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t Was Moridin, And He Isn't Ishamael

by Karthi Ambati: 1998-06-07 | Not yet rated

Before Winter's Heart - Archive Only: Who helped Rand in Shadar Logoth?

Personally, I think it was none other than Moridin who helped Rand. He can channel the True Source (from the Dark One) and the True Source can only be detected by the person who is holding it and by no others. Rand didn't feel Saidin when the "mysterious helper" disappeared that discounts Osan'gar who is one of the two Forsaken who appeared at the end of the Eye of the World and died. (Most likely Aginor. He refers to having helped create trollocs in the 6th book.) It couldn't have been Isam/Luc because although he has been seen to be a Dreamwalker in the 4th book he has shown no ability to be able to channel. Until he does I think that Moridin is the best possibility. After all, he does refer to plans with Moghedian and with Rand in the 7th. Oh, by the way, in case anyone wants to dream about Ishamael coming back,... Rand severed his (Ishamael's) connection to the Dark One... He can't come back unless the Dark One is completely free.
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 1998-06-07

Moghedien makes the comment that it takes awhile for the "tsa"(I think that is what it's called) to show up in the eyes if those that use the True Source. So who is Moridin?

2

Mosleth: 1998-06-10

Karthi Ambati wrote that Rand severed Ishamael's connection to the DO. I don't remember him doing that. He stabbed him with the damn sword (Callandor). Mixing with Asmodean are we ??? Excuse me if Im being rude, just protecting my theory about Moridin's identity. And just for the record about Osan'gar. Osangar cant channel Saidin and neither can any other man! Arangar, who is a man reincarnated in the body of a woman (Bathamael I believe), uses Saidar.

3

Pagemaster: 1998-06-14

To Mosleth--In response to your comments. Rand did cut off Ishamael from the Dark One. (This quote is from pg. 570, of the Dragon Reborn) "'I will not be undone. (I think this reffers to not being cut off from the Dark One, or not being severed) I cannot be defeated. Aid me!' (I think the "Aid me" might have something to do with Ishamael asking help from the Dark One, because right after he says it, that ball of blackness, more powerful than the Light of Callandor comes into his hands. Why hadn't he done that all along?) 'You are destroyed!' Rand shouted.Callandor spun in his hands. (Pay attention here) Its light roiled the darkness, _severed the black-steel lines around Ba'alzamon, and Ba'alzomon convulsed_. As if there were two of him, he seemed to dwindle and grow larger at the same time. 'You are undone!' Rand plunged the shining blade into Ba'alzamon's chest." Now, let's take a peek at when Rand cut Asmodean off from the Dark One: pg. 674, The Shadow Rising. "This would use his final strength. He formed it like a sword of Power, a sword of Light, and struck one with thesword, one with the imagined _wires_. Asmodean's eyes went wide, and he howled from the depths of horror like a gong, the Forsaken quivered. _For an instant, there seemed to be two of him, shivering away from each other then they slid back together." I don't think that these very similar events...cutting cords and wires with a Sword of Light are a coincidence...Ithink the same thing happened the second time as the first time. pg. 675, The Shadow Rising "'You Chosen gave your souls to the Dark One. You let him attach himself to you.' ___How many times had he replayed his battle with Ba'alzamon? How many times before he began to suspect what those black wires were___? 'I cut him off from the Dark One, Lanfear. I cut him off!'" You see, those black wires that he cut on Ishy and Asmo were the attachment to the Dark One. Without it, they are as vulnerable to the taint as anyone...and they are cut off,Mosleth.

4

Tamyrlin: 1998-06-14

I had to comment...if in the flesh you are cut off from the DO can he just reconnect you when you have died? Good Point David.

5

Pagemaster: 1998-06-20

Tamyrlin--Under my entry in this section, where I respond to Mosleth,you say "can't the Dark One just reconnect Forsaken when they die?" Can the Dark One sense who dies, or only those attached to him? After all, would he even know that it is possible to sever his connections? Remember, Rand severs Ishamael from the Dark One, and then later, when he is speaking to Demandred, he thinks that Asmodean betrayed him. If he resurrected Ishamael, and reconnected him, wouldn't he know that severing hisconnection was possible, and then have a suspicion closer to the truth with Asmodean? I'm not sure about any of this, but if the Dark One wasn't faking about not knowing about cutting him away from his servants, then Ishamael would have remainedunressurected. Looking under theories about Shadar Haran, maybe Ishamael's time of being the Dark One's 'Chosen One' was over and it was time for another (Shadar Haran), or maybe the Dark One's'Chosen One' has a constant soul like Rand/LTT. ? Somebody add something.

6

Tamyrlin: 1998-06-20

This is quite an interesting topic. Just to clarify, I brought up the question as a.. 'can' the DO do this. If he can't, Asmodean is completely out of the picture. If he can, then it really doesn't matter. Obviously, the DO knows when someone's connection is cut. Now as to if he knows when that person dies...good question. I think this will have to be discussed in depth in a different section. I would appreciate a well thought out, referenced paper on why yes or no in regards to the connection and if the DO can reconnect the person and if he knows when or if they have died.

7

Steven Amundson: 1998-06-27

In a theory on who helped Rand the theory RE:RE: It was Moridin, and He Isn't Ishamael by the Pagemaster David Petty he said something about cutting black cords when Rand was battling the Forsaken, and that when Rand cut a cord he severed the Forsakens link to the Dark One, severed his ability to let Saidin taint to run off them, i think that that was wrong. I think what was severed was the ability to use the true Power. I think that The Forsaken all have the ability to use True Power, and maybe some Truely dedicated darkfriends. Remember the begining of LoC with Demamdared on the slopes of Sayol Ghol, and the Dark One asked his if he would be Nea' blis? And if he would use Balefire? And then laid out a plan to Demandared that made him weep with joy? I think that the DO told D that he would make D nae'blis if he would would follow a certain plan, a plan that used Balefire, and if we remember Rands helper used balefire. I am not saying that other forsaken dont use ba! lefire, just that they dont use it with the ease that Rands helper had, a ease that would of come with permision from the DO. I think it was demandared, and assured that he would become Nae'blis helped Rand so that he would finnaly win, he saved rand in hopes of bringin him to the shadow, and if he was Nae'blis, he could extrackt a revenge, and he chanaled without Rand feeling it because it was the true power, and he was not afraid of using the true power because he hates rand so much.

8

Mosleth: 1998-07-01

I was wrong! OK! I idmit that. It seems like Im not perfect after all. Thuogh not far from it! It has to do with me not owning the books my self. But I still think Ishy is back. Can the DO resurect people not conected? Think of it they where in Telaranrhiod (in the flesh), does this cange any thing? Besides there was one major difference betwen Ishy and Ashmodean. Ishy was killed right avay, Ash lived until he was killed. Judgin from that I would say Ishy doesnt look that mutch like a traitor. And I dont get how he without beeing resurected could bee Shaidar(whats the difference)?? I STILL BELIVE ISHAMAEL IS MORIDIN!

PS: Who is that 'Chosen one'?