oraine...A woman dead and gone
by lewstherin80: 2003-01-07 | Not yet rated
Hey. I have a thought as to Min's viewing concerning who we believe to be Moraine. Min has a viewing that Rand will "almost surely fail without a woman who is dead and gone". All over the world the dead have been seen walking from So Harbor to Andor and so on. If Moraine is truly dead then maybe she too will walk the world again. Dead and gone yet she still exists. We have not yet seen the dead walk so we do not know if they are mere echoes of the deceased or if they now exist on this physical plane. The Dark One is said to be the Lord of the Grave, and since his strength and his touch have grown stronger the barriers between life and death have been broken or are just beginning to break. For some reason So Harbor seems the be the first town to have an epidemic of the living dead. Another question I have which is somewhat irrelevant is why Masema was trying so hard to get Perrin to go to So Harbor? Maybe he knew of what was happening. A question for later. Min's viewing has taken on new meanings in this book. What if Moraine does come back and she gives information to one of the ta'veren as to how they will be able to free her. If so, then this book has taken on a new chapter in the battle between the light and the dark because this is a possibility I myself never even imagined. A woman dead and gone. Moraine will be back, and who can say what new abilities she will take on since she will no longer be bound by the constraints of life. Just a thought.
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Tamyrlin: 2003-01-08
I didn't think of this while I was reading, but Jordan can use this to bring Moiraine back...but not really bring her back...which would be a bummer, I want Moiraine to be alive. I don't know that Masema had a plan concerning the ghosts in regards to sending Perrin there. But we don't know who or what is behind the ghosts so we don't know what Masema might be planning. I wonder what part these "ghosts" will play. You are right, the question is can these ghosts interact on this plane or are they simply illusions? Could Shadar Logoth and Mordeth have something to do with the sudden appearance of all of these ghosts?
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lewstherin80: 2003-01-08
Hey again. I just realized I made a mistake as I was re-reading a few parts of the book. We have seen the dead walk. In chapter 29 as Mat, Tuon and Selucia head out on their shopping expedition, Mat has to jump out of the way to avoid them. Tuon and Selucia make a comment on how Mat must be practicing a dance, and as he goes to explain himself, he looks around and notices that the people he saw walking along the street just a second ago were no longer there. Obviously Toun and Selucia did not see them, but why had Mat? Did they see him? From his point of view they must not have. But then in So Harbor Kireyin said that the man stopped to look at him then turned and walked through the wall. In one we see the dead walk seemingly without seeing anyone, just staring straight ahead as if there is some purpose, some destination as to where they are headed. In the other the ghost looked at and actually noticed the living. In one we are led to believe that the walking dead are somewhat echo-like and in the other we see, or hear, of an awakening of some sort, as if they noticed those who now walk amongst them. Why the difference between the two towns? How long had So Harbor been troubled and when did Jurador's troubles begin? So far as we know So Harbor has been troubled for some time, long enough so that every single person who lived there had seen at least more than one apparition, while Mat walked into a town where there wasn't even a rumor of any type of starnge happenings. In Andor there is one servant who sees a ghost but is immediately ignored by Elayne. Then again in the prologue the woman who brings word of the attack on Dobraine says that she herself has seen Maringil walking the corridors of the Sun Palace. I guess these questions will be answered in time. I must think on this longer. I just had to let you all know the mistake I made on this theory of mine.
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WinespringBrother: 2003-01-08
Are you saying that these ghosts are the spirits of those who were devoured by Mashadar? And now freed with its apparent destruction? Very interesting if that is the case.
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Tamyrlin: 2003-01-09
I think the timing of bringing in the "ghosts" in such a large amount after Rand's destruction of Shadar Logoth...and the fact that souls could be taken...I wonder if Rand will see Liah's ghost? :) But, if so, then Moiraine wasn't one taken by Mashadar...so would she be out and about if she was dead?
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Uno: 2003-01-09
I'm pretty sure it's not the souls of those trapped by Mashadar. We've seen the ghost Lady Neilin, who died when the maid Elsie was little. How many noblewomen end up in Shadar Logoth? Besides, the maid said "died," not disappeared, as she surely would have said otherwise (COT, 269). We also have the ghost wife of the lord of So Habor (COT, 584). The townspeople apparently suspected that her husband had murdered her, which doesn't seem to indicate that she suddenly decided to got to Shadar Logoth.
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Uno: 2003-01-09
Also, the ghost of Lady Neilin show up before Elayne felt the effects of the events at Shadar Logoth, so I don't see how Mashadar could have been destroyed already.
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Anubis: 2003-01-11
well, shaitan is the lord of the grave, and as shaidar haran proves, he is walking around free, if not fully. so it is likely that this is a side effect of his being free, the dead not being able to find rest.
the reason that this is so wierd is that there is no previous indication that anything like this CAN actually happen. it has not happened in the AOL that we know of. maybe it is a shaidar haran specific side effect.
and on that note, i wonder if shaidar haran was trapped not in the bore, but in the seals themselves. when they broke he became more free, the part of the DO that was loosed can leave. that would explain his being bound to shayol ghoul, and not liking it.
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Frenzy: 2003-02-14
People said i was crazy when i said Moiraine would return as a ghost. And, to be honest, i meant it as a joke. Guess the joke's on me. And everyone who thought i was crazy.
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scion2: 2003-03-19
Well of course Moiraine will come back to help Rand in the end! But only when called back by the Horn (she is certainly heroic enough). the only thing i don't get is if Birgitte would break the rules concerning helping the living world, wouldn't Moiraine be very busy helping Nynaeve and Egwene etc. in T'A'R.
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1337ist Gary: 2005-02-13
Mat will command the armies of the dead at the last battle.
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KINGofWOLVES: 2005-10-28
i dont see matt commanding any ghosts to fight, and i dubl they would. remember, "Death is the realm of the Dark one" if anyy dead peope will be fighting, it will be for the shadow. Also, i think that as trange "bubbles of evil" become more common, it seems possible that there will be more and more strange occourances, and what beter way to make chaos by terrifying everyone so much they barely leave the house?
