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ll the Proof You Need

by Brian Rice: 1999-03-18 | 3 out of 10 (4 votes)

Before Winter's Heart - Archive Only: Is Taim Demandred?

1.) In intro to LoC, when Mesaana is meeting with Semirhage, Greandal, and Demandred, Mesaana describes Demandred as hawk-nosed and of believing that Lew Therin "too often managed to scrape up luck" in the SAME paragraph(LoC, hardcover, p56-7). Later, when Taim tests Damer for the talent, the first guy he picks, and discovers that Damer can, indeed, learn to channel...'the HAWK-NOSED (emphasis mine) man muttered with a glance at Rand. "You seem to have LUCK enough for ten men."' Same paragraph (LoC, hard, p 89). Too much of a literary coincidence to ignore.

2.) Bashere has trouble recognizing Taim, which Taim brushes off by explaining he shaved.

3.) Taim's "so called Aiel" quote is suspiscious.

4.) Taim's fury at being "honored" by Rand as the first Asha'man. Furious with the pins, which he later gets rid of. Later, witness Lews Therin's ramblings about how Demandred and Sammael hated him the more honors he gave them.

5.) Lews Therin ranting about killing Sammael, "but Demandred first". Why would he say Demandred first if he didn't know where he was?

6.) Taim saying to Rand after Rand has a brush with insanity, "If you fail, everything fails". Not conclusive in and of itself, but there is nothing in that quote about saving the world or saving the Light, etc. But "everything fails" in context with the Dark One's plans failing if Rand loses it is much more meaningful.

7.) Taim conveniently showing up at the right moment to kill the Grey Man.

8.) Taim conveniently showing up at Dumai's Wells at the RIGHT moment, and shrugging it off with an "Oh, I happened to stop by in Cairhien to visit you and discovered you were gone, but SOMEHOW managed to follow you HERE without any help or clue". He must have had some insight from someone else, another Forsaken likely, what was going down and where.

9.) Taim's "almost" personality, regarding strength and honors, matches Demandred's as well. Also the "almost smile" mannerism. Lots of similar mannerisms.

10.) Taim sure does like making the Aes Sedai kneel at the end of LoC. The closest to a smile he's ever had. Given the Forsaken's contempt for modern Aes Sedai, this must be even more sweet.

11.) Taim seems to like using the Old Tongue a lot in giving titles, M'hael and the other titles he gave the Asha'men (see more below).

12.) Crown of Swords presents a couple more clues...the use of Old Tongue titles above is one, also...on p 84, hardcover, Taim tries to get Torval or Rochaid to accompany Rand to Cairhien. Then when he's leaving, Taim calls for "Gedwyn, Rochaid, Torval, and Kisman". Fast forward to Path of Daggers, p 571, when Taim arrives to announce that "Gedwyn, Rochaid, Torval, and Kisman" have deserted. Funny how some of Taim's apparent favorites run off, whatever happened in Altara. Another literary coincidence. (Also remember that Gedwyn was the first Asha'men Rand encountered at Dumai's Wells and tried to give attitude to Rand.) AND, remember that Gedwyn and Rochaid were given brand spanking new ranks, Storm Leader and Attack Leader (in the Old Tongue, of course). Also, they give Rand attitude throughout Path of Daggers before trying to kill him. Taim must not like losing his favorites.

13.) As for Taim/Demandred's knowledge of Dashiva--who is obviously Aginor/Osan'gar--he seemed surprised in Crown of Swords Rand picked him to be one of his guards. Maybe he didn't know who Dashiva really was at the time. But in Path of Daggers, when Rand tells Taim to add Dashiva to the list of deserters, Taim is surprised, then angered at the prospect of Dashiva betraying Rand. Perhaps he knows who Dashiva is now, and was furious with him for running off with his favorite Asha'men, and/or furious that Dashiva is interupting his/Dark One's plans.

14.) It has been pointed out that at the end of LoC that Demandred was at the Shayol Ghul while Taim was at Dumai's Wells, and the beginning of CoS showed Taim still with Rand, so Demandred couldn't be Taim because they're in two spots at once. Well, reread CoS closely, and you'll see the events in the Epilogue of LoC are REPEATED in more depth in CoS. In fact, Egwene's incident where she loses Moghedien are covered again all the way on p 167 hardcover! So it is obvious that the epilogue of LoC is out of sync time-wise with the beginning of CoS, so it is entirely possible--indeed PROBABLE--for Taim to be with Rand at Dumai's Wells before returning to the Black Tower, then stopping in the nearest phone booth on the way to Shayol Ghul to change back into his normal Demandred getup to kneel to the Dark One and ask, "Have I not done well?"

15.) The obvious reason Demandred is masquerading as Taim--if true--is to be close to Rand, and to "let the Lord of Chaos rule" by training a bunch of men who can channel and will eventually go insane. Perhaps to turn a few to the dark side and insulate them from the taint, too.

16.) Sammael seemed to think Demandred was "to the south", which he reflected on while in Arad Doman. This would put Tarabon to the south, with the Seanchen. But, geographically, Andor is also to the south of there, if a bit to the south-EAST. Demandred's like of using "proxies" can also describe the Asha'men, too.

17.) For those who would point out that Demandred would never let himself get caught by Aes Sedai, as Taim was in Saldaea, the theory is that Taim was himself until he got caught, then was freed by darkfriends, taken to a Forsaken, Semirhage, who milked him for every ounce of knowledge he had, then let Demandred know that info, and killed Taim. Then Demandred assumed Taim's disguise and knew enough to convince Bashere he was Taim, despite Bashere's doubts. Whew!
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 1999-03-18

"......um...okay, I will admit that with the facts presented here and the myriad of other theories I have seen about Taimandred, it is definitely possible. Although some of the points you made(5-8)were not as solid. Maybe it is because I believe RJ is a little more mischevious than this, but doesn't it seem to convenient? Wouldn't the better 'stock' be put in the idea that Taim was freed by darkfriends and willingly went over to the DO and then was put in Demandreds care. That he is a new Dreadlord? BTW, excellently done.