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reaking of the seals

by Oatman: 2004-02-21 | 4 out of 10 (4 votes)

Previous Categories: The Nature of the Bore

Why hasnt the DO broken all the seals in the time that he has had?

As far as I can tell he either hasnt tried or hasnt had a chance to break them. Being made from cuendillar they are suppossedly imposible to break, but some have been broken which raises the question of how, for the first few, and how the rest were weakened. If the first ones to break had been weakened, someone would have felt the evil in them, as Nyneave and Elayne did with thiers before it broke.

So, as the DO hasnt corrupted any of the seals by the first book, i will asume he has been unable to.

I believe that the seals break in response to a major event in the books, and as the seals break, the DO is able to corrupt them in an attempt to escape before Rand is ready to face him.

The first broken seal was found at the bottom of tEotW, which i will assume broke from Rand draining the eye, a major event if i ever saw one.

The second 2 brake at the end of TGH, which i believe are the result of Mat blowing the horn, and Rand proclaiming himself as the Dragon Reborn.

Not having read the series recently Im going from memory when i say that iI believe ont breaks in the Stone of Tear when Rand draws callandor.

By this stage i believe the DO is corrupting the Seals, as the next one found, in rhuidian, is easy to break.

I believe that this seal would have broken when Rand proved himself car'a'carn, if not for the DO's interference with it, and all of the others at certain points as well.

In this way the DO may have hurt himself more than he intended, as rather than being freed sooner, as would have happened had the seals not been found, he has given Rand the choice of when he would like to face him.

Quotes supporting or destroying this theory would be appreciated.
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2004-03-07

I have a different understanding, but I agree that it was the event at the beginning of the first book that allowed for all of the seals to be broken. First of all, I think the taint was able to weaken the one power, over three thousand years, allowing for the escape of the two. But, I think the purpose of the Eye, and the pool of pure Saidin, was to protect the seals, by counteracting the taint coming through the tainted one power used to make the focal points. Once that power was used up in the Eye, the seal was broken, and the rest were substantially weakened, and the taint then took full hold of them and broke them down rather quickly. I don't think any other event really mattered, just the first, because the pool of pure Saidin was holding the taint at bay for all of the focal points.

2

Unicorn: 2004-03-07

I think that the DO has been working on the seals for 3000-odd years. going from one to the other trying this and that, and over that period he has weakened the seals. Tamyrlin could be right that, the draining of tEotW was what made the difference. What I find hard to believe is that the taint should have anything to do with the process, IMO that would mean that all Cuendillar or at least all cuendillar made by males should be weakening, I haven't seen anything to remotely suggest this.

AS for the timing of the revelations of weak or broken seals, I think that these are at the discrestion(sp?) of the author. Imagine the rather lame effect of a prologue ending : "In a large fortress in the deep south, a highlord, went to check the storage rooms and found, a small disk had somehow broken. Strange as there obviously had been no-one in the store room for years", We'd all know what it meant, but it would be an odd kinda standing alone statement. The observation though was brilliant

3

Callandor: 2004-03-07

Seals Status:

1. Found broken at the Eye of the World. (TEotW,Ch52) Moiraine shows the pieces to Siuan. (TGH,Ch5) (BROKEN)

2. Bayle Domon had one, intact, that he got from a shopkeeper in Maradon. (TGH,Ch9) It was taken by Turak. (TGH,Ch29) Moiraine found it after the fight, and it was broken by then. (TGH,Ch49) (BROKEN)

3. Turak had one. Moiraine found it along with (2). Also broken. (TGH,Ch49) (BROKEN)

4. Moiraine found one in the Stone of Tear, intact. (TDR,Ch56) In TFoH,Ch52, when they go down to the docks, Rand spots two casks with the two seals (#4 and #5) in them packed in wool for protection. (INTACT)

5. Moiraine found another one in Rhuidean, and made a scratch. She put it back in her pouch. (TFoH,Ch2) In TFoH,Ch52, when they go down to the docks, Rand spots two casks with the two seals (#4 and #5) in them packed in wool for protection. (INTACT)

6. Nynaeve found one in the Panarch's Palace, (TSR,Ch54), broken on the way to Salidar. (TFoH,Ch50) (BROKEN)

7. Mazrim Taim gives Rand one when he comes to Rand. He found it in a "decaying little farm in Saldaea. I stopped for water, and the farmer gave it to me. He was old, with no children or grandchildren to pass it on to, and he thought I was the Dragon Reborn. He claimed his family had guarded it for more than two thousand years. Claimed they were kings and queens during the Trolloc Wars, and nobles under Artur Hawkwing." Rand (or is it Lews Therin?) tries to destroy it, but Davram Bashere stops him. (LoC,Ch2) (INTACT)

I follow Tam's idea about them. Without the protection of the Eye, the seals were able to be broken, but not beforehand (which is why they lasted 3000+ years).

4

Darren: 2004-03-07

I always felt that Jordan's always identical wording of how cuendillar works pretty much flat out stated its weakness... cuendillar is immune "to any power directed AT it" Jordan never really deviates from that wording (although he's kind of notorious for kennings, so I might be reading too much into this)... for myself, I think the way that the seals have been weakened (and they were set BEFORE the DO's counterstroke, so I can't see any sense to blaming the taint) was by drawing power AWAY from them. very slowly.

Also, I think the DO doesn't want the seals to be broken until the time and place that HE decides.

5

Great Lord of the Dark: 2004-03-08

I like this line of thinking, that events break the seals. I can agree that the seals became breakable as a result of the Dark One's efforts. But I don't see how anyone could have smashed that first seal after the Eye was drained since Ishy was getting trounced by Rand and the other Chosen were out of commission. So let's see what kind of major events could feasibly trigger seal breakage:

Draining of the Eye

Blowing the Horn of Valere (two broke here)

Drawing Callandor (oops, no seal broke here)

Cleansing Saidin

Rand's death and rebirth (supposing it happens that way)

The opening of Rhuidean

That's a list of the major events that may be linked in prophecy to the Last Battle. There doesn't seem to be a strong time correlation between breakage and these events, but maybe some other aspect also affects that.

Why would the seal at the Eye seal break instead of another one at that moment? Why would Nynaeve's break when no event/battle took place? Does the seal break randomly, or only in the presence of a particular person, place, event, or outcome of events? At this point, the choice of which seal breaks appears to be random.

Or, is it because the Dark One had to know where they were? He could have guessed at one in teh Eye, and he could have known of Turak's. He did know of Domon's. Maybe he didn't know about the ones in Tear, Rhuidean? He could have known of the one in Tanchico, on public display, though hidden. And giving a broken seal to Rand wouldn't do, so that one has to stay intact. Maybe it's a plant to find out where Rand hid the others, like a tracking beacon?

6

Khaos: 2004-03-08

I agree with Darren that the only reason the seals are currently still intact is because that the way the DO wants it. But more than that I think I know why. RJ has very much led us to believe that these events have played themselves out before with the turning of the wheel of time that this isn't the first time the world has experienced the 3rd age. Well we know that the DO is eternal so one assumes that he remembers all those other turnings of the wheel, so in a way he knows what has gone wrong before and obviously doesn't want it repeated again. Couple this with Herid Fel's note that to rebuild you must clear the rubble, I think that the DO knows that as long as one of the seals is in place his prison cannot be made whole again. So he intends to leave the seals in place until such time as he is sure that his victory is assured, then he can brush them away without fear of making himself vulnerable.

7

charliec: 2004-03-08

I go with Darren on that

BTW is it my faulty memory or were some of the seals rock hard cuendillar again after breaking, and others rather weak and flimsy pieces?

8

Arbryan: 2004-03-08

I believe that Breaking the Seals is more symbolic and directly related to the events that are taking place. I believe the EoTW was one such event. I'm not sure whether it is a tally, or score if you will, between Rand and Shai'tan or if it is just to herald the coming of the Dragon Reborn...The EoTW is really the first formal declaration of the Dragon Reborn. His banner was there and so was a pool of Saidin that I'm assuming would have had to have been cleared away to get to the banner and horn (by a man that could channel) even if one of the Forsaken wasn't there tapping into it. Therefore, the events that symbolize the clash between the Good and Evil have major milestones. Each milestone breaks a seal, and each breaking of a seal represents a milestone.

The Seven Seals of the Bible and how they might relate to the WoT:

1) The white horse. The Antichrist comes forth. He has a bow, but no arrows are mentioned. A crown is given to him. He goes forth conquering and to conquer.

1*) Lews Therin Telamon, Lucifer. He is from the Two Rivers (bow), but not of the Two Rivers (no arrows). He receives the CoS. He goes forth conquering and to conquer.

2) The red horse. War. That they should take peace from the earth. He has a great sword.

2*) The Aiel Prophecy indicates that when the Stone of Tear falls they will leave the Three-fold Land at last. Rand gets Callandor.

3) The black horse. Famine. A day's wages for a day's food. Hurt not the oil and the wine.

3*) Rand sends Tairen army led by several High Lords to restore order and ease the famine in Cairhien. (TSR: Chapter 21). I'm having trouble with the Oil and Wine and can't find the export information for different places. I thought Mayene, Tear, and Illian all had the same export and it was either Wine or Oil. I could be off, but I'll have to look further to be sure.

4) The pale horse. Death. One-fourth of the earth's population is killed. Hell followed with him. Kill with the sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts.

4*) The Aiel Prophecy indicates that a remnant of a remnant shall he save. The references to killing with death and the beasts I believe are directed at the DO (Death being Moridin, and the Beasts being Trollocs, and possibly even Myrddraal).

5) Martyrdom. They that were slain for the Word of God and for their testimony. They were given white robes.

5*) I think that this might be one of two things. Either the Whitecloaks, or less obvious the Prophet of the Lord Dragon. Then again, it could be both, or neither.

6) Great Earthquake. The sun black and moon as blood. The stars of Heaven (angels) fell. Heaven departed as a scroll. Every mountain and island was moved. Multitudes hid. The great day of His wrath is come.

6*) “For he shall come like the breaking dawn, and shatter the world again with his coming, and make it anew.” And “Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.” (Karaethon Prophecy). Red on Black, Sun and Moon, eclipse, the shadow blocking out the light. The great day of wrath is most likely referencing the Last Battle, or more specifically the day that the DO is going to do whatever it is he is going to do to escape his prison.

7) Silence in Heaven. About the space of half an hour.

7*) Just a guess, but I think that this is going to be the last Seal breaking and it will probably create a sort of silence throughout the LB as both sides try to understand what has just happened.

I'm sure that this is neither the beginning nor ending of the symbolism, but it is a beginning...

9

Cossack: 2004-03-08

With regards to Tamyrlin's post, I must ask, How did Rand drain the Eye, and what were the consequences of it except for the seals being weakened. Were there any?

10

Anubis: 2004-03-08

Part 1: correct me if im wrong... **looks at callandor** but the seal at TEOTW was found broken, but when lan hit it with his knife his knife broke. So are the seals only weakend until they are broken? once the seal and all its sealy goodness is gone then it reverts to plain old cuellendar. So the cuellendar itself is not being weakend.... rather it is having a force applied to it that makes it weak only so long as the force is applied to it. What this means i have no clue. do the other seals behave this way?

Part 2: (theory) The seals are not being directly attacked by the dark one. The seals will not break if they are left alone by themselves. The dark one is just weakening them. He cant actually break them without someone actually applying force to them. He just makes it possible for the force to break them. Once the force needed to break the seals is applied the dark one no longer does... whatever he is doing.

Part 3: The seals have not always been breakable. Part of the reason for the trolloc wars was to provide enough of a distraction for the seals to be scattered. The dark one is interested in breaking free... at the right time. He doesnt want rand to determine when the seals are broken, he wants to break them self at the **johny depp voice** opportune moment.

So does rand of course. That is the reason for the attacks on bashere etc.

Final: so in response to your question. The dark one has been unable to break the seals. He has not tried because it has not been a priority and he does not want the forces of the light to know that he needs and wants the seals in his possession.

11

Darren: 2004-03-08

umm.....

come again? Read something more than the bible... in Gnosticism, the Dragon is the term for "the angel of Dawn" which is why LTT is "Lord of the Morning" NOT Lucifer.

12

Arbryan: 2004-03-09

Sorry, thought we were discussing the nature of the Seven Seals, not Gnosticism...

Since we're discussing the Seven Seals here that's the Google search I did, “Seven Seals”. Thus the reason I found a site that had information on the 7 seals of the Bible. It became quickly apparent that there are a lot of similarities, which I tried to point out. Sorry you got stuck on one aspect and failed to take in the others.

RJ has stated himself that he reverse engineers stories from religions, legends, myths, etc. and reconstructs them with bits and pieces of each thrown together to create what he wants. This information was just offered as ONE source of what probably has MANY components.

So Let's look at this as a mutated religious compilation and see what we get... In the book of Revelation the devil is referenced as a Dragon, so logically we can conclude that Lucifer is the Dragon Lucifer also means ”one who carries light” so we now have the Dragon who carries Light. Now, as you so politely pointed out the Dragon is the Gnostic term for “angel of the dawn” which you believe is the same thing as “Lord of the Morning”. So we end up with the Angle of dawn who carries Light is the Lord of the Morning, or The Dragon who carries Light is the Lord of the Morning. Now add in another couple religions, and a few more myths, plus some cryptic little story only spoken verbally in the village of Yashmot, Africa (yes, it's just a made up place :) and you can finish the Jordan'ian exorcise of reverse engineering.

13

Foxwolf: 2004-03-10

The first part of Fels note says "Belief and order give strength."

14

Jiana: 2004-03-10

I think it is possible that all of the seals have been weakening over time, and that the draining of the Eye was just the straw that broke the camel's back. I am sure everyone remembers when Rand was locked in the box (ONLY one of the most tense parts of the series). He was constantly pushing and pushing against his shield to break free of it. What if the DO has been doing the same thing at the seals? Constantly pushing and pushing at them with his will, with the certainty that they will eventually break. He has this certainty because of the taint... I like the idea that the taint played a crucial part in the weakening. To weaken the One Power itself could have been the true purpose of the taint all along, and not just revenge on LTT. When Rand was in the box, feeling along the edges of the shield, he felt six distinct points (obviously the indication of the Aes Sedai's focus on the shield) much the same as the DO must feel (or have felt) seven distinct points. If you direct enough force at something for long enough it will eventually break. I think that's what the DO's plan was before events outpaced him and he once more had his lackeys to help him out.

15

Zaela Sedai: 2004-03-10

I was always under the impression that the seals broke down over time because they did not contain both saidar and saidin. The taint could have been part of it I suppose, but I think the fact that saidar was missing was the biggest weakness of the seals.

16

dragonsceptor: 2004-03-10

***I was always under the impression that the seals broke down over time because they did not contain both saidar and saidin. The taint could have been part of it I suppose, but I think the fact that saidar was missing was the biggest weakness of the seals.***

why wouldn't the seals have been made with both Saidin and Saidar? They were made in Age of Legends when men and women linked. Having read the strick at shayol ghul, I know what's coming next. Yes, the AS were divided between men and women and that is the reason why the 100 companions were all men. However, there is no indication that the seals were not made prior to this schism. There were initially two plans, ie seal the boar and make the choedan kal. It would make sense that for either to hope for success, they would have initially had both men and women. You may be right that the seals were created only using Saidin. However, I don't think we can assume that is the case.

17

Davian93: 2004-03-10

****But, I think the purpose of the Eye, and the pool of pure Saidin, was to protect the seals, by counteracting the taint coming through the tainted one power used to make the focal points****

I agree completely. The seals are essentially the focus points for tied off weaves of saidin blocking off the bore. While the OP originally used to make the seals was pure, the power used to maintain them (after the draining of the Eye) much like that of the Ways was tainted and therefore would have a slow negative effect on them.

To me, this leaves a couple questions. How are the "seals" tied off to prevent unraveling and what sort of power can weaken cuendillar?

18

crispyroach: 2004-03-11

The idea that events break the seals has the biblical book of Revelations to back it up. (as seals open in the book, major events occur). The Eye was the first event to start the decay of the other seals. On the contrary, the seals breaking do not always coincide with major events. from later books.

As to what the seals are tied off to: Perhaps the Companions were only able to partially seal the bore, and so set up the seals to decay and release the DO at the right moment. (ie the LB, and the time that Rand would be strong enough.) They would know this through Fortelling, and could be the source of all the knowledge of the Prophecies of the Dragon. And this could also be a part of the reason that Rand has a past-self in his head...

Does this make any sense?

19

Oatman: 2004-03-11

To explain why the seals have not broken at other major points in the book, as i explained in my original theory, but which people have ignored or forgotten, is that the Dark One forcing agaist them corrupted them, making them easily brakable but also preventing them braking at the moments they were supposed to, which is why i believe some broke for no apparant reason and others didn't brake when a major event happened.

20

Anubis: 2004-03-12

this is incredibly frusterating. the seals are not weak because of how they were made. they are not weak because of the taint (they were made before saidin was tainted, and as far as we know cuellendar does not use the one power so the taint would have no means of access)

although i do not see why this is an issue because of the fact that after the seals are broken they revert to being just as strong (well the fragments) as they were when they were first made.

21

Davian93: 2004-03-13

****the seals are not weak because of how they were made. they are not weak because of the taint (they were made before saidin was tainted, and as far as we know cuellendar does not use the one power so the taint would have no means of access)****

The cuendillar seal is only the focus point for the actual seal on the DO's prison, not the literal seal itself. The seals have to be tied off weaves of Saiden maintained over the past 3,000 years.

Yes, the seals were made before saidin was tainted and the Eye could have been the pure saidin that was used to maintain them as opposed to the rest of saidin which was tainted. After the Eye is drained the seals start to weaken as the DO's presence affects them. Bottom line, we dont know why they weakened for sure and there is no proof either way.

22

Darren: 2004-03-13

This information was just offered as ONE source of what probably has MANY components

Exactly, but since Gnosticism is a form of Christianity, I figured they MIGHT be relevant to a discussion on John.

And yeah, I can read latin and know what Luci fer means; I still don't see any evidence for comparisons between Rand and LF....

1) Rand is mortal

2) Rand is not going to effect a revolt against the order of things, a la Paradise Lost, nor unhappy with the Creator

3) except for the seven seals, what do most of your points have to do with the story at all?

"1) The white horse. The Antichrist comes forth. He has a bow, but no arrows are mentioned. A crown is given to him. He goes forth conquering and to conquer. "

and this has what to do with the story? Perhaps Birgitte is the Antichrist; she has a bow.

"2) The red horse. War. That they should take peace from the earth. He has a great sword.

2*) The Aiel Prophecy indicates that when the Stone of Tear falls they will leave the Three-fold Land at last. Rand gets Callandor"

hmm... the red horse as a symbol for the Aiel, who don't ride horses... don't see it

) The black horse. Famine. A day's wages for a day's food. Hurt not the oil and the wine.

3*) Rand sends Tairen army led by several High Lords to restore order and ease the famine in Cairhien. (TSR: Chapter 21). I'm having trouble with the Oil and Wine and can't find the export information for different places. I thought Mayene, Tear, and Illian all had the same export and it was either Wine or Oil. I could be off, but I'll have to look further to be sure.

but this happens before another seal is broken...

really I could go on, but why bother... I'll admit that Jordan references the bible (one of the inscriptions is even straight John, about how the moon was as blood) however, my point was that seeing it as a christian allegory was an error.

23

estel: 2004-03-17

What are the seals exactly holding? As we know the prison of Dark one is not something physical. He is said to have been trapped in the pattern itself. So before saying anything about the breaking of seals we must discuss how the seals have held him.

24

solomonrex: 2004-03-18

Let's make this distinction first:

The seals on the bore cannot be seen- the cuendillar 'seals' are all just focal points for those weaves. They aren't even angreal. The cuendillar might be breaking after the DO has broken through the actual seals.

The Forsaken were free prior to the Eye being drained- so some levels of the seals were already broken prior to the Eye being drained and the cuendillar being broken. Perhaps whether the cuendillar is intact doesn't matter at all. Perhaps they only break after the fact.

25

Davian93: 2004-03-18

****What are the seals exactly holding? As we know the prison of Dark one is not something physical. He is said to have been trapped in the pattern itself. So before saying anything about the breaking of seals we must discuss how the seals have held him. ****

The DO's prison is a hole in the pattern between the world of Randland and the DO. This "thinness of the pattern" is only detectable at Shayol Ghul the only physical point in Randland where the Bore can be detected. When Lanfear and Beidomen discovered a new source of power during the AoL, they drilled through at Shayol Ghul because of the thinness at that point. This point is physically no closer than any other in the world to the actual Bore. The Bore, while large enough for the DO to affect world events (i.e. the never ending summer) is not large enough for the DO to escape from. It is similar to a bunghole on a keg of beer. The DO can stick his finger out and touch world events but cannot actually leave through the hole. The cuendillar seals are the focus points of the actual seals of saidin sealing off the Bore. If the cuendillar seals are broken the weave maintaining the seal over the bore itself is unraveled. Therefore while the cuendillar seals are only focus points of the actual seal, breaking them is the same as breaking the actual seal.

26

Anubis: 2004-03-19

im agreeing with oatman. the seals are nifty and as good as they could be... the reason the cuellendar seals are weak is because the dark one is pushing against his ethereal seal. the road goes both ways. pushing against the ethereal weakens the focus points, and smashing the focus points weakens the ethereal. however, once a focus point is "destroyed" i say destroyed in the sense that it is no longer a focus point because the physical seal has been damaged enough, the seal is no longer under the dark ones pressure and is normal cuellendar.

27

solomonrex: 2004-03-19

I just wanted to note that the _characters_ of WoT believe that breaking the cuendillar is the same as breaking the seals, but there are many reasons to think that they don't understand the seals fully. So I don't think that will turn out to be the case.

28

Arbryan: 2004-03-22

While re-reading the posts here I had a thought. What if the Seals are being used to hide the origin of the weaves that create the patch on the Bore?

We might have some foreshadowing to this concept when Moiraine uses her stone to reflect her weaves so that others can't tell where they originated. What if that is how LT and the 100 created the patch, and why the DO can't just get past it? He has to find the origin of the weave to unravel that thread in the patch. This might also destroy the nature of the Seal (as in cuendillar), but I'm not trying to make the connection between the two – just to identify the original use of the Seals.

Lots of mays and mights, but I think it has merrit.

29

Flinn Sedai: 2004-10-22

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but i think that the seals need to be broken for a different reason than most. It is said that the Creator does not take a direct hand in things. Most things are relatively minor, so he needs not concern himself with that. However, the DO breaking free would be something big enough to get his attention. I think that the reason that the seals havent been broken, is because once that is done, the Creator can step in and reseal the Bore properly. To repair we must tear down, or some such (I'm looking to you for the Fel note, Callandor ;)). Herid Fel was operating under the assumption that only the Creator could repair the Bore, and then he figures it out. So he must have come up with some way to get the Creator to intervene. Anybody who has the relevant quotes, please add, as im far from my books (300 miles or so).

30

Callandor: 2004-10-22

**It is said that the Creator does not take a direct hand in things. Most things are relatively minor, so he needs not concern himself with that. However, the DO breaking free would be something big enough to get his attention. I think that the reason that the seals havent been broken, is because once that is done, the Creator can step in and reseal the Bore properly.**

It is a principle of the world of Randland: the Creator does not interfere. Ever.

**Herid Fel was operating under the assumption that only the Creator could repair the Bore, and then he figures it out. So he must have come up with some way to get the Creator to intervene.**

The Seals were placed by man. Where was the Creator in the AoL, when the hole that let the Dark One touch the world, was present for over a century??

31

Flinn Sedai: 2004-10-25

****Herid Fel was operating under the assumption that only the Creator could repair the Bore, and then he figures it out. So he must have come up with some way to get the Creator to intervene.**

The Seals were placed by man. Where was the Creator in the AoL, when the hole that let the Dark One touch the world, was present for over a century??**

What i was saying in that part was that there has to be some way to get the Creator to interfere... Maybe the Creator thought that the AoLers could handle it. The fact remains that Fel assumed that only the Creator could properly reseal the Bore, and then he found out how, and was killed. Those sequence of events leads me to believe that he actually did discover how to get the Creator to inferfere and reseal the Bore. But hey, thats just using that crazy "logic" thing. And who needs that?

32

Callandor: 2004-10-25

**What i was saying in that part was that there has to be some way to get the Creator to interfere... **

No, there isn't.

Rule 1 of Randland: humanity is on it's own.

**TITLE: Crossroads of Twilight

CHAPTER: 24 - A Strengthening Storm

*The Creator had made the world and then left humankind to make of it what they would, a heaven or the Pit of Doom by their choosing.* The Creator had made many worlds, watched each flower and die, and gone on to make endless worlds beyond. *A gardener did not weep for each blossom that fell.* For an instant, he thought those must have been Lews Therin's reflections. He had never gone on that way about the Creator or anything else that he recalled. But he could feel Lews Therin nodding in approval, a man listening to someone else. Still, it was not the kind of thing he would have considered before Lews Therin. How much space remained between them?**

The Creator never interferes. Ever.

Here is all that the Creator does: he creates. That's it. He makes a world were there is the ~possibility~ for anything (well, almost anything, but you know what I mean ;)) to happen at humanity's ~choice~.

The Creator will not step in and discipline humanity be saving them and then leave say "Don't do that again!" Humanity is always upsetting the Pattern (the great plan of the world), and there are ways that are programmed to correct the balance (the Hereoes of the Horn).

**The fact remains that Fel assumed that only the Creator could properly reseal the Bore, and then he found out how, and was killed.**

No, that is your interpretation of it. Fel could've easily been saying "Break the seals so you can seal the prision correctly"; not break the seals so the Creator will seal the prision.

As I said, in the AoL, the Bore in the Dark One's prision was open for more then a ~century~; with no Creator interference. Mankind sealed it up. Mankind will have to do it again this time.

**But hey, thats just using that crazy "logic" thing.**

Crazy logic indeed.