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ining up for the Last Battle

by Hammar: 2005-10-21 | 5.29 out of 10 (7 votes)

Recent Categories: How Will It End?

The Fires of Heaven, pg 469

“There do be few great captains living. Agelmar Jagad and Davram Bashere will no leave the Blight, I think, and Pedron Niall will surely no be of use to you. If Rodel Ituralde do be alive, he do be mired somewhere in what do remain of Arad Doman. And that do leave Gareth Bryne.”

This was said by a Warder in The Fires of Heaven, the 5th book of the series. As we all know, Jordan is a great one for forshadowing and laying down hints at the most random times. The Warder said this to tell the Aes Sedai he was with that Gareth Bryne would be a great general for the army, yet he mentioned several other great generals that were around at the time.

There are four great remaining generals (excluding Mat) in the series as of now. Rodel Ituralde, Gareth Bryne, Davram Bashere, and Agelmar Jagad.

Tarmon Gaidon will consist of millions of Trollocs pouring out of the Blight to attack humankind. At the present, (which is post-Knife of Dreams) it seems that if Tarmon Gaidon were to occur in the next week or so, humankind would be doomed. However, seals will hold for a few months and humankind will be prepared.

Rodel Ituralde (who is one of the great remaining generals of the time), with his Domani and Tanchico troops, are securing Tanchico and Arad Doman from Seanchan. After Ituralde’s campaign is finished, he will go back to Arad Doman with a great victory behind him. However, since Ituralde is busy fighting, he won’t know about Rand’s Aiel in Arad Doman until it is too late. As soon as Ituralde makes it back to Arad Doman, he will run into the Aiel and Rand will make an appearance. Look at pg 34 in KoD, where it says from Ituralde’s POV, “He always looked ahead, and always planned for every eventuality he could imagine, short of the Dragon Reborn himself suddenly appearing in front of him.” Jordan is quite a foreshadower, so I believe Rand will become allies with Ituralde, and Ituralde will lead the forces that guard the western part of the Blight. We know now that Galad is willing to fight alongside Aes Sedai, Asha’man, or even women who can channel, so it is likely that Galad will join Irultrade as well with the remaining Whitecloaks. See Galad and his Whitecloaks will eagerly eagerly follow Ituralde because of his success at fighting the Seanchan. A random Whitecloak is noted as saying on pg 27 of KoD “I’ll fight beside the witches, or even these Asha’man we keep hearing about, if they fight the Seanchan. Or at the Last Battle.”

Agelmar Jagad is with the Borderland Army in Andor. His home nation, of Shienar, borders Tarwin’s Gap. We know Tarwin’s Gap is key to the Last Battle as it is Lan who says on pg 430, “In the Trolloc Wars, the Shadow used Tarwin’s Gap to move large numbers of Trollocs, just as it did a few years back, when we sought the Eye of the World.” So we know someone has to be at Tarwin’s Gap. Rand will finally meet up with the borderland army and inform them of the approaching Last Battle. The borderland army is only a gateway away from being at Tarwin’s Gap. Also, to add to their forces, Lan is riding West-East gathering every able-bodied man to join him in riding to Tarwin's Gap. So with the last king of Malkier, and Agelmar Jagad (who is one of the great remaining generals of the time) at Tarwin’s Gap, the eastern part of the blight is defended.

Gareth Bryne is with the rebel Aes Sedai army in Tar Valon. Tar Valon lies directly south of Arafel. Egwene will secure the tower from the inside and this will leave Gareth Bryne with a very large army under his direction. Again, with the Last Battle coming, Egwene will make the right move and send Gareth Bryne north to Arafel to guard the Blight there. So with Gareth Bryne (who is one of the great remaining generals of the time) in Arafel, one half of the central part of the blight is defended.

Which leaves the last part of the blight to defend, and coincidentally leaves one remaining general unaccounted for. Davram Bashere has proven to be extremely valuable to Rand all throughout the series and it would make sense that he easily sees the time of the Last Battle coming. Now all the other generals have their armies to defend their quarters of the Blight, but what/who is Bashere to use to defend the last part? Answer: the Seanchan (for several reasons). The Seanchan, on this side of the world, will eventually fall under Tuon’s reign as Empress, and will follow her command. As you know, it was Bashere who went with Loial and Logain to conduct the treaty with the Seanchan, and who arranged the “meeting” with them. And with Mat and Tuon married, Mat can advise Tuon about the necessity of sending the Seanchan forces to guard against the Blight with Bashere, and Mat of course. So the last part of the blight is defended, under Bashere’s direction.

So the Blight will be readily defended against the multitudes of trollocs that will pour out of it. I’ve mainly only mentioned the main generals and a few others just to give a short perspective but the Aes Sedai, Asha’man, and Dreadlords will all be there fighting, along with Perrin, the Wise Ones, and all the forces from Cairhien, Tear, Illian, and Andor. Rand will not be there, as well as a few others like Logain and Alivia, because their duty is to destroy/imprison the Dark One for good. The massive war on land is the distraction that Rand needs to accomplish his task (much like in LOTR when they distract Sauron’s eye).

This theory isn’t too complicated, and sounds much like a prediction, but I can easily see this happening in Jordan’s last and final book (which may be around 2000 pages). Especially at the speed that he is letting things happen, these events could happen within the first hundred pages of the next book.

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Tamyrlin: 2005-10-26

I like the spattering of foreshadows that you use. I have used the foreshadowing, often, as a tool to construct theories. However, Jordan hasn't followed through with each one, which has been a bit disconcerting. However, I do think Jordan has brought all four generals into the series for a reason having more to do with the Last Battle. But the big question remains, will the Last Battle versus Trolloc occur near the Blight, or will we find large groups of Trolloc showing up in various parts of the land, like those that attacked Rand? Of course, the Ways would be difficult to use for anyone that is not Fain, and gateways appear to be out of the realm of possibility. However, I think it is likely that with the armies of the North away, the Forsaken have succeeded in bringing contingents of their troops much further south than we may know. I wonder if the Dreadlords could use the Skimming Space to move Trolloc? I like your idea, but I wonder if Jordan will bring the fight to these generals, versus bringing these generals to the fight. He has moved Lan into place, but other than Bashere, it may be difficult to get them in place as you suggest...although, that is a fun foreshadowing you found about meeting the Dragon Reborn.


Ozymandias: 2005-10-26

I'm not so sure, Hammar. Pedron Niall was brought in to give some tactical balance to the misguided enemies of our trio (specifically Perrin), but he flared out. Jagad has totally faded from the series, and I think he was only mentioned because he's a commander Rand has come across in his wanderings, and we therefore know who he is. Same with Bryne, except in his case he's occupied. Egwene isn't bringing down the Tower any time soon, and even if she does, she still needs to deal with the Seanchan attack. So he's occupied. Bashere has just been chilling with Rand in general; he's part of the balance. We have Niall fighting for misguided ideals, Ituralde fighting for anarchy (basically), Bashere for Rand, Jagad for the Borderlanders, and Bryne for Egwene. Thats every Western faction accounted for (except for the White Tower).

I think it isn't so much foreshadowing as Jordan just giving us nice facts to digest. Sure, Ituralde may join Rand, and all the others as well, I think, but you may go to far in saying they were brought in to the series as foreshadowing and merely to defend the Blight for Rand. I think this is an element Jordan created and then integrated, not one where he had a clear idea where it was going from day 1 of the character's introduction.


Callandor: 2005-10-26

**I wonder if the Dreadlords could use the Skimming Space to move Trolloc?**

Jordan has said Trollocs (and Shadowspawn) cannot survive using a gateway, because they are artifical constructs. He didn't specify Traveling, just gateway in general.


Tristin: 2005-10-27

could be...i've been wondering if the cairhien will end up under Morgase...she's gotta be in the series for some reason other than cleaning Perrin's skidmarks.


Eek: 2005-10-27

"the Aes Sedai, Asha’man, and Dreadlords will all be there fighting, along with Perrin, the Wise Ones, and all the forces from Cairhien, Tear, Illian, and Andor. Rand will not be there, as well as a few others like Logain and Alivia, because their duty is to destroy/imprison the Dark One for good. The massive war on land is the distraction that Rand needs to accomplish his task (much like in LOTR when they distract Sauron’s eye)."

There is actually only one thing I disagree with you on this one. The four great remaining generals must be present at the LB.

But I would say that Mat and Perrin must be present at Shayol Ghul when the Bore is to be sealed. Min's most common vision about the three Ta'verens is light sparkles being eaten up by darkness. But when all three is present the darkness isn't strong enough to succumb the sparkles. This I believe to be a vision that says that without these three present at Shayol Ghul that day, there won't be a victory for the Light.


Eek: 2005-10-27

"There is actually only one thing I disagree with you on this one. The four great remaining generals must be present at the LB." ooh... sorry... meant to say that I agree with that the generals must be present...


Hammar: 2005-10-27

*...but I wonder if Jordan will bring the fight to these generals, versus bringing these generals to the fight. He has moved Lan into place, but other than Bashere, it may be difficult to get them in place as you suggest...*

very good point Tamrlyin, and it's my fault that I didnt specify what I meant. Jordan will bring the fight to the generals. Ituralde and the Aiel are in Arad Doman, which isn't even connected to the blight. When the LB occurs, however, they can move to intercept those hordes of shadowspawn. Same with Lan. It will take him a few weeks to ride clear across the Borderlands and gather an army. And when hes done, at Tarwin's Gap, the LB will begin. Bryne is at the Tower, and not too far from the Blight, so he will be ready to turn his forces north and defend against that particular part of the Blight. The only fallicy in this is Bashere, who is nowhere near the Blight, and after some thought, I've considered him not being at the Blight, but instead fighting shadowspawn that somehow make it past the blight, by using the ways. Its obvious that some shadowspawn will get through by the ways, else why would Rand place so much emphasis on guarding them.

*Egwene isn't bringing down the Tower any time soon*

No? There were two-three chapters in KoD about Egwene in the tower. In the first chapter, Egwene was a captive and was getting knocked around by the Aes Sedai. By the second chapter, novices and accepted were respecting her and coming to her for advice, even calling her mother! And at the end of her viewpoint in KoD she had a few Aes Sedai running around for her and the novices gave her a standing ovation. So, with the pace of writing that Jordan adapted to in this book, i believe that Egwene will secure the tower soon and the seachan attack could come right afterwards, which all may happen in a couple of chapters.

Jordan has stated that he knew the ending of the series before he even began writing book 1. So it will most likely be some huge scene with Rand, Perrin, Mat and a few others. (Ill stop there because there are other theories that discuss that, and it doesn't have much to do with this one) Ituralde, Bryne, Bashere, Jagad; they are all characters that Jordan COULD have just created along the way and don't have much significance. That's just not the case. Excepting Jagad, the others have played extremely important roles. And they will continue to. Jordan will bring the fight to them and at least three of them will be right near the Blight where the battle will be the hottest, and most important.


Lord of the Dawn: 2005-10-28

Good theory Hammar :)

I agree with your ideas that the generals will be guarding the Blight when TG happens.

I think Mat and Perrin won't be at the Sealing, but will be doing something important. Perrin will be leading all of the wolves, and Mat will be taking down some Forsaken because of his ter'angreal and the gholam if its not already dead. Loial will be leading the Ogier.


IkilledAsmodean: 2005-10-28

Let's see...the various skilled Generals...

-Jagad, in Andor at the moment.

-Bryne, at Tar Valon (which we KNOW is to be attacked by the Seanchan at some point, thanks to a Min viewing).

-Bashere, where Rand is for the ost part

-Itularude, I butchered that name, but in Arad Domon, trying to remove the Seanchan, put together the Domani forces, along wiht the Taraboners, the Dragonsworn in the are, and hey, what the heck...the Aiel, if Rand commands it (and don't be shocked if it happens).

-Mat, in southern Altara gathering the now extremely large and formidable Band of the Red Hand...and, without a single Darkfriend in his midst, so far as we know

-Perrin, who's forces now span the Two Rivers men, and the armies opf two other countries

-Logain, where Rand sends him

-Lan, riding the Blight

-Birgitte, in Andor wiht Elayne

-Galad, gathering the Whitecloaks

-Gwayn, who knows.... reality (does that apply here?) this is really more the "really effective leader list" than one on Generals, because not all see themselves as such....but they are all very good generals. If you don't think so..find me which of these people the Shadow doesn't fear leading an army.

So, anyway, how does this add up? Threats from the Blight, and anywhere the Seanchan still control (although I beleive this to be for the shortterm). Threat from the Black Tower in Andor, because Taim, I'm sorry...Tay-EEEEEEM, is undeniably a darkfriend, and probably a Dreadlord. Either way..he's got a force that cannot be underestimated at any point. And whoever among the Ogier turns out to be a Darkfriend (they're the only oens we haven't seen one's coming..and my guess is Elder Haran). So...with the various Forsaken, also involved, we're looking at some huge battles.

-Wherever Demandred guess is at Mat. Gambler vs Gambler.

-Andor. Tay-EEEEM vs Elayne. He has several hundred channelers, and probably a foot army. She has several hundred channellers and a foot army.

-Tarwin's Gap. Expect Lan there, and at least one Borderland General, probably Jagad. Oh....and a few Trollocs.

-Wherever Rand is. Moridin can sense him, he'll attack him. So Rand WILL be in a huge battle, I'd bet on it. Which brings in Logain and Bashere.

-The Aiel Waste. The Shaido and many many others are returnign to elect new eladership, and I'd be willing to wager that things won't be nice and friendly at home. And they'll turn loyalty to rand wiht Sevanna out of the way and cleaer heads in charge. And Rand will send one of his generals to the Waste wiht an army to help. Perrin maybe. He's the only one who didn't go to the Waste it makes sense to send him now. Which would include Tam and Barelain and all of those. Or maybe a newly made aware Galad. After all....the Aiel women would lvoe to find out that there's a second son of a Maiden....and the Whitecloaks and Aiel fighting and dying together seems right for some reason. Or why not...both. perrin and Co, and Galad and Co. This would help Galad meet up wiht Baerelaine, and we all have our theories on that.

Leaving? Bryne, guarding the White Tower, which will probably be subject to at least 3 attacks. One from him, one form the Seanchan, one from the Shadow.

It also leaves Ituralde, but....with his rpesense in the west helping to divert the Seachan quite a bit..I'll leave him out of this.

So..what do you think?


lurk: 2005-10-29

Ituralde will certainly defend the western part of the blight. With the Aiel he wil have about 400000 fighting men

Agelmar Jagad and Lan at Tarwins Gap, but Agelmar Jagad comes late and probably only Lan and a few hundred malkieri and borderlanders are left there. They have bought time

Bryne will assist Agelmar Jagad. making that army about 350000. I think that Perrin and the whitecloaks with Galad will hook up. Morgase will make Galad see what is the right thing to do. Meaning not fighting the seanchan but the shadow.

Mats band togehter with a lot of seanchan will be the reserves. who will probably have to chose who they need to help. Maybe Moiriane will be the advisor in this and so fulfilling Min viewing that Rand would fail without a woman dead and gone. I think they will be the force to carve a path to Shayol Ghul for Rand and his band of channelers

Logain and the ashaman and the aes sedai leaded by egwene will face the dreadlords in andor. Probably the legion of the dragon will be annihilated there

Rand and his band will fight the forsaken and SH and it will look grim. Perrin will come to the rescue with the wolves. Fain will be the wild card proably wounding moridin with ths SL dagger and killing him. SH or slayer may kill fain. Slayer is of the royal line of andor so this may fulfill elaida´s foretelling.

The remnant of a remnant will be the Shaido aiel who have had enough of fighting and dying and return to the way of the leaf (that would be great irony)


FraKcture: 2005-11-01

This started as a rather interesting read. Mostly prediction based on conjecture, but nonetheless interesting. But I think we are deteriorating into wild speculation now. IkilledAsmo suggests "it makes sense" to send Perrin to lead the battle in the Aiel waste on the grounds that "He's the only one who didn't go to the Waste before". And lurk suggests that "Perrin will come to the rescue with the wolves" to save Rand from the forsaken and SH.

Lets take a deep breath and come back to reality people.

I do like the way you laid things out, Hammar. But this really should be in the predictions. There's just not much evidence at this point to back up many of your points. The most concrete is that Lan is heading towards Tarwin's gap. It does look like Ituralde will have many of the western forces united to be used as Rand directs. We do know Rand will be at SG at some point. But I think the location of these battles is still indeterminible.


IkilledAsmodean: 2005-11-02

Indeterminable? We know the White Tower will be attacked by the Seanchan at some point. For certain. We can be pretty sure of some sort of conflict there between the two factions, as well. And we can be almsot sure about there being some form of battle with the Shadow's forces.

Andor seems completely logical for a battle, because you've got a major light side and a major darkside force within the country, as well as several other independant armies.

The entire west is already a huge battle, and should continue to be so.

To top it off, I highly doubt that the Shaido Aiel are jsut going to goh ome, and the Aiel Waste will peacefully slumber through the Last Battle.

Wild speculation? Nah. more like..oh...reading the books.


the silent speaker: 2005-11-02

Rodel Ituralde (who is one of the great remaining generals of the time), with his Domani and Tanchico troops, are securing Tanchico and Arad Doman from Seanchan. After Ituralde’s campaign is finished, he will go back to Arad Doman with a great victory behind him.

Ituralde never intended to come back in triumph or with the Taraboners still in tow, and he has already not been disappointed. The point of his Tarabon campaign (or one of them) was to draw the Seanchan out and into a trap of his making, not rout them where they stand. Plus the Seanchan have already beaten the Dragonsworn Taraboners and resecured the country, IIRC.

I agree that he'll have an unexpected chat with Rand and help at the LAst Battle as he can, though.


FraKcture: 2005-11-03

IkilledAsmo, it seems to me that the battles with the Seanchan will come before the last battle. (The white tower being attacked, for example.) Rand certainly believes so, as displayed in his efforts to make an alliance before the last battle. Mat's marriage with Tuon also lends support to this. So I do not think that example applies to this theory.

I did find alot of the points interesting. But which part of "oh...reading the books" gave you the idea that Perrin would lead the battle in the Aiel waste? That was my whole point.

Andor does seem a logical battle. But can we say for sure that there will be a battle betwen good and evil there? Taim's forces are all highly mobile. If attacked, they would probably defend the black tower. But there's no reason to say that they might instead be used as a strike force somewhere. Perhaps they will all be leading forces out of the blight. As I said, I still consider many of these locations indeterminible.


JakOShadows: 2005-11-03

Actually, I think the great generals have already played a major role. Yes, they probably fight in the LB, but they were ideally placed to bring balance.

Ituralde - will help weaken the seanchan so they have to make a truce with Rand

Bryne - will help reunite the tower without drawing blood(which takes considerably more skill in my mind) while working with Egwene

Agelmar - defending the blight and having a strategy for helping Lan

Bashere - training the legion of the dragon and leading them, since it seems Mat would have never had time to do it himself.

So in short, they have been used like HotH, to fill the military power gap and bring balance where Mat, the greatest general of the age couldn't. Then when the time comes, Mat will lead them all to whatever purpose is required. And I just wanted to bring up one thing. As far as the fighting is concerned I believe the channeling battle will take plus at shayul ghul, and great battles elsewere will be without channelers(hence the invention of cannons). Mat will need to be where the channeling is, but he will have a definite guiding hand in the overall plan and the raid on shayul ghul. Hence, the ter'angreal that makes him immune to channeling. And then Perrin will bring his will wolves to fight at shayul ghul where they are needed. The fighting elsewhere will serve as distraction so Rand, aeil and co can get the jump on the forsaken at Shayul Ghuol. Hence, why so many of the aeil die and the reason they are know as the toughest fighters and fear death the least.

And one more thing, I do not believe the fighting will take place anywhere else except in Randland. Not the waste and not the seanchan or anywhere else. Why else would all the forces in the world be drawn to the same place out of sheer weaving of the patter? Because they are need here.

And on more side note, I do believe the Shaido will make it to the waste. They may end up fighting a distraction force of trollocs, but not the main. And out of irony, they will be the remnant of the remnant that survive because they will not be involved with the planning of the LB.


mako0424: 2005-11-04

I like this theory, but JakoShadows, very nicely done.

You summed everything up well, and i had never even put the Shaido's return along with the remnant of a remnant together until u said it.

It makes excellent sense though. and the irony is laughable at the least.

i also agree most channeling will be done by Aes Sedai and good Asha'man at Shayol Ghul.

Bryne isnt going to leave Egwene, even after she secures Tower, he is going to be her new Tower Guard Captain or whatever, and they are leading a huge army remember, while the Novices and Accepted can protect the Tower well enough, using large circles.

Mat will Lead the Band AND the Seanchan. hes a the best general around and Prince of the Ravens. he'll also be using Damane, but i think battles will rage throughout Randland, with most forces using weapons, and only a few channelers, Dreadlords leading armies, and a few scattered Aes Sedai, Asha'man, Kin, Windfinders, or Wise Ones for back up.

Dont forget, the Shadow will pull all of its resources too, all Dreadlords, ie. Taim and is faction, black ajah, and probably a bunch more, including Draghkar, Myrddraal, and probably the Sharans, who will ride in opn huge elephants or dragons, wearing black outfits, and having tattooed faced channelers. (reference to LOTR, sorry, but true). I also think there will be a huge battle between channelers in T'A'R, where the Bore is.

but again speculation and prediction, although not a theory, fun none the less.


IkilledAsmodean: 2005-11-04

Frakture...I concede the point on Perrin. You're right there. That itself is mostly just speculation.

Several other thoughts occur to me, though.

-Far Madding is almost itching to be a sight of some major battle or turnging point. No channelers able to even sense the source there, which cuts out a huge amount of leverage for the Seanchan, and some of the Shadow's forces. There are quite a few large lightside forces howeer that dont rely on channelers at all. Same applies to the Ogier and their own homes.

-The Aiel Waste IS a part of "Randland" despite apparent other thinking. The Aiel have gone through too much to have any part of them, or their home, jsut sit idly by during the massive all-inclusive battle for the fate of the world. Besides, the Waste has been attacked before, and if the Shadow thinks the Shaido are looking to step over and assist Rand.....they will be attacked majorly. A very likely scenerio, I think.

-Black Tower mobile or not, Caemlyn currenlty holds the 2nd largest collection of channeling women in the entire continent to Tar Valon. And not by much either. Not to mention, what currently amounts to the armies of five major nations.


Hammar: 2005-11-05

ok guys, stop.

I wrote this THEORY to basically prove that:

a) The actual battling of the Last Battle will begin very soon. (I thought of much of this theory before KoD)

b) The Light will be adequately marshalled by the four great generals left in the world, plus Mat and Lan.

I wanted to prove that the four generals will all be fighting for the Light, and are all already moving towards positions that will give the Light a great advantage.

Trollocs will come pouring out of the blight, to ignore that, is to ignore the series. Rodel Ituralde will be there, as well as Lan, and Agelmar Jagad.

The only faults in my theory were about Mat, Gareth Bryne, and Bashere. Bashere and Mat are a great combination, everyone knows that, so I believe they will be near each other when Mat reveals his cannons, which will have to be at a huge battle. This is why I theorized that Mat would be close to the blight to fight the concentration of Trollocs there. Bryne does have a huge army at Tar Valon, and Egwene won't let him leave, but ALL BONDS ARE BROKEN WHEN TARMON GAIDON BEGINS.

You don't think Egwene will let Gareth Bryne and his army leave Tar Valon to fight against the Dark?

You don't think thousands and even millions of men will leave their homes to fight?

I do. And that was the base thought I used in this theory. The theory isn't a prediction, I am stating that the Last Battle will begin quite early in the next book and I'm theorizing that the generals will all be in place when it happens. That gives time for Rand and Co. to figure out how the hell to win.

It's a theory, not a prediction, and if anyone wishes to further discuss it, please stay to the topic.


JakOShadows: 2005-11-05

Maybe the channelers in Caemlyn will ride to save the WT. Because we know Egwene, will have to fight off the seanchan. Elayne is close enough she would know what is happening, so she may send aid in the way of channelers. And that would definitely smooth things over with her and the tower.


Traveller: 2005-11-06

What is going to happen in Seandar? The Blight touches there too, so surely the Seanchan will want to keep as much of their army there to fight the attack. I don't know, perhaps the only way for rand to convince them to help him will be to kneel to The Crystal Throne...Or not.


FraKcture: 2005-11-07

I really liked your last post, Hammar. I agree about all the great generals lining up to fight for the light. I agree that shadowspawn will come out of the blight. But as we could see, a large army of shadowspawn was also able to attack Rand quite far from the blight. Did they come through a waygate? Brought by skimming (if that's possible)? I don't think they just sneaked their way there. Iturlade, Agelmar (& Lan), and Bryne should all be in good position to meet shadowspawn from the blight. But I still lean more towards Mat and Bashere fighting further from the blight; at least, at first. I think Mat must journey to the tower of Ghenji first. Of course, it's impossible to say how long that could take. It could only take a day if someone Traveled them there. Or it could take much longer.

One last point - you stated in your original theory that you think the next book could be around 2000 pages. I dunno about that, but let me say that you're not the only one who thinks the story still has a ways to go. I can't see it being wrapped up in another 700 or 800 pages. Does anyone think that the next book might not be the last one? I could easily see it going another 2000 pages as you say. Which could be 3 more books. I dunno. Jordan has shown a desire to draw the series out. (Which I have personally enjoyed.) I guess it depends on how detailed the raids from shadowspawn are. If these are mostly skipped over, perhaps he could wrap it up in one more book. But that might be disappointing.


JakOShadows: 2005-11-07

Well it depends on how he writes. I wouldn't mind if he didn't go in specific detail about the battles and just gave the overall strategy and what happened from character pov's. He does need to show step by step what happens with the raid at Shayul Ghul though, or else I will be pissed off.


Hammar: 2005-11-07

The next book will be the last book. Jordan has said this on more then one occasion. This sucks, and I think I will be very depressed after it is over, but Jordan said that he may write other novels/series regarding the WOT.

Jordan said that the next book will be the last one, even if it is 2000 pages.

Trollocs got to Rand through a waygate. He is putting more emphasis on guarding them now, and due to this I doubt there will be many other places, besides the Blight, that the Trollocs will come out and attack from. Granted ALL the ways won't be guarded, however with Elder Haman's help Rand will get most of them, and the attack will be concentrated on the Blight.


JakOShadows: 2005-11-08


I agree with you that the waygates will be guarded, but what if a thousand trollocs come through. I don't think that many trollocs can be stopped by an ogier. The only way would be to place both leaves on the outside, and even that isn't fool proof. But I assume it would work for a little bit. It just seems that no matter what, Rand will be hard pressed to prevent them from traveling by the ways, otherwise it would have been stopped by now.

And about the next book, the way he stresses it being 2000 pages if it has to, then I would believe it'll be darn close that, so I don't think we'll feel too cheated if he gives us that much to chew on.


Lord of the Dawn: 2005-11-12

I'm betting that sometime during the last book, Rand sends around some Aes Sedai/Asha'aman that are linked and armed with angreal to destroy the waygates. We've seen it happen before...

TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 43, Care for the Living

"A Waygate was destroyed once, less than five hundred years after the Breaking, according to Damelle, daughter of Ala daughter of Soferra, because the Gate was near a stedding that had fallen to the Blight. There are two or three Gates lost in the Blight as it is. But she wrote that it was very difficult, and required thirteen Aes Sedai working together with a sa'angreal."

So, with their new knowledge of linking to form circles up to 72, and with Elayne (who will be able to make angreal and sa'angreal soon) I'm sure that they would be able to do it without that much difficulty.


Fog and Steel: 2005-12-12

won't it simply be easier to remove both leaves and let the waygates die or ward them to kill shadowspawn ??


Anubis: 2005-12-13

**won't it simply be easier to remove both leaves and let the waygates die or ward them to kill shadowspawn ??**

yup thats the plan