he Gold Ajah
by mako0424: 2003-12-30 | Not yet rated
I have partially heard this theory before, but i have a little more to say to that, or it being called the Purple Ajah.
I chose Gold for the obvious reasons that this Ajah's sole purpose is to ensure that the Dragon will make it to Tarmon Gaidon, and that Aes'Sedai will be there to help.
Here are some reasons and suggestions why?
We have learnt that one of the constantly recurring themes within Jordan's novels is balance, The balance between Good and Evil, Black and white, Aes'sedai to asha'man, saidar to saidin, black tower to white tower, and that strength comes from balance.
OK, bear with me. There are obviously seven public ajah's in the White Tower. all having their own traits and purposes, while Green serves the closest to the sisters dedicated to Tarmon Gaidon, they dont exactly ensure this, they are simply the Battle Ajah. I think there is two secret ajah's dwelling within the Tower.
The Black Ajah, still secret, but known to many more sisters (and readers) are dedicated towards the destruction of the Dragon, and the insurance that the Dark one will succeed. We know Black sisters can come from any Ajah and that they for-swear the Three Oaths when becoming Dark sisters.
Well, the balance theory would suggest that their is another Ajah, one meant for good, one chosen outside of the regular ajahs. I will call them Gold for the sake of ease.
Well lets look, The black sisters forswear their oaths and make new ones.
Well my theory is the Gold Ajah forswears their oaths to, to ensure that they have full potential to make sure the Dragon lives, whether it comes to using the power as a weapon.
Ok, i know your saying sounds reasonable, but why have there been no mentions whatsoever of any other ajahs, while the Black was mentioned constantly.
I think there have been mentions.
first of all think Verin is defintly part or leader of it.
She has been shown lying technically and this goes against the three oaths, but we also know for sure that she is good and wants rand to make it to Tarmon Gaidon. There has been mention of more Ajahs during the age of legends too, well maybe some others made it through the breaking and what not. The gold which searches for strong, honroable sisters to accept this duty. and i think it was the Gold ajah that allowed moiraine and Siuan to hear Gitara's fortelling and they searched too, they could very well be in the Ajah alerady, or maybe it was kind of like a test to prove their loyalty.
I think Cadsuane might know of this ajah, and possibly turned down acceptance, or she too is in it.
I also think that this huge scheme of Young Sitters in both Rebel Tower and White Tower is an indication that some force is trying to unite and seperate the Ajahs. Like the Black ajah, there are both Gold sisters still in both Towers and factions.
I think the heads of the ajahs, if not gold themselves, have been planning secretly to put these young sitters in, to control them and make sure that they accept male channelers, and help Rand. Since these young sitters came, huge advances have been made openly on the tower's behalf.
1. Accepting novices of all ages.
2. attempting to send embassies to seek Rand's protection and aid him.
3. attempting to unify both Black and White tower now.
There are many hints that this could exist, or it could be one of my hair-brain schemes that come out retarded.
Any help would be much appreciated.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2004-01-02
(Frenzy for Tamyrlin)
i agree that there is a movement within the Aes Sedai that is separate from the Ajahs and focused on Rand and the Last Battle, but i don't think it's formalized, like you've theorized. (and i don't think Verin's outright lied, either, but that's open to debate)
Small nitpicks: Foretellings can't be predicted, so the fact that Siuan and Moiraine were in the room when Gitara had her last one was nothing anyone (other than the Pattern or the Creator himself) could arrange. Also, it's the Rebel Tower that's adopted the new policies about Novices, not the White Tower. That's an important distinction.
And lastly, if there were a secret Ajah set to counter the Black, you'd think the Black, or the Amyrlin, or the Sitters, would know about it. All three have made no mention of it. In fact, Elaida inadvertently set up a group of sisters to ferret out the Black Ajah. There'd be no need for this if there were a secret Ajah set up to do just that.
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Dorindha: 2004-01-02
I like some of the ideas raised in this theory, but I can't agree with the idea that there is a separate institution, much as Frenzy said.
On the other hand, Verin is quite a wild-card, and it is possible she is on a one-woman mission for this.
The other important point is that the Green Ajah (the Battle Ajah) is specifically for holding itself ready for TG - why would there need to be another Ajah to do this?
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WinespringBrother: 2004-01-02
It's a cool theory and I wouldn't discount it, given that RJ likes to "keep the readers interested". I don't see any clues indicating Moiraine's or Siuan's involvement however (though maybe something will be revealed in New Spring). However they couldn't have been in this Gold Ajah at the time of Gitara's foretelling, since they weren't raised to the shawl yet.
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timmah3209: 2004-01-03
Good thought, but without any real textual support it is just theorizing. I don't think there is any real evidence of this occuring, it seems more like a "what if." But hey this is theoryland isn't it?
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Zaela Sedai: 2004-01-03
The only problem I see is that you are saying the gold ajah balances the black ajah. Wouldn't the non BA balance the BA? It just doesn't seem practical. And there is no proof that Verin has ever lied.
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Isiyn: 2004-01-04
Well I am new to the forum and on book eight (just started by the way). Although I have not read as much as some, I kinda agree with the whole balance idea beacues RJ does use balance though all the books.
If any one would know about the "Gold Ajah" it would be Cadsuane because she has been around a pretty long time. Aslo Verin shows the signs of being a part of this Ajah throught lying (bending the truth) and such.
Well I like the forum and just want to let you know there is a Wheel of Time mud at www.wotmud.org and it is great. Please go and check it out. If you decied to join my name is Rhaad look for me. Great job on the forum.
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Anubis: 2004-01-04
mayhaps verin is working alone?
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Alanna Mosvani: 2004-01-04
Good work, mako0424. I'll add my support that there is a Gold Ajah, and propose that their goal is to reunite male and female channelers.
I think it makes a lot of sense that there would be a "secret" Gold Ajah if the members were released from their Oaths - though they are still working for good, that's a big no-no. I could see the members being the sort of independent sort, like Cadsuane, who know that going through the proper channels is nota always teh appropriate choice. After all, how much does the Hall actually accomplish, arguing over everything? I suspect Verin and Cadsuane are both members. That's why Verin thought "it was good to be sure of Cadsuane at last." And if she WASN't sure of Cadsuane, she might have poisoned her. I can't imagine that being OK by the Tower.
BTW, one "lie" of Verin's that I have never seen properly explained is in the Great Hunt, where she tells Perrin she was sent by Moiraine. One outright lie is enough to prove she is not bound by the oaths.
One highly irregular thing that has been introduced in both sides of the Tower is the idea of allying with the Asha'man. In the rebel camp, this was introduced by the younger sisters, which as discussed above could be Gold Ajah. Could reuiniting male and female channelers be the true goal of the Gold Ajah? This would distinguish them from the Green - they are not getting ready for the Last Battle, they are planning for after.
In Elaida's camp, the idea of bonding Asha'man was proposed by Tarna Feir, the new Keeper. Though not presented in the most favorable light, I would still believe Tarna is Gold Ajah, and her Red affiliation would get her close to men who can channel...It would also be ironic for the Black Keeper to be replaced by a Gold. The Keeper seems to be the real power anyway, Elaida's sort of a dingbat.
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: 2004-01-05
Why i do like the theory alot i am with Frenzy on this one i really can't see how there could be a Gold Ajah and we have never heard about it i am of the liking that
Verin = 1 woman dragon supporting machine
Cadsuane = 1 woman dragon supporting machine
Moiraine = 1 woman dragon supporting machine
one other thing if there is a Gold Ajah i dont belive that have forsworn the truth oath and there is a reason i think this...opps i slipped up and lied and got caught now i am known to not be bound by the oath rod...this creates a few problems
1. Odviously you would lose trust with other sisters and almost certainly be considered weather your BA or not
2. also no matter how good you are there is always that chance that you might accidentally lie and get caught
3. the most important of all is if the public finds out then that will further damage the genral populus view of AS and they will see them as even more mistrustful then most already do
also Alana though there is no difinitive proof that Verin did not lie in the Great Hunt there is no proof that she did either as many have said before her actions indicate that she may have justified to herself the twist of truth i personally like the idea of this.
Moiraine had said that Rand needed an Aei Sedai with him and that Verin for the purposes of twisting the truth said to herself i am that AS and thefore it was me that Moiraine was refering to so in a round about manner Moiraine did send me .
so she could have convinced herself that Moiraine sent her and therfore did not lie outright this is the only instants that i can find that verin "may" have lied that has any real merrit all in all i dont belive Verin lied i think she is just very exceptional at bending the truth
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Zaela Sedai: 2004-01-05
Whiever had the above post, my thoughts exactly. We know that Moiraine, Verin, and Cadsuane (even Suain for that matter) have something special about the way they do things, and although I'm not so sure about an other ajah I do think they are all bound to the oath rod. They are obviously not working together, which is why I don't think the is anything organized, but they (I think) all have the same basic purpose. Good catch about what Moiraine said about Rand needing an AS.
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Korell: 2004-01-06
That was my post above that had no name about verin cad and moiraine
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Isiyn: 2004-01-06
Well I would like to bring something else up, this theory my friends and I have thought a couple times before.
As you know the DO has Forsaken. In the theory of balance what if Verin and the others are the Creators "Forsaken" so to speak.
Help me with this one.
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free will: 2004-01-07
Korell- tGH page 523- Verin claims that damane can feel men channeling.
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Callandor: 2004-01-07
**Korell- tGH page 523- Verin claims that damane can feel men channeling.**
Nope.
**TITLE: Great Hunt, CHAPTER: 44 - Five Will Ride Forth
"What about you?" Rand asked. Verin shook her head. "You forget the damane." Her mouth twisted around the word in distaste. "The only way I could help you would be if I channeled the Power, and that would be no help at all if I brought those down on you. Even if they were not close enough to see, one might well feel a woman - or a man, for that matter - channeling, if care was not taken to keep the Power channeled small." She did not look at Rand; to him, she seemed ostentatious in not doing so, and Mat and Perrin were suddenly intent on their own feet.**
Verin doesn't know that women cannot sense male channeling, but she doesn't exclaim it as fact. Even if she did, she wouldn't know if they could or not, she just BELIEVES that they MIGHT be able to. The 3 Oaths are extremely weak on this as we all know from future novels.
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Isiyn: 2004-01-08
Well do you think that maybe (in the theory of balance) that verin could very well be a "Creator Forsaken" so to speak. Note she is not a Forsaken (evil), instead she works for the light.
This theory would suggest that their is a hidden faction that RJ has not brought out in his books. This theory also keeps the previous theory of balance.
Please respond.
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Callandor: 2004-01-09
**Well do you think that maybe (in the theory of balance) that verin could very well be a "Creator Forsaken" so to speak. Note she is not a Forsaken (evil), instead she works for the light.**
Why have Verin as a "good" Forsaken working for the Light, instead of looking at it as the Forsaken are balancing (trying) against Rand (and Mat and Perrin, why not!)?
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Jiana: 2004-01-10
Hmmm, makes me think. I have always wondered, and am still wondering, about Verin, and Cadsuane for that matter. The balance idea makes a lot of sense, but then, as has been asked so often, why haven't we heard mention of it yet? On the other hand, this theory supports my idea that perhaps Verin is an agent for the Light, or the Creator, just as the Dark One has his own. Her being a member of the hypothetical Gold Ajah would make more sense than her just going it alone.
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Isiyn: 2004-01-11
Why not Mat, Rand, and Perrin? I dont know, but all three and include Verin, as well as Moraine, could be for lack of a better word, "Light Forsaken".
As Jiana said this now supports the fact that their might be a Gold Ajah and the LF.
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ilgross: 2004-01-15
I am against this theory for a couple reasons:
1) We have heard no rumors of this Golden Ajah whereas we have heard rumors of the Black Ajah dispite their secret exsistence.
2) Verin and Cadsaune are no proof they are just strange Aes Sedai and have we met a single Aes Sedai that wasn't strange and mysterious.
3) There are dark friends in the rest of the world, and yet no group has formed to counter them, unless you count the whitecloaks. In this world, as in ours, everyone is assumed to be good unless they are proven evil, so a group of select goodies would be kinda pointless.
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caitlin: 2004-01-16
I like the idea of balance, but I think the balance comes from the seven light-dwelling Ajahs. seven Ajahs working together (eventually) to balance out secret Black sisters. Just a thought.
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ike44: 2004-01-17
One point that alanna makes is what if the gold ajah was created to help for after tg? that there is certianly a good point. would the white tower have never thought of what would happen after tg? i dont think so. i wont say whether or not there is a gold ajah w/o the oath to not lie (because as we have seen it is possible to get a hold of the oath rod and remove the three oaths) so it is possible and even likely, but i dont think that there is enough proof that they do or even dont exist just some thought provoking ideas and tidbits that RJ has left for us to think about. i think that cadsuane has released herself from the three oaths because she has lived so much longer then any other a/s and probably as long as some of the kin.
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dragonsceptor: 2004-01-18
I don't think Cads has removed the oaths from herself. I have two reasons for this. First, the fact that she has lived longer than other AS does not mean she has relesed herself from the oath rod. The oath rod is the reason for the ageless face and is also the reason for the AS dying sooner than the Kin. If she was living longer because she had been releaesd from the oath rod, she would not have the ageless face. Second, I know if have read (can't remember exactly where) that Cads is estimated to be arround 300 years old. There are members of the Kin of 600.
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Isiyn: 2004-01-21
Yes but the oath rod also speeds up their lives, so how could Cads be alive so long w/o forsaking her oaths. Auctally it's not forsaking but its giving her oath up for a better oath to the creator.
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Callandor: 2004-01-22
**Yes but the oath rod also speeds up their lives, so how could Cads be alive so long w/o forsaking her oaths. Auctally it's not forsaking but its giving her oath up for a better oath to the creator.**
Or, as is HEAVILY hinted at in the books, she is approaching the end of her life and will die within a few years.
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Zaela Sedai: 2004-01-22
~Yes but the oath rod also speeds up their lives, so how could Cads be alive so long w/o forsaking her oaths.~
Crown of Swords,CHAPTER: GLOSSARY
Cadsuane Melaidhrin (CAD-soo-ain meh-LIE-drihn): An Aes Sedai of the Green Ajah who has approached legendary status among Aes Sedai while still alive, though in truth most sisters believe she must be years dead by now. Thought to have been born born around 705 NE in Ghealdan, which would make her the oldest living Aes Sedai, she was also the strongest in the Power found for a thousand years or more until the advent of Nynaeve, Elayne and Egwene and even they do not far out-step her.
It is now about FY1000, therefore she is 295 years old, AS this age can live to be 300, (give or take) with the oaths
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Dorindha: 2004-01-23
As Callandor said, it is hinted at that Cadsuane is very near the end of her life. I think lifespan is related to power - she is a lot more powerful than any other "old" AS, and thus it makes complete sense for her to live longer. She would live proportionally longer with or without the oaths.
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rubbernilly: 2004-01-23
Pet Theory Alert:
I have always disliked Cadsuane, but that is a different discussion that centers around her method of trying to make Rand learn to laugh and cry (Min manages this without all of the badgering and posturing.
However, I have always harbored a secret hope for Cadsuane that she would rise above her own childishness and grow up. Specifically, I have always hoped that she would be one of the first AS to willingly be released from their oaths to live on in semi-retirement working good around the land.
It's easy to see a forceful character like Cadsuane just *deciding* that it was still too soon to let herself die, that she still had far too much to do to entrust to another, so she gets released from her oaths to keep working.
Being that she is a living legend with the AS, this sort of move from her might go a long way toward solidifying the tradition for other sisters.
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Jiana: 2004-01-30
Back to the original basis for this post: the sense of balance throughout the series. I am not going to name what all is balanced by what, since if you're posting here, you already know. My question is this: Would EVERYTHING in that world have its counterpart? More to the point, is the One Power (which can be used for good or evil) opposite the True Power (which comes only from the DO)? Or is there yet another facet of the magic that is the counterpart to the TP, and the OP is stuck in the middle? (I really need to get to sleep earlier... my posts become somewhat garbled after a certain hour :))
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Davian93: 2004-01-30
Maybe its possible to access the TP without going through the DO. Like Jiana says everything else has balance too it and the OP can be used either way. Perhaps the TP can be used either way, or perhaps the Creator has his/her own version of TP that the light can use. It would be interesting to see some sort of manifestation of the Creator (other than the Dragon which is the Creators champion) before the series is over. Although I hope Rand doesnt win by some sort of "divine" intervention, that would kinda kill the story I think. So if the TP has a balance, it also must be located outside of the pattern and be normally inaccessible. Makes for a interesting debate if nothing else:)
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Anubis: 2004-01-30
i think the balance thing works here, but kinda in a different sort of way. The creator clearly has more influence in the pattern then the dark one, so there is more light then dark for the most part. The 7 aja are all assumed to be ... lightfrienders for lack of a better word. They balance out the darkfriends who are the black aja and live in secret. It is also like the True Power and the One Power balancing eachother out. The true power is less accessable because the Dark One is imprisioned. The One Power is available to everyone (well everyone who it is available to... it doesnt require permission) because the Creator is using it to weave the pattern. If the dark one were using the True Power to weave the pattern, he would have much less controll over who got to use it and the creator would most likely be able to pick and choose.
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dragonsceptor: 2004-01-31
I agree with you Anubis. I think that the One Power is the balance to the True Power. I also agree that access to the True Power is more limited because the DO's influence on the power is more limited.
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Davian93: 2004-02-01
Reply to Anubis:
I agree completely. The balance of the TP and OP is much more likely than having another hitherto unknown power existing.
An interesting question: The DO resides in his prison, where does the Creator reside? The Creator guides the universe by weaving the pattern using the wheel. There most likely is a physical manifestation of the DO. Is there a physical manifestation of the Creator? Can the Creator take human form?
I ask because I can see the DO taking direct control if he is able to break lose from his prison or have the last seals broken. Can and will the Creator do the same? or will he simply use his proxy, the Dragon?
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dragonsceptor: 2004-02-02
I think that the pattern has a passive control device that attempts to keep the world in a pre-programed balance instituted by the creator. For a discussion of how this is possible, see the theory by "A Dragonburned Fool" about mirror worlds. Nothing I have seen in the books suggests that the creator is taking an active hand in steering the pattern.
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Vimmzy: 2004-02-02
well, i think that the creator won't come and fight for the light, because that would ruin the balance. What the creator will do, how i see it, is that he will create balance in time of the LB. He will make it possible for the shadow to fight the light on terms that will allow either side to win or loose. This is what the DO is trying to prevent ofc.. All of this balance thing isn't as easy as you take 3 good ppl and then you take three bad ppl, since everything is kinda grayscale. so the forsaken are very bad, and they are channelers of great strength. The Aes-Sedai in general are quite good but not so powerful compared to the forsaken, so it takes more Aes-Sedai to balance the forsaken. well you can see where i am going..
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Khaos: 2004-02-03
I'm not so sure about a hidden Ajah I think that would be something to difficult to conceal while still bound to the 3 oaths as I believe Verin and Cadsuane still are.
There could be some loose association of sisters whose outlook isn't exactly typical of the tower. I think Verin is part of a plan or association of a few Aes Sedai who have an as yet undisclosed agenda.
I don't think Cadsuane is part of this. It is altogether possible that the phenomena of young sitters could be an aspect of this plan.
However what this plan is still open to great deal of debate. I have a theory but it is pure speculation.
My theory which has no real evidence to back it up is that Verin is setting up the tower(s) to take a fall. Not that I consider her to be Black Ajah I just think she may be trying to retore Aes Sedai to the way they were in the Age of Legends. They were the Servants of All and they used there abilities (or were at least supposed to)to serve the people. In the 3000 years since the war of power that has changed and now Aes Sedai expect the people to serve them. It is an opinion ingrained into all Aes Sedai as they are trained and one that can only change with the fall of the tower. I think her plan is to bring about a new institution where Aes sedai serve and don't rule in the shadows.
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talera: 2004-05-20
I agree with Tamyrlin, that there isn't a formalised Ajah. When you consider that everything must return to how it was before the breaking (read Harid Fel's theories for more info) this means that there must be a breakdown in the formal structure of the Ajahs. In the Age of Legends, Aes Sedai were described as "a vast sea of ajah". This was not a static grouping; the groupings changed according to need and skills. So we may simply be seeing the very early stages in the breakdown of the structure of the Ajahs, with each individual conforming less to their Ajah's guidelines. This is supported by the fact that sisters of the Red Ajah follow Rand. It was prophecied that Rand would "break the ties that bind". Most assumed this referred to the Aiel, however what if this had wider implications, and included the Ajahs?
