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  #201  
Old 10-06-2014, 04:17 AM
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Weird Harold Weird Harold is offline
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Originally Posted by rand View Post
When Nynaeve and Elayne visit Emond's Field in TAR, they see the plinth on the green that's carved with "mostly Two Rivers names." Who else's names would be on it from outside the TR? Alanna's Warder Owein? Some Tinkers?
If I recall the timeline correctly, there was a lot of immigration into the Two Rivers before Perrin showed up. Refugees making their way through the Mountains of Mist from
Tarabon and other eastern nations.

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
Nynaeve keeps getting reminded of the taste of boiled catfern and powdered mavinsleaf that Egwene made her drink...except Egwene never made her drink it.
Egwene did make her drink boiled Catfern in one of the early lessons in TAR -- or at least threatened to, as I recall.

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Originally Posted by rand View Post
Since Min always sees viewings around channelers and Warders, shouldn't she be able to tell that "Marigan's" a channeler based on all the viewings she must see around her?
"Marigan" was hiding her ability to Channel; perhaps blocking another Channeler's ability to sense her also blocks Min's viewings based on her ability.
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  #202  
Old 10-06-2014, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Weird Harold View Post
If I recall the timeline correctly, there was a lot of immigration into the Two Rivers before Perrin showed up. Refugees making their way through the Mountains of Mist from
Tarabon and other eastern nations.
If you don't recall it correctly (and you don't, which may be an important detail here) then that migration only really picked up when Perrin had settled there and was exerting his ta'veren influence.
People came to the TR because it was relatively safe and peaceful, not because they were eager to get eaten by Trollocs.

Quote:
"Marigan" was hiding her ability to Channel; perhaps blocking another Channeler's ability to sense her also blocks Min's viewings based on her ability.
Maybe, but based on events in AMoL, where "Marigan" (whatever she was calling herself then) was spotted by Min despite having hidden her ability to channel, I wouldn't trust that theory too far.
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  #203  
Old 10-09-2014, 04:19 PM
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When Rand sees the seal on Alviarin's letter, he recognizes it "as the island of Tar Valon." How does he recognize it? It isn't from LTT, because TV was just a random island then. Rand's never seen TV from an aerial perspective, and only in a dream. Unless he's seen maps of it (and there's nothing to say either way), there should be no way he'd instantly recognize and outline of Tar Valon.

How did Moiraine intercept the two letters for Rand from TV? It's also heavily implied that she was able to read them first as well...

After Rand hears about Rahvin killing Morgase, he freaks out and gets ready to attack Rahvin on the spot. But then Moiraine says simply "Tomorrow," and all of a sudden Rand cools down a bit and starts rationally thinking the situation through. So my question is, did Moiraine use some light form of Compulsion on Rand so that he'd hold off the attack long enough for Moiraine to kill Lanfear the next day?

Mat doesn't have memories from any two people that lived at the same time, right? So he has no memories of Hawkwing? This is somewhat odd considering the Aelfinn doorway was originally in Mayene and belonged to Hawkwing's descendants, implying Hawkwing himself may have owned it at some point. And if he did, presumably he would have used it. I know that's a lot of assumptions, but my point is that the Eelfinn should have access to Hawkwing's memories, even if they didn't give them to Mat.

Where do the dice in Mat's head come from? I think he has an early version of them in Tear at the end of tDR, so that would seem to rule out either trip to Finnland. Is it from Mordeth? Being ta'veren?

In the chapters before her "death," it's noted by Rand that Moiraine's blue stone glows. It's mentioned at least three times, iirc. Is this significant at all?

In the final Kadere PoV, we get this:
Quote:
tFoH 52
The docks held almost as many Aiel as they did workmen, come to stare at the river; he had seen a few of those faces more often than seemed reasonable, and some had looked at him consideringly. A few Cairhienin had as well, and a Tairen lord. That meant nothing by itself, of course, but if he could find a few men to work with...
Assuming these are DFs searching out Kadere, who are they? The Cairhienin aren't mentioned as being nobles, so it's hard to tell with them. What about the Tairen lord? Weiramon was already gone by this point, but are any of the other Tairen lords with Rand DFs?


Kadere is instantly able to look at Aviendha's face and tell she's been sleeping with Rand. No one else can, apparently. Even the WOs seem largely ignorant of this until Amys points it out shortly after Moiraine's death.

What makes the doorway melt when Moiraine and Lanfear fall through? Is it the fact that they're both channeling, or did Moiraine try to destroy it when she got the angreal away from Lanfear?

Amys calls Rand a fool when he says that Moiraine's dead. Moiraine seems to have gotten her knowledge of this day from Rhuidean, not the WOs, so how does Amys know Moiraine's still alive? Did the WOs Dream about it?

How did one of the supremely capable Aiel manage to trip and fall off the Skimming platform?

Something that just occured to me: given infinite time, will the gholam eventually fall on someone's Skimming platform and escape the Skimming space? I forget if he'll starve to death without blood, though...

How did Rahvin get all the Trollocs into the palace in Caemlyn? Presumably no one really saw this, as the whole city would have fled, not just the people in the palace. Also, are these Trollocs and Fades the same as the ones that were camped outside Caemlyn back in tEotW? iirc there were about 400 of them then.

Since Moghedien is the self-professed queen of TAR, shouldn't she easily be able to escape the a'dam, as Egwene did in ToM? It's hard to believe Nynaeve's bumbling adventures in TAR give her equal experience there with Moghedien. Also, couldn't Moggy have just forced Nynaeve out of TAR at any point too?

How did Moghedien know about Rand's plan to attack Rahvin? Melindhra found out, but was killed immediately after...

Right before they go to Caemlyn in TAR, Nynaeve thinks this:
Quote:
tFoH 54
Another deep breath, and Nynaeve began forming the image of the one place in Caemlyn she knew well enough to remember. The Royal Palace, where Elayne had taken her. Rahvin must be there.
Nynaeve seriously doesn't remember her visit to Caemlyn in tEotW? The Queen's Blessing? Anywhere else?


Nynaeve also thinks this a little while into the battle:
Quote:
tFoH 55
Had that been Rand, or Rahvin? She had seen bars of white fire, liquid light, like that in Tanchico, and she had no wish to be anywhere near one again. She did not know what it was, and she did not want to know. I want to Heal, burn both of these fool men, not learn a fancy way to kill!
What? Nynaeve has heard of balefire, used BF, and even recognized it as BF back in Tanchico in tSR. Nynaeve seems to have a lot of memory issues in TAR at the end of this book...


I know RJ's said the two servants Rand comes across aren't Graendal and Sammael in disguise. But who are they, then? All the servants have reportedly fled the palace.


I noticed this for the first time from the last chapter (from Rand's PoV):
Quote:
tFoH 56
Asmodean sat on a bench in the shade of a red myrtle tree, playing his harp.
After some vigorous research (well, a few seconds on Google) I saw that myrtle trees can be symbols of divine justice, prosperity, and immortality. So I guess Asmo's myrtle tree was added by RJ for irony...
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  #204  
Old 10-10-2014, 04:24 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is online now
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Originally Posted by rand View Post
When Rand sees the seal on Alviarin's letter, he recognizes it "as the island of Tar Valon." How does he recognize it? It isn't from LTT, because TV was just a random island then. Rand's never seen TV from an aerial perspective, and only in a dream. Unless he's seen maps of it (and there's nothing to say either way), there should be no way he'd instantly recognize and outline of Tar Valon.
Quite true. Well spotted. Now, if you'd read the first book in the series too, then you might have noticed the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEOTW, Chapter 18, The Caemlyn Road
The land itself was different, though, for by midday the road entered low hills. For two days the road ran through the hills cut right through them, sometimes, if they were wide enough to have made the road go much out of its way and not so big as to have made digging through too difficult. As the angle of the sun shifted each day it became apparent that the road, for all it appeared straight to the eye, curved slowly southward as it ran east. Rand had daydreamed over Master al'Vere's old map half the boys in Emond's Field had daydreamed over it and as he remembered, the road curved around something called the Hills of Absher until it reached Whitebridge.
Now, combine the way that Tar Valon looks with "half the boys daydreaming over the map" and you'll understand why Rand might be able to recognise it at a glance.

Quote:
Mat doesn't have memories from any two people that lived at the same time, right? So he has no memories of Hawkwing? This is somewhat odd considering the Aelfinn doorway was originally in Mayene and belonged to Hawkwing's descendants, implying Hawkwing himself may have owned it at some point. And if he did, presumably he would have used it. I know that's a lot of assumptions, but my point is that the Eelfinn should have access to Hawkwing's memories, even if they didn't give them to Mat.
Mat probably does have memories from people who were alive at the same time, though he has never really sat down and figured that out one way or another.
It seems likely that the Eelfinn gave him just the memories they wanted to give him, not all that they had.

Quote:
How did one of the supremely capable Aiel manage to trip and fall off the Skimming platform?
Some of the border stones looked solid, but weren't. Making the wrong mistake with that, especially in crowded conditions, can be fatal.

Quote:
Something that just occured to me: given infinite time, will the gholam eventually fall on someone's Skimming platform and escape the Skimming space? I forget if he'll starve to death without blood, though...
He'll probably die of boredom if he doesn't starve.
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  #205  
Old 10-10-2014, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Quite true. Well spotted. Now, if you'd read the first book in the series too, then you might have noticed the following:

Now, combine the way that Tar Valon looks with "half the boys daydreaming over the map" and you'll understand why Rand might be able to recognise it at a glance.
It's possible Rand saw it there I guess. But assuming Bran's map was of all Randland (5000 x 4000 miles or so), it seems unlikely a tiny island like TV (1 x .5 miles I think(?)) would show up as anything more than a dot.

Though admittedly I never connected all the daydreaming the boys do with the map we get of TV, lol...
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  #206  
Old 10-14-2014, 11:28 PM
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I haven't read very far into LoC yet. I've been writing more than reading lately. Anyway, here's some stuff from the prologue and first few chapters.



First I just wanted to mention the cover art for this book. I know DKS wasn't exactly known for his accuracy with the WoT books but...what the hell is the scene on the front even supposed to be? I'm guessing it's Dumai's Wells, but then who's the girl? Min's the only one there, yet it's clearly not her. It looks like Elayne in a frayed White Tower graduation gown or something. And then there's that flying thing, which I guess is somehow symbolic of the Dragon even though it looks nothing like how the dragon banner is described. And then on the back cover there's some floating circus tents with the...green banner of Andor? Or is it Gawyn's white boar?

I also wanted to say that, for me, this is where the series starts to get more interesting. I know I'm in the minority here, but I think LoC through WH is my favorite section of the whole thing. I'm not really sure why, exactly. And that's not to say I dislike any of the previous books. The only book I really have a pain enjoying is CoT.



Ok, so now that we know Demandred was in Shara the whole time, what was the purpose of the "bookend" PoVs he gets in LoC? Since the book finishes with him saying "Have I not done well, Great Lord?" he presumably does something off screen. It's easy to assume he did something that affected the plot of LoC, but this doesn't seem to be the case. So are we just supposed to assume he took over Shara in this time period? If so, he's much later than the other Forsaken in taking over his respective nation.

Why is the Bore thinner at this particular spot? I'm not sure of this matters, but the "idyllic island" (Shayol Ghul) is clearly not where Lanfear originally drilled the Bore.

So to make the Myrddraal blades someone has to be killed. Does this imply there's a soul trapped inside each blade or...what?

When did Elayne make her copy of the a'dam? She doesn't seem to have done it by the end of tFoH, but they must have used it right away on Marigan before she woke up. And it couldn't have been the original a'dam they used, as everyone would have noticed it.

I forget if this is ever mentioned, but are the "Salidar Six" (Sheriam and the others) the six most powerful AS in Salidar? Why are they in charge of everything, even after they've elected a new Hall? I know they organized the rebels, but that doesn't seem like a good enough reason for all the other AS to leave them in charge.

So what is a well-turned calf anyway?

Dav Ayellin and Ewin Finngar never showed up again, right? It would've been cool for them to have a cameo in aMoL.

By the prologue of LoC, Taren Ferry has been repopulated. They've even elected a new mayor, have a Wisdom, and presumably have a Village Council and Women's Circle. So why is the village still in ruins by the time of the aMoL prologue? And all the original villagers have apparently fled, so it can't be blamed on Taren Ferry people being weird.

Is the peddler who tells Gawyn that Rand killed his mother really just a peddler? Even Gawyn notes how odd it is that a peddler would happen upon their camp out in the middle of nowhere. Since we know he's been in the area, is it possibly Sammael trying to turn House Trakand against Rand?

It's constantly brought up that Rand was hanging High Lords left and right back in Tear. I forget, did he actually ever hang any of them? I remember he threaten to, but I thought that was all.

The return of Paitr, the most incompetent DF ever. Seriously, what's his plan with Morgase? There isn't even really a point to him being in this book, unless it's the irony of the WCs catching a real DF for once. What about his Uncle Jen? Is he real, or just something Paitr made up?

From what I can remember, the first time Mesaana is mentioned (outside of the glossary) is in her own PoV in the LoC prologue. I think she's also the last Forsaken to get named.

When Demandred reveals the DO's plan to Mesaana and the others, Mesaana thinks it's a gamble and will require a lot of luck. Does this plan refer to anything we see later on in the series?

Why does it take well over a year to reincarnate Aginor and Balthamel, but Ishamael and Lanfear come back much more quickly?

If "car" means chief (as in car'a'carn), what does jo-car translate to?

Names like Arymilla and Daerilla look more Spanishy (ie Tairen) than Andoran.

Do we know if Taim was always a DF, or if he just switched sides after he was freed? If he wasn't always a DF, how did he escape the taint? Is it possible he didn't have the spark, and the Shadow taught him/recruited him shortly before the series started?

Why does Taim look different to Bashere now? It can't just be the fact that he shaved. There must be some reason RJ brought this up, though.

We know he wasn't Demandred or anything, but what is it about Taim that makes "LTT" want to not trust him/kill him?

Why did Taim give the seal to Rand? It seems like a big thing for the DO to give up just so Taim could earn Rand's trust.

This may tie in with the LTT wanting to kill Taim thing, but is there any evidence that Taim is a new Forsaken from the start? I forget if Taim mentions in aMoL when he was chosen. Anyway, some of LTT's ramblings ("Kill him! Kill them all!") might make a bit more sense if he (ie Rand subconsciously) thought that Taim was a Forsaken.

Taim mentions Rand's luck a few times. First he says "You seem to have luck enough for ten men." Then he says "You do seem to have the Dark One's own luck." This is odd for a couple reasons. One, he's barely known Rand for ten minutes when he says all this. And two, nothing all that extraordinary happened to make Taim say it. Sure, Damer Flinn tested positive for channeling (Taim's first try), but it's a bit of an overreaction on Taim's part to go on about Rand's luck like he does. Unless he already knows Rand, or has heard rumors of him...

Taim is literally shocked when Rand mentions a Forsaken might try to infiltrate the BT. Is this because he already knows about the plan involving Aginor/Dashiva?

It's mentioned that Rand is special to the Maidens because he's the only child of a Maiden they've known to be a Maiden's child. But wouldn't they find it odd when a non-Maiden suddenly has a baby without getting pregnant? They'd have to assume that was also a child of a Maiden.
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  #207  
Old 10-15-2014, 03:52 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is online now
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First I just wanted to mention the cover art for this book. I know DKS wasn't exactly known for his accuracy with the WoT books but...what the hell is the scene on the front even supposed to be?
The cover art is artsy. I think that this time I'll leave other comments to others.

Quote:
Ok, so now that we know Demandred was in Shara the whole time, what was the purpose of the "bookend" PoVs he gets in LoC? Since the book finishes with him saying "Have I not done well, Great Lord?" he presumably does something off screen. It's easy to assume he did something that affected the plot of LoC, but this doesn't seem to be the case. So are we just supposed to assume he took over Shara in this time period? If so, he's much later than the other Forsaken in taking over his respective nation.
Demandred recruited Mazrim Taim, probably around this time. That became sort of a central issue in the next book, though it wasn't explicitly revealed until AMoL.

Quote:
Is the peddler who tells Gawyn that Rand killed his mother really just a peddler? Even Gawyn notes how odd it is that a peddler would happen upon their camp out in the middle of nowhere. Since we know he's been in the area, is it possibly Sammael trying to turn House Trakand against Rand?
I think there's an RJ quote that he was just a peddler.

Quote:
When Demandred reveals the DO's plan to Mesaana and the others, Mesaana thinks it's a gamble and will require a lot of luck. Does this plan refer to anything we see later on in the series?
It may be handing the Seal over to Rand, with a weave on it so that it can be found again (similar to what Moiraine did with the coins she handed out in TEOTW).

Quote:
Why does it take well over a year to reincarnate Aginor and Balthamel, but Ishamael and Lanfear come back much more quickly?
Narrative imperative. Or, alternatively, the DO was better prepared to handle such eventualities the second time around.

Quote:
If "car" means chief (as in car'a'carn), what does jo-car translate to?
"Jo" is an abbreviation for Jennifer Lopez ...

Quote:
Do we know if Taim was always a DF, or if he just switched sides after he was freed? If he wasn't always a DF, how did he escape the taint? Is it possible he didn't have the spark, and the Shadow taught him/recruited him shortly before the series started?
Demandred recruited him, after he was released from captivity.

Quote:
We know he wasn't Demandred or anything, but what is it about Taim that makes "LTT" want to not trust him/kill him?
May be Demandred's influence.

Quote:
Why did Taim give the seal to Rand? It seems like a big thing for the DO to give up just so Taim could earn Rand's trust.
See before.
Plus, there are other indications that the DO didn't always want those Seals broken. Moghedien ignored the one she saw in Tanchico too, you may remember.

Quote:
This may tie in with the LTT wanting to kill Taim thing, but is there any evidence that Taim is a new Forsaken from the start? I forget if Taim mentions in aMoL when he was chosen. Anyway, some of LTT's ramblings ("Kill him! Kill them all!") might make a bit more sense if he (ie Rand subconsciously) thought that Taim was a Forsaken.
See before.

Quote:
Taim mentions Rand's luck a few times. First he says "You seem to have luck enough for ten men." Then he says "You do seem to have the Dark One's own luck." This is odd for a couple reasons. One, he's barely known Rand for ten minutes when he says all this. And two, nothing all that extraordinary happened to make Taim say it. Sure, Damer Flinn tested positive for channeling (Taim's first try), but it's a bit of an overreaction on Taim's part to go on about Rand's luck like he does. Unless he already knows Rand, or has heard rumors of him...
He undoubtedly has heard rumours of him, and he probably prefers Demandred's belief that it is a matter of luck over the assumption that Rand is that much more competent than he (either Taim or Demandred, take your pick) ever was.

Quote:
Taim is literally shocked when Rand mentions a Forsaken might try to infiltrate the BT. Is this because he already knows about the plan involving Aginor/Dashiva?
It could also be because at that point, he considers himself to be an infiltration plot by a Forsaken.

Quote:
It's mentioned that Rand is special to the Maidens because he's the only child of a Maiden they've known to be a Maiden's child. But wouldn't they find it odd when a non-Maiden suddenly has a baby without getting pregnant? They'd have to assume that was also a child of a Maiden.
Do they know where babies come from?
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  #208  
Old 11-03-2014, 04:11 AM
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I am also going to re read the entire series.
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  #209  
Old 01-30-2017, 11:30 PM
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I'm rereading again and figured I'd resurrect this thread for it. I doubt I'll go into as much detail as before though.


When Rand first sees the Myrddraal in chapter 1 of tEotW, Tam goes to check for the horse's footprints before Rand stops him and they continue on their way. But those footprints should be there. Now, Tam seemed pretty convinced that Rand and the other boys had in fact seen something by the time they head back home, but does anyone think Tam was checking for footprints on their way back and found them? It's specifically mentioned that he checked the ground at their farm, so you'd think Tam would have thought to check the ground near where Rand originally spotted the Fade. It might explain a little more why Tam would whip out his sword as soon as they got back.


It's mentioned that Tam and Rand are considered odd for being two men living alone (as opposed to a multi-generational, sprawling farmhouse). Does Tam have parents/relatives in Emond's Field? Does Rand have all kinds of apparently estranged cousins, etc? (Sackville-al Thors?)
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  #210  
Old 02-26-2017, 11:46 PM
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I don't really remember, is the Dragon's Fang being printed on doors still a thing after book 1? I mean, I'm sure it's mentioned but it's kind of a big deal in tEotW and seems much less so in later book from what I remember.
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Old 02-27-2017, 03:11 AM
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It is overused and thus loses most of its effectiveness. This is shown in book 4 (TSR), when the Whitecloaks are annoyed that the villagers mostly ignore the Dragon's Fang.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:16 PM
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It's a common event in fantasy books (and I assume in history) for a host to offer guests "bread and salt." Is this just a general term for "food," or are guests literally served salt sandwiches?
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by rand View Post
It's a common event in fantasy books (and I assume in history) for a host to offer guests "bread and salt." Is this just a general term for "food," or are guests literally served salt sandwiches?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_salt
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:41 AM
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So does Ishamael actually have the memories of all his past lives in his head, or does he just act like he does because, as a philosopher, he's figured out what his past lives have gone through? When he blathers on about how he and Rand have fought countless times in countless ages, this doesn't necessarily mean he remembers it all. I always just chalked most of it up to arrogance/madness. But in Perrin's dream in the Tinker camp in tEotW, he says this upon seeing the wolf in the dream:
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"Is this what you have to protect you? Well, I have faced this before. Many times before."
This seems to indicate that Ishamael does, in fact, remember wolfbrothers in his past lives. On the other hand, assuming Ishamael knows about the Wolf King propheces, he could, I guess, still be talking out of his ass here, pretending he knows all about wolfbrothers from past lives when he really only knows that, theoretically, he should have known about them in his infinite past lives. Still, the fact that he sees the wolf and instantly knows what Perrin is, definitely seems to point to him having memories of wolfbrothers in past lives.
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Old 03-07-2017, 03:45 AM
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Ishamael no doubt was good at bluffing.
But he may also have gotten a lot of information from the DO. After all, what better way to seduce a philosopher than offering the wisdom of the Ages?
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