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Terez 05-20-2011 06:22 AM

Ask Us Anything about WoT. There Are No Dumb Questions. No, Really.
 
I think we need one of these threads now. You can ask any question about anything and someone helpful person will be along to answer it shortly. We know lots of stuff, and we enjoy showing off our knowledge, as anyone who was at JordanCon 2010 knows well. Dragonmount has a similar thread, but one advantage we have is that this software allows you to search a single thread.

Edit: Thanks to Felix for demonstrating early on in the thread that there are some people's answers it's usually best to ignore. ;)

FelixPax 05-20-2011 07:04 AM

A Wool-Buyer Guards Tale; Valan Luca questions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 149676)
I think we need one of these threads now. You can ask any question about anything and someone helpful person will be along to answer it shortly. We know lots of stuff, and we enjoy showing off our knowledge, as anyone who was at JordanCon 2010 knows well. Dragonmount has a similar thread, but one advantage we have is that this software allows you to search a single thread.

  • Where has Valan Luca visited?
  • When has Valan Luca visited, each place in question?
  • Who has Valan Luca met along his journey? Confirmed and believed to have? (Degrees of certainty)


Wool-Buyer's Guard: "Story of the Dragon"


Quote:

“I heard a story once,” Mat said slowly, “from a wool-buyer’s guard. He said the Dragon would be reborn in mankind’s greatest hour of need, and save us all.”

“Well, he was a fool if he believed that,” Perrin said firmly. “And you were a fool to listen.” He did not sound angry; he was slow to anger. But he sometimes got exasperated with Mat’s quicksilver fancies, and there was a touch of that in his voice. “I suppose he claimed we’d all live in a new Age of Legends afterwards, too.”

“I didn’t say I believed it,” Mat protested. “I just heard it. Nynaeve did, too, and I thought she was going to skin me and the guard both. He said—the guard did—that a lot of people do believe, only they’re afraid to say so, afraid of the Aes Sedai or the Children of the Light. He wouldn’t say any more after Nynaeve lit into us. She told the merchant, and he said it was the guard’s last trip with him.”

“A good thing, too,” Perrin said. “The Dragon going to save us? Sounds like Coplin talk to me.”


What kind of need would be great enough that we’d want the Dragon to save us from it? ” Rand mused. “As well ask for help from the Dark One .”

“He didn’t say,” Mat replied uncomfortably. “And he didn’t mention any new Age of Legends. He said the world would be torn apart by the Dragon’s coming. ”


The Eye of the World, Chapter 3 "Peddler" -- Rand point of view, with Mat Cauthon, Perrin, Ewin


Tangent: This particular chapter is literally LOADED with foreshadowing.

E.g.: Rand does later "ask" for the Dark One's help->during a fight with Asmodean in Rhuidean.

If one looks at WHERE Valan Luca has traveled, WHEN he has traveled, it sure does seem that 'war follows' his footsteps.

Aiel Waste, Shara (Lands Beyond), Tear, Illian, Murandy, Cairhien, Tar Valon, Shienar, Arafel, Kandor, Saldaea, Arad Doman, Almoth Plain, Tarabon, Amadicia, Ghealdan, Altara...

And coming soonto Murandy, Andor, Tar Valon?



Is Valan Luca possibility a 'Dragon'?

Notice I expressly did not ask nor claim that there is only one Dragon. Why? I do suspect RJ created a multiple headed Dragon. Not the Dragon, but seemingly four Dragons?


If there is only one true Dragon, has Valan Luca visited Seanchan continent previously or not?

Rand al'Thor did not visit Shara, and yet War came to that empire... seemingly violating the Wool-Buyer Guard's tale of a Dragon.


Regarding the Wool-Buyer Guard's tale, I do find it interesting that Rand al'Thor, Mat Cauthon and Nynaeve al'Meara each have heard the tale.



All in all, this Wool-Buyer's Guard tale has been underestimated by fans who write in various forums in my view, far too long.


Who is Valan Luca, really?

FelixPax 05-20-2011 07:16 AM

Will Mat Cauthon speak the Dark One's real name?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 149676)
I think we need one of these threads now. You can ask any question about anything and someone helpful person will be along to answer it shortly. We know lots of stuff, and we enjoy showing off our knowledge, as anyone who was at JordanCon 2010 knows well. Dragonmount has a similar thread, but one advantage we have is that this software allows you to search a single thread.

Will Mat Cauthon speak the Dark One's true name, before the last page is written in AMoL book?


Where might one get an idea, at first, that Mat Cauthon might speak the Dark One's real name?

Quote:

“Old Bili named the Dark One. I’ll bet you didn’t know that.”

“Light!” Rand breathed.

Mat’s grin broadened. “It was last spring, just before the cutworm got into his fields and nobody else’s. Right before everybody in his house came down with yellow eye fever. I heard him do it. He still says he doesn’t believe, but whenever I ask him to name the Dark One now, he throws something at me.”

“You are just stupid enough to do that, aren’t you, Matrim Cauthon?” Nynaeve al’Meara stepped into their huddle, the dark braid pulled over her shoulder almost bristling with anger. Rand scrambled to his feet. Slender and barely taller than Mat’s shoulder, at the moment the Wisdom seemed taller than any of them, and it did not matter that she was young and pretty.


The Eye of the World, Chapter 3 "The Peddler" - Rand point of view, with Mat Cauthon, Perrin, Nynaeve al'Meara

What are the chances Mat might say the Dark One's name in the Tower of Ghenjei? As a threat, if they attack or harm this party?

Yes, I suspect Mat Cauthon is not done with the Aelfinn or Eelfinn just yet....

The Unreasoner 05-20-2011 10:56 AM

Am I reading the wrong books or is Felix out of his mind?
Haha, kidding, world needs madmen.

Seems like it's possible for some tedious questions though, a lot of work for the answer without much payoff.

Terez 05-20-2011 12:40 PM

Based on experience I'd say it's unlikely. I don't take Felix seriously so I'm not going to stress over his questions. He thinks he knows everything anyway. ;)

Edynol 05-21-2011 10:41 AM

Well to answer one question, Mat has spoke the DO's name. After Rand killed Ishy in Tear.

And here's a question. I already know the answer, but alot of people miss it. What is Elyas' wolf-name?

Zombie Sammael 05-21-2011 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edynol (Post 149804)
Well to answer one question, Mat has spoke the DO's name. After Rand killed Ishy in Tear.

And here's a question. I already know the answer, but alot of people miss it. What is Elyas' wolf-name?

It's Longtooth or Longclaw, something like that, unless I'm thoroughly mistaken. In which case you can all point and laugh.

Rand al'Fain 05-21-2011 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael (Post 149806)
It's Longtooth or Longclaw, something like that, unless I'm thoroughly mistaken. In which case you can all point and laugh.

It's Longtooth.

Heinz 05-23-2011 04:34 PM

Through all of the reading and lurking I've done on these boards, which I've done an extensive amount for years compared to very little posting, I have come to the conclusion that Felix does one of two things. The first possibility is that he views the world and these books through a different set of lenses. The second is that he purposely twines some of the most obscure facts and quotes together based on circumstal (at best) to non-existant links (at worst) to create ridiculous statements and theories.

Since reading through his theory of Mat being the true Dragon, I have come to the conclusion of the latter possibility, and he is just laughing off his rocker at the idea of everyone trying to wrest all these in-depth meanings from a set of fantasy novels. For the record, though I don't post much, I read and think about my own ideas and theories, so I'd be included among 'everyone trying to wrest meaning'.

Zombie Sammael 05-23-2011 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heinz (Post 149979)
Through all of the reading and lurking I've done on these boards, which I've done an extensive amount for years compared to very little posting, I have come to the conclusion that Felix does one of two things. The first possibility is that he views the world and these books through a different set of lenses. The second is that he purposely twines some of the most obscure facts and quotes together based on circumstal (at best) to non-existant links (at worst) to create ridiculous statements and theories.

Since reading through his theory of Mat being the true Dragon, I have come to the conclusion of the latter possibility, and he is just laughing off his rocker at the idea of everyone trying to wrest all these in-depth meanings from a set of fantasy novels. For the record, though I don't post much, I read and think about my own ideas and theories, so I'd be included among 'everyone trying to wrest meaning'.

To answer your question: the banana, but only if it's after midnight.

looqas 05-24-2011 03:58 AM

- Who was gholam's master before Mat 'killed' it and why the master wanted Mat dead before all the others?

- Is Moridin's lair new base or has he used it every time he has been free since the sealing of the Bore?

- In the beginning of the series a big value was put to the Song, almost implicating that the Song will be the key to winning the Last Battle, but lately it has almost been forgotten. What's the role of the Song in all this? My own speculation is that the Song will be vital in post-LB. Thoughts?

Terez 05-24-2011 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by looqas (Post 150009)
- Who was gholam's master before Mat 'killed' it and why the master wanted Mat dead before all the others?

Sammael - see ACOS: Insects

Quote:

Is Moridin's lair new base or has he used it every time he has been free since the sealing of the Bore?
We don't know. It could be either, especially since he seems to like hanging out in his penthouse overlooking the Bore.

Quote:

In the beginning of the series a big value was put to the Song, almost implicating that the Song will be the key to winning the Last Battle, but lately it has almost been forgotten.
It's not been forgotten - every noob thinks the Song will be vital. Problem is, there is no song. Or rather, 'the Song' is a remembrance of seed-singing. When the Tinkers first broke off from the Da'shain Aiel, they said they wanted to find 'the old songs', plural. It may be that seed-singing will return, but it seems to require the Nym, and there are no more Nym. Perhaps it can be used by Aiel with Nym in some way - there is the weird thing about male Aiel not singing unless it's in battle or a chant for the dead - but we don't know.

looqas 05-24-2011 05:55 AM

I beg to differ about the gholam's master, because gholam says to Mat:

Quote:

"You should be proud", it whispered. "The one who now controls me wants you more than anyone else. I am to ignore all others until I have tasted your blood."
Sammael's been dead for quite some time already. Maybe Sammael was the 1st master, but gholam was acting under different master in chapter Blood In the Air and if I'm correct this begs a speculation why Mat was number one target. The gholam also spurs another question

- Any idea how the gholam is controlled? Has authors given any hints about that? I don't recall the books ever explaining it either, but I remember wondering how the Forsaken controlled them in order that they did not turn against themselves because the OP does not work on them. Obvious answer would be True Power, but it has problems too because I don't recall Sammael ever having had access to it.

About the Song. Let's supposed that you are correct. Song = signing to trees, which would mean that Loial has found the Song at least to some extend. Or rather he has the Song, i.e. Talent for tree singing. So what's the role of the tree singing at the end times? As a side note I'm rather happy that we got rid of those Tom Bombadils, aka Nyms.

Terez 05-24-2011 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by looqas (Post 150016)
I beg to differ about the gholam's master, because gholam says to Mat

For some reason I thought you meant back when it first attacked him in Ebou Dar. Anyway, we don't know, but Moridin is a good guess. Mat was the main target because he was the most important person in the area, probably. Perrin hadn't arrived yet.

Quote:

Any idea how the gholam is controlled?
RJ commented on it:

Quote:

TOR Questions of the Week, August 2004-January 2005

Week 6 Question: How were the gholams made? Were they created or bred like the Trollocs? How exactly are they controlled if they are immune to the One Power?

Robert Jordan Answers: The gholam---singular and plural are the same---were created, not bred. Supposedly their creation involved making them so that they would be obedient to the Chosen, whoever they might be at any given time. This was an attempt at copying something that had turned up in Myrddraal, which seem incapable of disobeying one of the Chosen, possibly because of the use of the True Power in creation of the Trollocs, the parent stock of the Myrddraal. Even Aginor, who created the Trollocs, and thus indirectly the Myrddraal, was uncertain about the actual cause. (Becoming one of the Forsaken involves receiving a mark from the Dark One in return for your oaths; this mark is invisible and cannot be sensed by another human being, even another of the Forsaken, but it can be [seen] by certain non-human creatures, including Myrddraal and draghkar among others. This may play a part in the Myrddraal's obedience but doesn't explain it completely.) This element in gholam has some flaws, however, as we have seen in a small measure. In any case, if I were you, I wouldn't try giving orders to a gholam unless I were one of the Forsaken.



Quote:

Obvious answer would be True Power, but it has problems too because I don't recall Sammael ever having had access to it.
Not only that, but the gholam sensed the residue of the True Power in his POV in TPOD, and he seems to only vaguely recall it.

Quote:

Song = signing to trees, which would mean that Loial has found the Song at least to some extend. Or rather he has the Song, i.e. Talent for tree singing.
That's why I said the Aiel might be able to do it without Nym. Again, we just don't know. Apparently it was a matter of age and deep voices for the Aiel rather than Talent.

WinespringBrother 05-24-2011 09:16 AM

That quote from RJ about Gholam is interesting because Graendal was almost killed by one:

Quote:

Lord of Chaos CHAPTER: 23 - To Understand a Message
Graendal smiled a good deal more warmly than she felt inside, though if her gown changed color, it was by a hair. She had had an unpleasant, in fact almost fatal, experience with one of Aginor's creations. The man had been brilliant in his way, but mad. None but a madman would have made the gholam. "You seem in very good mood."

Zombie Sammael 05-24-2011 10:25 AM

Okay, I have a question. What exactly is a mindtrap, and what does it do, beside seemingly compelling the individual it's linked to?

Weird Harold 05-24-2011 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael (Post 150036)
Okay, I have a question. What exactly is a mindtrap, and what does it do, beside seemingly compelling the individual it's linked to?

Conjecture:

A mind trap is apiece of "symathetic magic" that captures a portion of a person's soul/free-will/brain to hold hostage against the mindtrpped person's good behavior.

What is done to the mindtrap happens to the person trapped (and vice versa) so that the holder of the mindtrap can monitor behavior and punish (or even kill) the person without needing to know where they are.

Whether the mindtrap holds a piece of the trapped person's soul or controls an implanted bit of the mindtrap -- a la an exposive RFID chip -- isn't clear. Either method holds the trapped person's mind hostage to good behavior by making it impossible to escape monitoring and/or punishment.

Moghedien proved that the mindtrap doesn't turn the trappee into a puppet and it apparently requires active monitoring -- the trappee can deviate from orders or even disobey orders, if they're willing to suffer the consequences.

nameless 05-24-2011 01:33 PM

I'd further speculate that the trapped piece of the victim's psyche is subjected to constant torture while within the mindtrap, based on the glimpse of Mieren we see at the end of ToM.

Terez 05-24-2011 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael (Post 150036)
Okay, I have a question. What exactly is a mindtrap, and what does it do, beside seemingly compelling the individual it's linked to?

We don't know exactly what it is. But it doesn't automatically compel the individual; the person wearing the Mindtrap has to actually tap into the person's mind at will and use the Mindtrap to compel, which can be done to various degrees. Once a person is well-trained it usually only requires a small touch to remind them of the fact that they are owned completely. If the Mindtrap is crushed, then the Mindtrapped person becomes an automaton with no free will; a backseat rider in their own mind.

Zombie Sammael 05-24-2011 02:45 PM

Another, then, since it popped into my head while reading the reply about the cour'souvra: where do dolly-eyed servants come from?

Anyone saying "when a mummy doll-eyed servant and a daddy doll-eyed servant are very much in love" will be fed to Zombie Sammael's pack of Zombie Darkhounds, btw.


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