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ain.... the interactive cork?

by pointyman: 2002-12-16 | Not yet rated

Previous Categories: Rand and the Last Battle

I have read the theory about Fain being the Gollum-like wildcard at the Last Battle. Now we have this, "unwittingly sidestepped outside the pattern". To me' it looks indeed certain that Fain has a vital role to play in the LB, but in which manner?

How about this:

* Fain has sidestepped the pattern; therefore, his destiny is no longer in control of the pattern.

* Remember the rather lengthy debate on how the bore could be sealed a few weeks back. Many suggestions were made that souls or threads of the pattern could be used to seal up the Bore, which seems like a good idea.

BUT... if Fain is now outside the pattern, is he still in possession of a soul? Perhaps two, counting Mordeth, or perhaps an amalgamation. To me, it seems like there is definitely a soul there, albeit in some strange form.

Now... assuming for one instance that the souls of the Forsaken were in some way connected to the original sealing of the bore, and were not only caught up in the act of sealing but actually provided some of the substance of it. These souls were in the pattern, as active threads. Therefore, at some future date, the Wheel weaved them back into a different part of the pattern, and the bore was reopened.

Now to the Fain issue. If HIS soul (which has somehow sidestepped the pattern) were to be plugged into the Bore with a OP-based crowbar, could this be the way that the Bore is finally sealed? After all, if his thread is outside the pattern, it will be very difficult if not impossible to reweave it.

In addition to this, we have the nature of Fain/Mordeth. Pure hatred of the shadow, as bad as the shadow itself, mixed with a darkfriend personally touched by the DO. How does this mixture of evil react to the 'pure' evil of the DO? The answer to this is (obviously enough) in the wound in Rand's side. I remember a quote from Damer Flinn that he could not heal Rand, but that he could lock the two differing evils away so that they would fight each other, and leave him largely untouched. So the evil caused by the Shadar Logoth dagger fights the evil of Ishy's staff/Thakandar.

If this same sort of conflict were to be instigated by lodging Fain/Mordeth into the bore, would this lock away both evils away from the pattern into some sort of private pitched battle?

Please respond. All criticism will be politely ignored :P
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2002-12-16

Dizzying. Where to begin...we don't really know that the souls, or threads, of the Hundred Companions were caught up in the Bore. Actually, with Rand as an example, it would seem that LTT returned to be with the Heroes, and then was spun back out as Rand. Now, the idea concerning Fain and the DO cancelling each other out...maybe Rand reseals the prison with Fain inside, as you said, but I don't think that will be all Rand will have to do to win the LB...but I just don't see Fain equal to the DO, even though his powers are increasing. I have a quick question. Was Mordeth receiving "power" from Shadar Logoth, or do you believe he is independent of it?

2

Daishan: 2002-12-18

REALLY like this one, Pointyman :-)

As to Mordeth receiving power from Shadar Logoth or not, in my opinion Mordeth is what CAUSED Shadar Logoth. And we'd have to wait and see how Fain evolves to see if he's a match for the DO. Right now, he could almost be equal to Shaidar Haran I think. Please ignore all of this :-)

3

pointyman: 2002-12-19

I view Mordeth as the cause of the evil present in Shadar Logoth. I think the reason for his longevity is due to this evil sustaining his life, but the consequence of this was that he was bound to remain within the confines of Shadar Logoth, until he managed to encounter someone that he could infect (like he almost did with the three boys, and succeeded with Fain). If Mordeth turned Aridhol into Shadar Logoth, and is the source of all that alternate (as opposed to the DO) evil, why should he not have the same feelings towards the DO now? I am sure he is capable of creating another Shadar Logoth, given time and opportunity. So we have two instances of Mordeth/Shadar Logoth evil fighting/contesting with the DO's : -

* The wound in Rand's side, Thakandar steel contained by the evil of the Shadar Logoth dagger. The evil is locked away from Rand by the Ash'aman Flinn, but the two are constantly struggling against each other.

* The cleansing of the taint. What did Rand use to remove the stain of the DO's evil from saidin? He used something which is, in some ways, a polar opposite (though the true polar would be the creator) to offset the taint, and when brought into contact, they absorbed each other. Where did he get this idea? I suspect it was due to the nature of the wound in his side, perhaps a conversation with Flinn.

If the evil in Shadar Logoth can be used to neutralise a significant amount of the DO's essence/touch, why could Mordeth, as the source of that evil, not be considered to have either:

*a restraining effect (another seal on the bore)

or

*a neutralising effect on the DO.

While I accept that the latter is stretching it a bit, the first is certainly a possibility.

Tamrylin, it was not the souls of the hundred companions that I suggested were part of the seal... it was the Forsaken I was referring to, and we KNOW they were caught up in the bore. Whether they were just stuck, or as part of the actual fabric of the seal is open to conjecture, though I believe the latter to be more likely (from the 'hole in the pattern' analogy).

4

Callandor: 2002-12-22

Another reference of when SL evil is fighting the DO evil is in TEOTW when Rand and Mat go and meet Mashadar (sp) and the Trollocs are chasing them. The fogs arms sense the Trollocs, falter for a second, then strike **like vipers**. So its a VERY quick and brutal attack.

5

Shadow Bane: 2003-06-23

I agree that Fain will end up fighting the shadow. Now Fain hates the DO and Rand so isn't it possible the last battle could be between the Do, Fain and Rand? The evil of Shadar Logoth is a new power never seen in the pattern before.(RJ even said so)Fain is gaining evil powers similar to those of the DO, so I think it is possible Fain will become a new power, or maybe a new constant. If good is the white power, evil is the black then Fain will be the gray (did anybody get that?) I just think he is something new and because he is no longer in the pattern he will be a new power similar to the creator and DO.

6

Callandor: 2003-06-23

No. Wrong.

Fain wont be a new power. RJ has said that he is special to THIS Age alone. Plus, Fain is MORTAL! Hes not a power anywhere near the Creator or the DO. Hes a wild card. Thats it.

7

Anubis: 2003-06-24

only problem is that fain is as evil as the dark one, only somehow different. i think that fain is going to be a wild card, but a new constant... i think not.

8

crispyroach: 2004-02-13

Could Fain become kinda like Sauron? If you read the Simarillion, you know that Sauron wasn't the real ultimate evil, but was very dangerous the same. He started out as a servant, but became oh so much more.