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he Dark One Wants to Lose

by Anubis: 2003-01-15 | 3 out of 10 (4 votes)

Previous Categories: Plans of the Dark One

Alright, here goes. I think that the Dark one may WANT to lose the last battle. This is not because of any desire to "keep the game going" but rather was spawned by Cadsuane's comments that Rands victory may be as dark as his defeat. Now things to consider:

The dark one has been trying to keep rand alive. From the first book it has been clear that the Dark One could have had Rand killed quite easily. Thousands of Trollocs and some Black Ajah could have been sent to the two rivers and then problem solved. No more dragon and the last battle is over.

Also the DO could have sent the friggin Gholam at any time. The thing has been wasted on Mat. I mean come on. You know where Rand is. Its not like he has been hiding. Gate in the Gholam and let him go to work. So its not like the DO has changed his mind in keeping Rand alive. Also the scene in which moridin (debatible but not very) saves Rand from sammeal.

Instead the DO sends the Gholam after Mat. He ignores rand completely and sends one of his most powerful troops to fight, ironicly, the only one in the world that we have seen that can damage it.

The DO is very present in perrins life. His wife being kidnapped is not somthing i can think of the creator WANTING. Also what about Masema, with his insanity which is a known realm of the DO. And lets not forget the 50+ darkhounds shadowing Perrin. I dont think Rand has ever seen this much attention unless he brought it upon himself.

Now here is what i think the DO is trying to do. He wants to keep rand seperated from Perrin and Mat. The times when he has been the most human is when he was with them. As he has grown apart from them he has grown harder. Min helps but will probably not be enough. The DO is trying to win the war, not the battle, by striking indirectly at those that rand needs.

Crossroads of Twilight is full of them being kept apart. Fortunately the pattern is having them all meet with the seanchan, as the storm arives at their door. Maybe they will be able to unite and fight the last battle in time.

And remember. Moridin doesn't seem to care whether they win this time around. All he cares about is winning in the end.
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Tamyrlin: 2003-01-16

I think I would agree with your general hypothesis. The Dark One hasn't killed Rand, although a few Forsaken have attempted to, possibly even by direct orders from the DO. Why not? Why does the DO want Rand at the Last Battle? Does the DO believe that keeping Rand alive seems to just be creating more and more chaos? I am sure the DO wasn't too happy about the taint being cleansed. Maybe, if he kills the Champion, another would be raised by the Pattern, another unknown to the DO. This way, he knows where Rand is, and he knows how to push and prod him.


jaellon: 2003-01-17

My response here relates only to the use of the gholam, and not to Anubis' theory as a whole, which to me is definitely worth considering.

I may be mistaken, but my understanding was that the gholam had been preserved in a stasis box throughout the centuries since the breaking. It did not get released until Sammael discovered the stasis box.

At that time, Sammael was busy thinking he had a truce going with Rand (he didn't realize his mistake until it was too late). Sammael also had a number of henchmen in Ebou Dar searching for more (sa'/ter') angreal. Their job was being made difficult by Nynaeve, Elayne, Mat, and company, who were also searching there. It was my understanding that Sammael dispatched the gholam to eliminate them, allowing his henchmen greater freedom of movement.

Not only that, but until recently the Forsaken were largely left to their own devices. The Dark One's power was limited to giving them commands and letting them carry out the commands. It's not even certain that the Dark One even knew about the gholam (as powerful as he is, he is not omniscient).


Seeker: 2003-01-17

I think it goes a little like this. Before the cleansing, it didn't matter whether Rand lived or died. The dark one would win because the metaphysical balance was skewed. So keep Rand alive, he'll create chaos.

I think the agenda might have changed since the cleansing though. The shadow seemed to take a long pause after the cleansing, a little time to catch its breath. I think plans need to re-evaluated. I think Rand's in trouble.


Tigraine: 2003-01-17

That brings up a good point. It's off the subject, but still interesting. What's going to happen to those Asha'man sworn to the Shadow now that saidin has been cleansed? I would imagine that many of them went over to the Shadow for taint-protection...


Anubis: 2003-01-18

well the asha man are like any other group of people. cept that you have your peeps going over for protection. i seem to remember that their are thirty that Taim is teaching. so we can be sure that they are the biggest problem. Im sure that many idiots will go over to the shadow thinking that they will get eternal life (right, keep dreamin suckers) but i think that the biggest problem will come from the fact that they are a military organization and taim is their commander. He orders they do, and i don't think anyone knows that he is a darkfriend though rand and logian certainly have their suspicions.

Oh, and the ones who went over for protection. There stayin with the shadow. He does not like oathbreakers (well the ones toward him anyways) and is capable of hunting down everyone of them and making them pay, personally.


Callandor: 2003-01-18

That might not be so big of a deal. Remember we have Black Ajah Aes Sedai. And Saidar isnt tainted at all.

Plus if the Asha man who swore for protection, if they went back they would probably be killed very quickly and brutally. Remember the 2 Aes Sedai in TSR? And they were just telling vague things so imagine what the Asha man would get.


Darren: 2003-01-19

Jaellon was right about the gholam, it was not dispatched by Sammael for Mat, but for Elayne/Egwene/Nynaeve, and the other AS seeking out "his" ter'angreal.

The only "Chosen" whose plans seem to come directly from the Dark One are Moridin's.

What I wonder is whether this is the same Gholam used to kill Herid Fel. I doubt it.


Anubis: 2003-01-20

"He wants you as much as he wants her"

thats pretty much what the gholam said to mat. the point remains that rand is not being targeted by the thing specifically designed to hunt down important channelers.


Elder Haman: 2003-01-24

At one point the Forsaken are discussing Rand and one of them says that Ishameal said that the Dark One would almost rather have the Champion for the Light be turned to serve him than to break free... I think there must be some advantage- Moridin calls it "controlling the Fisher", but Moridin also say one can force the Fisher into the position you want if you don't control it. However, if you kill the Fisher it becomes an all out war of attrition. Ishamael then says that he only tried that once in desperation and failed - touching his side as if it pained him. I think the Black Sister sworn to Rand is right- Rand has to live if the Dark One is to break free.


Callandor: 2003-01-24

Ishamaels reference to the all out war of attrition is to when he tries to kill Rand by sheer force in TDR in the Stone. The ill effects are:... HE DIED :-).

Controlling the Fischer is what Ishy was doing in the first three books by guiding Rand to his own desires, not simply turning him to the Dark.


Nateosis: 2003-02-10

I think theres a few things to take into consideration. . . .a) Rand is TAVEREN! Rand has this incredible ability to win, no matter what the odds, and the Dark one HAS to know that. . . maybe he figures no matter what he throws at Rand, Rand'll find some way to conquer it anyway, so the DO doesn't wanna waste the time or effort. . . b) as for the dark one wanting to lose? Doubt it. . .Its a stretch, but maybe the DO is COUNTING on Rand to free him from his prison (as Rand is seeming to lean towards). . the DO seems like a pretty smart guy, and maybe he knew all along that Rand would somehow get the notion to Break the Prison in order to re-seal it. . .like i said, its a stretch, but its possible. . .maybe the DO even planted that "foundation" theory in Fel's writings?


HunterofTrollocs: 2003-04-13

I agree, Rand got the idea from Fel that to win the last battle, to seal the DO again, he'll have to start from scratch, witch means that he'll have to break the DO free. I think the DO is a pretty smart dude, also, and that is what he is counting on for Rand to do. Once he's free, he'll try and make sure Rand can't seal him again. I think that is why Rand is still alive.