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  #481  
Old 08-17-2017, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DahLliA View Post
No. They probably would blame the patriarchy and every man in the world though.
That's a bit of hyperbole, but so was my comment- so fair is fair.

I read his essay and the article you posted. I agree that the way he (the essay writer) has been portrayed is unfair to the tone and overall point he was trying to make.

However, once someone starts focusing on science that seems to show women are more anxious, men are less cooperative, women are more people oriented, men are more status oriented- it is just so easy to stereotype and discriminate. And for the group in which this stereotyping and discrimination has resulted in net loss (in this instance- women) then it is very difficult to not see these types of arguments as more ammunition to perpetuate suppression. Even when unintended.
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  #482  
Old 08-17-2017, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DahLliA View Post
"Hey, Google has turned into a PC echo chamber where you can't have differing opinions."

"Well now, that is just plain untrue, and also. You're fired because you have a differing opinion."

I wonder if everyone who pulled out the torches and pitchforks over this would have done the same if a female nurse wrote the exact same memo only with the genders (and job descriptions) switched around?

And I'm nowhere close to eloquent enough to type a long answer to the rest of your post, but these four do a good job of it:
https://web.archive.org/web/20170810...tists-respond/
No, he was fired for maligning a third of his coworkers. What he did was incredibly stupid and harmful. He put out a manifesto inside the company arguing that some large fraction of his colleagues are at root not good enough to do their jobs, and that they’re only being kept in their jobs because of some political ideas. And worse than simply thinking these things or saying them in private, he aired this stupidity in a way that was trying to legitimize it across the company, and got out into the public at large.

He harmed the company's ability to function by in effect alienating large numbers of coworkers AND making the company focus on dealing with this shit-show, rather than doing their actual jobs. That's a firin' where I come from, irrespective of how it's accomplished.

On a managerial level, how is his supervisor supposed to work with him now? Who could he possibly put on a team with this guy who isn't going to object? He created a fucking textbook hostile work environment.

This is nothing to do with whether or not he has a point (hint: he doesn't). It has to do with HOW he put his point out there. But let's be candid- not all ideas are equal. Not all ideas have legitimacy. There's a difference between “I believe we should adopt Go as our primary coding language” and “I believe one-third of my colleagues are either biologically unsuited to do their jobs, or if not are exceptions but should still be suspected of being completely inept unless and until they can prove otherwise to each and every person’s satisfaction.”

This notion that his ideas are unwelcome at Google... well, so what if it is? Name a company at which his idea would fly. Try going into your job tomorrow and saying "Women aren't capable of working here." If you get fired, would it be because your job is a bastion of PC thought which can't bear to be challenged? Or would it be because you fucked up, alienated a large percentage of your co-workers, publicly gave your company a black eye and forced them to spend time, money, and energy repairing what you said- and you got canned for the good of the company?
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Last edited by StrangePackage; Yesterday at 08:10 AM.
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  #483  
Old Yesterday, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by StrangePackage View Post
“I believe we should adopt Go as our primary coding language”
Which one? There are at least two programming languages with that name.

Quote:
This notion that his ideas are unwelcome at Google... well, so what if it is? Name a company at which his idea would fly.
Trump Enterprises, or whatever that's called?
Point being: nowadays it is difficult to argue that his ideas aren't politically correct in the USA, considering the outcome of the latest elections there.
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  #484  
Old Yesterday, 12:36 PM
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Bannon was fired.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40980994

Quote:
Mr Trump fuelled speculation when asked last week about Mr Bannon's future as he replied: "We'll see."
Mr Bannon's interview this week with the American Prospect magazine reportedly infuriated the president.
The White House aide was quoted as claiming he had the power to fire officials at the State Department and contradicting Mr Trump on North Korea.
Trump may have just made an enemy of Breitbart.

Last edited by Kimon; Yesterday at 12:39 PM.
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  #485  
Old Yesterday, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
Bannon was fired.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40980994



Trump may have just made an enemy of Breitbart.
And his core followers; the so-called "alt-right" (KKK and neo-Nazis) in general.
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  #486  
Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM
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I doubt this is an actual firing. This is just a fig leaf. Bannon will keep pimping Trump but now Trump can claim separation from Bannon's white nationalist dogwhistles.
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  #487  
Old Yesterday, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by StrangePackage View Post
I doubt this is an actual firing. This is just a fig leaf. Bannon will keep pimping Trump but now Trump can claim separation from Bannon's white nationalist dogwhistles.
I'm not sure. It sounds like Kutchner, the bureaucrat-generals (Kelly, Mattis, and McMaster), and all of the other economic advisors (Cohn and Mnuchin) all wanted him gone, and probably brought in Scaramucci hoping that the Mooch could come in and get rid of both Priebus and Bannon. But the Mooch was getting too much self-publicity, and so only managed to shank Priebus before falling himself.

But the schism between those generals and Bannon remained. Bannon thus became the last remaining obvious target inside the administration to blame for all of Trump's own completely personal failures. That alone might have been enough to get him fired, but when coupled with Bannon's recent interview with American Prospect magazine, where he both said that Trump's Korea policy was idiotic and that a war there was an impossible and obvious bluff, and, perhaps even more disobediently, said that Trump and his economic advisors were soft on China and that anything less than a trade war with China would be a betrayal of Trump's campaign promises, that whole interview sounded like a man who had already been fired (just not yet announced), who was looking to take a few shots at his colleagues on the way out the door.

And then today one of his Breitbart henchmen tweeted out a very simple declaration - #War.
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  #488  
Old Yesterday, 11:39 PM
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War against whom though? Bannon is saying it was voluntary and now he's gonna go on a full on attack off trump's enemies. Seems like this isn't really a firing at all but a way for Bannon to go gloves off and have it be deniable does Trump. So he still gets to court his white nationalist base but he can pretend he's more reasonable.
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  #489  
Old Today, 03:56 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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Subtlety from Bannon and Trump?
Not technically impossible, perhaps, but it seems a bit out of character.
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