IMHO Padan Fain would not be the only
one this happened to. I am not sure, but are there any other references to Luc/Isam being connected to Dark Hounds except for the Dark Prophesy. If you read the DP verse "Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom. Isam waited in the high passes. The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds ''Luc/Isam” now course, and kill. One did live, and one did die, but both are. The Time of Change has come. Blood feeds blood. Blood calls blood. Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be." Luc/Isam inserted by myself, the verse seems to read with more continuity. Also if we changed Luc/Isam in the following
Fain “Luc/Isam” said he/they had been made the Dark One's hound...The Father of Lies set Fain “Luc/Isam” to hunt, first changing him/them so he/they could carry out that hunt. Does not explain how “Luc/Isam” changed but could be explanation why.

20

Korell: 2004-07-05

I was going to ask about Isam's relation to Lan but i looked it up and they are cousins. So he would have been speaking of Rand and Min for sure here is a little idea on the Luc/Isam front.

i know it sounds cliche but what if there is still a little but of the originaly Luc in there sure Isam has corrupted him thus far but we have heard it said sevral times that no one and stray so far from the light that they cannot return example would be Asmodean he joined the Dark One not because of Power specifically but for Imortality but when he is severed i always got the sense that he was not the pure evil that the others are i always got the sense that he wanted to be on the good side but only if they were going to win (i think given the event that he were the turner of the tide of weather good or evil would win based on which side he joined he would choose good) that being said there is always the Possability that Isam/luc could have a inner battle and Luc would prevail (even if just for a moment) and prevent some event from happening (of course all this is theoretical because everything we have seen is that Slayer is pure evil just a thought