New Purpose
by Cairodin: 2005-06-20 | 6.36 out of 10 (11 votes)
Ok, this is a simple theory. This is probably shorter than you'd like, but to hell with it: here I go...
This deals with the Red Ajah and what their new purpose may be. We know that since the taint on saidin has been cleansed there is no real use for the largest of the seven Ajahs. That leaves a lot of Aes Sedai without direction.
One solution I have come up with is based off of Tarna's remarks on the matter. The Red Ajah will become the ambassadors to the Black Tower, and will deal solely with Asha'man and their relations to Aes Sedai and the White Tower. This could very well mean that the Reds will become an Ajah where you are only allowed to bond Asha'man as your Warder. I particularly like that idea, as it would be a huge irony. This does not mean that only Reds will bond Asha'man, of course. We have already seen some other Aes Sedai willing to take them on as their Warders. It merely means that they may only bond Warders that channel (who knows, some may even choose to be bonded by the Asha'man!).
Now, there are a few problems with this. Many Reds have become so set in their ways of...uh, “not getting along with men,” and their hatred of saidin is such that they will not just embrace the idea of the new purpose of the Red Ajah. I believe that those not willing to be a part of the Reformed Red Ajah will be allowed to switch (like Siuan and Leanne, although Siuan chose to stay with her chosen Ajah). Maybe they will be allowed to join the Kin, but I find this option less likely for most of these Aes Sedai.
In conclusion: I believe that after a time of initial panic and a feeling of being "lost," the Red Ajah will discover its new purpose; a change from hunting and severing men who can channel to embracing them as their Warders and encouraging the relations between saidar and saidin users. However, as a result of this extreme shift in ideology many members of the Red Ajah will become alienated. They will be allowed to join another Ajah or the Kin if they so choose. This will drastically reduce the Red Ajah's numbers, and the once largest Ajah shall become one of the smallest. Only girls willing to “live on the edge” and “put up with woolheaded men” all day will join it now.
So, I think that covers all that I wanted to say. I think many of us already thought about some of this, or pondered it.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2005-07-06
At first, I rejected your idea, because of the anger created at Logain's bit about the Red Ajah propping him up. However, I like your solution. The leaders of the Red Ajah will want to retain their power, to the point, I believe, they will accept a new mission to bring the Asha'man under some form of control, even if it means using the warder bond, or some variation, to do so. But, while a good idea, I don't know that I see Jordan introducing it now. It might be a symbol of sorts of a new Tower, after the Last Battle...just some thoughts.
2
Anubis: 2005-07-06
Well, i think they will intend to bring the males under controll but it will end up being more of an equal relationship. Basicly it will get males and females to start working together again like in the AOL. If you think about it, the Reds saying the taint is gone is the only thing thats really going to convince anyone.
Side Theory: Male and female channelers will marry and bond eachother.
3
terez: 2005-07-06
I think this change will come about quicker than you think, Tamyrlin. The idea was nearly simultaneously set up in both camps of AS, which seems a sure plot device to me. Tarna's idea solves the problem that Egwene's camp faces:
CoT ch. 30 "What the Oath Rod Can Do"
"You think you can talk the Asha'man into accepting the bond?" Egwene could not keep the incredulity out of her voice. "Aside from that, who is going to do this bonding? Even if every sister who doesn't have a Warder took an Asha'man, and every Green took two or three, there aren't enough sisters. That's if you can find one who doesn't mind being bonded to a man who is going to go mad."
CoT ch. 22 "One Answer" (Tarna)
"Red sisters must take them as Warders, Pevara . . . The only other choice is to let them run loose. Who else can do it? Red sisters are used to facing men like this, and ready to take the necessary risks. Anyone else will flinch. Each sister will have to take more than one, but Greens appear to manage well enough with that. I think the Greens will faint if this is suggested to them, though. We . . . Red sisters . . . must do what needs to be done."
Then Pevara shows her the note from Toveine Gazal, which surely told of the bonding of the fifty-one sisters, most Red, by Logain and his followers.
"This changes nothing," (Tarna) said flatly. Coldly. "It only makes what I suggest more urgent."
"On the contrary," Pevara sighed. "That changes everything. It changes the whole world."
It will surely change the Red Ajah. Perhaps they can get an Asha'man to hold the Oath Rod and testify to the taint having been removed. That will blow the Red Ajah's current purpose out of the water.
4
matoyak: 2005-07-06
i like the thought of such an irony...that would be hilarious! god i suck at spelling...but anyawy, yes, i have thought about this, but thought that it probably wouldnt happen in the books...especially if there is only gunna be 12, i'm not really sure how he will be able to wrap up the series (even leaving some parts untied) in only 2 more books unless he makes them around a 1000+ pages each :S :| i personally would like 13 books, but u no...
5
ranman38: 2005-07-07
Who better to keep and eye on those pesky male channelers. Good theory.
6
JakOShadows: 2005-07-07
I do think the Red Ajah is hungry for power and they would do anything to keep their sense of purpose, but I do not think they would bond the Asha'man because they want. They would bond them because they think that they need to be controlled or the world is danger. And that would be the only way in my mind that they could convince themselves to do this. I don't think it would be for the purpose of good will and ambassadorship. That to me just never seemed to be their mode of operation. It is possible though.
7
Yaga Shura: 2005-07-07
I don't agree with this.
Many of the Red Ajah hate men in general. It's hard to see them accepting warders at all, and to accept men who can channel, with or without Logain stirring the hornet's nest. Highly unlikely, in my opinion.
That said, there are some, like Pevara, who approve of the idea of Warders. I can see some of them, like her, taking a warder after the Tower schism is resolved, but if the Red Ajah leadership remain old school anti-men types, it might not happen.
I think it is important to remember that the asha'man will not suddenly become a trusted and well liked group. People are suspicious enough of Aes Sedai, without adding in three thousand years of hatred and abject fear. Those fears will not just evaporate over night, and the Aes Sedai, who are very bent on tradition will be more resolute in clinging to the old ways than anyone else.
"will be allowed to join another Ajah or the Kin if they so choose."
This, I do agree with. Although I see it working such that the former Reds who are wanting a warder are allowed to leave.
8
Ozymandias: 2005-07-08
I just don't see this happening. Like Tamyrlin says, maybe after Tarmon Gaidon, but not before. While I think its an interesting idea of where the Reds may turn to next, I feel like many of the current sisters, of all Ajahs, have strong feelings about male channelers. The Whites, the only ones who have come close to suggesting this (with their breeding scheme), are as aghast as anyone. I think certain predjudices of 3000 years are hard to erase for the current generation, and that a couple dozen years need to pass before we start seeing this truly happen
9
mako0424: 2005-07-08
I myself do not see a huge Bonding session, excuse the pun, at all between any aes'sedai and asha'man, let alone the red ajah. Its too limited and we know that although it gives strength and endurance, anytime someone dies, it is going to affect the other drastically, i instead propose, as others have before, that the Red Ajah will continue to be Hunters of a sort, but more like Darkfriend hunters, or policemen.
Unfortunately, i love guessing what will become of the Red ajah, and many other aspects of channelers and white tower, but most of this will not change until after the Last Battle in which case, i don't know how many of our questions will be answered, or if any of these ideas have any relevance.
10
El Guapo: 2005-07-09
I think your theory does not make sense to a Ajah who's life has been being the Hunter...Reds are not mediators, A better purpose for them would be to become a the Hunters of the Black Ajah, dreadlords, etc... This a more fitting plan for the Red Ajah. They will never spend their life dealing with men. Even now they don't bother having a warder. This is a better job for the White Ajah.
11
terez: 2005-07-11
I still think those of you who think this won't happen any time soon are mistaken - I think this is one of those things that has to happen before the last battle. It has already started with both Asha'man and Aes Sedai in control - though more AS are controlled by AM than the other way around. What else is there for the Reds to do? I think Elaida's unwillingness to approve of any such thing will lead to Pevara and Tarna helping to unseat her. Who wants an Amyrlin that secludes herself in the top of the Tower and stares at her palace being built all day? It's a good opening for Egwene.
12
Richard: 2005-07-12
But there are many AS with AM as warders already... and none of them reds! would they have to change ajahs? As the reds have no made any AM a warder as of yet, I think it would not be their bussines. And what about the AM with AS as warders? I think, as casuade said, AS would continue to bond AS and viceversa. Once started you cannot stop it, period. If the men are not mad the reds cannot ask other AS to release their warders nor forbid other ajahs to take new ones (nor forbid AM to take AS as warders). The reds are out of comission, I'm sad to say (or a new purpose, but not this one. Me thinks)
13
a dragonburned fool: 2005-07-13
Yaga:
***" I don't agree with this. Many of the Red Ajah hate men in general. It's hard to see them accepting warders at all, and to accept men who can channel, with or without Logain stirring the hornet's nest."***
Exaclty the fact that many reds hate men in general makes this scenario actually possible. In the books we have enough examples of hatred or other hostile emotions that develop with the time in friendly affection. Hatred in general has the important feature to engage you in action towards the hated ones and in reactions to their actual behavior. If you really hate something you have more chances to face this something. But the situation of facing something are situations of stress, and situations of stress make you prone to change your position. The hatred of the Reds is something making them to search actively for men in the land, to engage in more field action than other Ajahs (with the exception of the Blue). Their hatred of men doesn't make them stay away from men, but it makes them searching for a particular sort of men. This hatred makes the Reds try be closer to the channeling men. This haterd makes it unbearable for them the situation with the Black Tower that cannot be destroyed. This hatred will make it easier for the reds to make the self-sacrifice to bind an asha'man under unpleasant conditions. Because Reds are women who agree to live in unpleasant manner of life and to sacrifice more (in comparison with other Ajahs) of their personal life for the sake of the Grand Danger. This will really make them more willing to bond asha'man than other Ajahs.
El Guapo:
***"I think your theory does not make sense to a Ajah who's life has been being the Hunter...Reds are not mediators"***
The task to bind asha'man is not a task of mediation. Not in the way Tarna sees it. It is rather a task of ... call it observation. Let have a hunter who faces a situation with the beast becoming suddenly so clever and powerfull that the hunter cannot approach more the beast. What will make a clever hunter (I mean a hunter for whom hunting is passion and necessity)? The hunter will try to get closer to the beast in a manner to not wake up beast's suspicions. It's like the task to get closer to an wild animal - you go in a distance the animal tolerate you and stay quiet and do nothing until the animal allows you a step closer... Having in mind the fear all Aes sedai feel about channeling men, then exactly hunters would be the first ones who would try campaign of binding the asha'man.
14
free will: 2005-07-19
Richard: The theory wasn't that only Reds would be allowed to bond AM, but that AM would be the only men that Reds would be allowed to bond.
Basically the theory is that if a woman bonds a man and she is read then by (new) Tower Law the man must be an AM. That's the theory, not that if a woman bonds a man and the man is an AM then by (new) Tower Law the woman must be a Red. That's not the theory, that's your misreading of the theory. Do we know if the warder bond is broken if the warder is severed?
15
Jane-Sedai: 2005-07-27
Whilst I think this theory is a very possible, I beleive the climax of the series will be Rand battling the DO. I don't think there will be many pages dedicated to what happens after the big battle, so I think its not likely that we will find out.
16
Dumai Wells: 2005-07-27
Cairodin, I congratulate you, after reading the prologue to Knife of Dreams....
Prologue Spoiler....
it is apparant that Reds bonding Ashaman is precisely what they will be doing. I don't know if you have read the prologue, but the "Highest" (which is the leader of the red Ajah Tsumasha or whatever her name is has commanded that the reds will be bonding Ashaman. We do not know if it is some red ajah plot or what their intentions are but there is no doubt that this is what they will be aiming for. Tamyrlin must agree that not other theory posted here has been that dead on. nice work Cairodin
17
terez: 2005-07-28
Glad somebody else spoiled this first. I knew this would happen sooner than posters here apparently thought - but technically, the "new purpose" won't be official until the Cleansing is confirmed, though bonding is supposed to be permanent. Even if it isn't official yet, though, I can't see a Red trying to gentle a man she's bonded. Well, I can see some Reds doing just that.
18
Richard: 2005-07-29
That's what the want to do... I still see far to many things going wrong. There will be very few AM who would like to be warders of reds, especially after speaking with Logain. Besides, the rebels are also apraching the AM with a far better deal (does not involve bonding). I think this is a development plot to help unite the tower (both factions are thinking of the same things, just in different terms) rather than to give the reds a new porpuse. That's my opinion.
19
Calebman: 2005-07-29
Personally, I can't see why bonding is necessary in any way at all. I don't think semi-slavery through the warder bond is a good idea. I think after the Last Battle it will be necessary to integrate the two towers into one unified group. They would be bothe male and female. It would be like the age of legends, and they would be true Servants of All, not Servants of Few. Although I admit the current Aes Sedai had their uses, a new order will be neccesary for common people to trust Aes Sedai, and for the Oaths to be totally unecseary.
Sorry, got off on a tangent. Anyway, bonding should not be necessary. Although it could be usefull for husbands and wives. They could use the bond for all couples who wished to be joined in such a way. As for the Reds, maybe they could work on ways linking saidin and saidar could be used. Then, men could join the Red Ajah. That would be ironic, but in a good way.
20
Anubis: 2005-07-30
I would give this theory props, but its like saying Rand will take Callandor after reading the first few chapters of The Dragon Reborn...
21
Baean AimaDe: 2005-07-31
First , Toveine wouldn't have sent a letter saying the Asha'Men had Bonded The Sisters, Remember Logain's Instructions not to do anything against him? Most likely the note handed over was a note saying that the Taint was Clean ( a WHOLE BIG camp of Ashaman Saying the same thing would be a BIG thing to report that would be unrestricted by the warder Bond ). [ Insert Paragraph Space Here ]
So you have Reds being told the Taint is clean, Tarna Saying Nothing , and Pevara saying it changed the entire world. What's this mean? I have no clue.
22
Baean AimaDe: 2005-08-01
Seems I was wrong! Tho, how Toveine Writing a not that will incite people against Logain Squares with Doing nothing against him is beyond me!
23
Traveller: 2005-08-03
I completely agree that the Reds will need a new purpose. However, I really don't think that this could work. OK so this is a fantasy book, but I feel that Jordan wouldn't be taken seriously if he changed these women from vehement men haters, who would like them all to be eaten by trollocs, to women who work with them and balance them. I'm sorry but it isn't working for me.
24
terez: 2005-08-03
Calebman, you do have a point with saying that the issue of bonding is unnecessary, possibly detrimental, and unlikely. Yet I still believe it will happen, simply because these same drastic measures that might bind Tower and Rebels back together might be what it takes to bond male and female channelers back together - and the issue of "slavery" isn't quite defined in terms of bonding between channelers.
