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  #341  
Old 06-23-2011, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crispin's Crispian View Post
Narg, because horses can't throw cages.
Nah, Bela -- because Narg's been dead for two years dead and can't throw cages either.
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  #342  
Old 06-23-2011, 06:12 PM
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Hi, this is my first post here and I hope it's not TOO stupid. This is something that has tweaked me for years and years though so...

In TSR, when Perrin, Loial, Faile, Gaul, Bain and Chiad are about to enter the Ways to go to the Two Rivers, Faile, who was miffed with Perrin at the time, tells Loial that he exhibits the trait that his name implies (or something to that effect) in an effort to twit Perrin's nose.

Anyway, the upshot of that is that, assuming that Proper names are rendered in the books as they exist in Randland (aside from inns and horses), Loial is a homonym for the Randland (new tongue?) word for loyal. Or, the word for loyal is the same in English as it is in the new tongue.

Aside, from proper nouns, I think that is the only time that I have noticed a word being given a sound in the new tongue.

Does this mean anything? Was it a literary slip up waiting for a pedantic weenie to point it out or is it intentional or just a coincidence? I'm tending towards the pedantic weenie solution, but I have not seen is discussed over the years.

Thank you!
  #343  
Old 06-23-2011, 06:17 PM
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The idea RJ was working with was that, since the Wheel is endless and our own world is supposedly the same world in another Age, that they really do speak English, and that it makes sense somehow because the Old Tongue was a combination of all the world's languages. It's a little shady, but a convenient fiction, and I don't think RJ ever really pretended otherwise.
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  #344  
Old 06-23-2011, 06:21 PM
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OH, thank you... English it is and a weenie I am not! (for that reason anyway)
  #345  
Old 06-23-2011, 06:23 PM
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We are not prejudiced against weenies usually. So even if you were...

Welcome to Theoryland, by the way.
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  #346  
Old 06-23-2011, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ban al'Tee View Post
Aside, from proper nouns, I think that is the only time that I have noticed a word being given a sound in the new tongue.
The only other occasion I can remember right now is when Min pretends to think Aviendha's talking about toes instead of toh:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter's Heart
"This man has toh to us, Aan'allein, and we to him. It must be worked out."
Min spread her hands. "I don't know what anybody's toes have to do with anything, or feet either, but I'm not going anywhere until you talk to them, Rand!" She affected not to notice Aviendha's outraged glare.
I wonder how foreign translations of the book handled that part... The words are homophones in Scandinavian languages too, as are Loial/loyal (lojal).
  #347  
Old 06-23-2011, 10:57 PM
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Is there any way to find out if I rated my own thread terrible? Because I think I kind of did (accidently), on my "join me in hating Gareth Bryne/keep the fandom alive" thread. I realize the rating might be from others, but it also says [I]I[\I] rated the thing, which I do not remember doing.
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  #348  
Old 06-23-2011, 11:25 PM
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Default An Universe of Dreams: Bela speaks Trolloc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand al'Fain View Post
If Bela got into a cage fight with Narg, who would win?
Why would Bela need to fight a Trolloc?
Or the soul of Narg?


Who is to say, Bela and Narg won't cooperate towards a larger goal instead?


Text sources:
Loial has claimed Trollocs have souls.
Lanfear/Mierin has claimed Trollocs have dreams (Perrin pov).
Trollocs have fought to save ta'veren before, in the Stone (TSR book)
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  #349  
Old 06-23-2011, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
Is there any way to find out if I rated my own thread terrible? Because I think I kind of did (accidently), on my "join me in hating Gareth Bryne/keep the fandom alive" thread. I realize the rating might be from others, but it also says [I]I[\I] rated the thing, which I do not remember doing.
The rating thing doesn't work properly. I don't think it matters who rates a thread, it always says "you" did if you try to rate a thread someone else has already rated.
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  #350  
Old 06-23-2011, 11:41 PM
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Ah. No oneder frenzy is pissed lol.
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  #351  
Old 06-24-2011, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepinghour View Post
The only other occasion I can remember right now is when Min pretends to think Aviendha's talking about toes instead of toh:
Good point! I just finished my 10th or so re-read of books 4 - 6 and I recall that NOW (with some help)

Quote:
I wonder how foreign translations of the book handled that part... The words are homophones in Scandinavian languages too, as are Loial/loyal (lojal).
Hej Sverige!
It sort of works in French too and I was thinking that the whole thing would have been much easier to explain if I had posted in some other language, but happily, you and <She who must be obeyed> understood what I was saying.

Anyway, aside from being a curiosity I guess there's nothing to the thought. When I originally started being bugged about it (1993 or so) I don't think the issue was explained or resolved and, as I haven't really posted anywhere since 1996, it was still on my mind.

I DO have some other questions.. or perhaps thoughts, but as they might touch on the Eqwene One (EO), I shall hold them close for now..
  #352  
Old 06-24-2011, 12:39 AM
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Certainly some songs would be expected to rhyme, so there is that as well.
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  #353  
Old 06-24-2011, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
Certainly some songs would be expected to rhyme, so there is that as well.
True enough. A word might rhyme with a proper noun in a song which is, at least, evidence that it sounds like said noun.

The relevance (if there is any to all this) is where WE fit into the seven ages. I know we are supposed to be the first age, and that is as may be, we know little or nothing about that time from the books. However, where we are now, we are on the cusp of having a common language, sort of English maybe, but called globish.

So maybe in other turns of the wheel, globish, or perhaps the precursor to the Old Tongue, was Russian or some form of Chinese or something else altogether. The Old Tongue, as we know it, does not seem to lead directly into any kind of English, but, maybe our current globish can lead to the old tongue... somehow.

bah, I'm babbling...but wait!... Tower of Babel, a sort of linguistic Breaking of the World?? ok I'll hush now...
  #354  
Old 06-24-2011, 06:53 PM
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Actually what's interesting about the babel thing is that RJ noted that the instability gave no opportunity for new languages to form.

And this is a question, and related to wot but maybe not wot related...
Are there any graphic designers here? Because:

If anyone knows of any fan art of the map room in the palace of caemlyn that could be made to fit the shape of the library, I would be most appreciative.
Delete if necessary, disregard as you will.
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Last edited by The Unreasoner; 06-24-2011 at 06:57 PM.
  #355  
Old 06-25-2011, 04:59 PM
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This might be an answer I've just forgotten, but what was Leane doing in Tar Valon (in TAR) during LOC? She claims to have been "increasing the wonder of the mysterious Aes Sedai" to Nynaneve. Was it some sort of sabotage?
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  #356  
Old 06-25-2011, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FelixPax View Post
Why would Bela need to fight a Trolloc?
Or the soul of Narg?
Not his soul, just the two of them in a cage, fighting it out for the World Heavyweight Title.


Quote:
Who is to say, Bela and Narg won't cooperate towards a larger goal instead?
Considering that Trollocs like to kill and eat just about any type of meat, I'd say they'd have a pretty good reason to go all out.


[
Quote:
RIGHT]Text sources:
Loial has claimed Trollocs have souls.
Loial has also said that he talks an hour before he thinks.
Quote:
Lanfear/Mierin has claimed Trollocs have dreams (Perrin pov).
And the Forsaken often lie to eachother, let alone those "below" them.
Quote:
Trollocs have fought to save ta'veren before, in the Stone (TSR book)[/RIGHT]
Forced to fight other Trollocs by a certain Forsaken. Otherwise, they would have joined in the killing of people (look at the Dragon Reborn book for at least 2 examples of Trollocs happily butchering people). Also, look at The Shadow Rising I believe, where Trollocs certainly try to kill Perrin (well known Ta'veren) in the TR.
  #357  
Old 06-25-2011, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
This might be an answer I've just forgotten, but what was Leane doing in Tar Valon (in TAR) during LOC? She claims to have been "increasing the wonder of the mysterious Aes Sedai" to Nynaneve. Was it some sort of sabotage?
She was checking on her eyes and ears, probably reading their reports. Increasing the wonder of the Aes Sedai probably has something to do with certain things that are unexplained to her agents, like maybe responses arriving the day after reports are sent, maybe even before they are sent, etc. Who knows. You can't leave messages for people in Tel'aran'rhiod, but she can always Travel in the waking world to a place very nearby Tar Valon to release her pigeons. Or something.
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  #358  
Old 06-26-2011, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
She was checking on her eyes and ears, probably reading their reports. Increasing the wonder of the Aes Sedai probably has something to do with certain things that are unexplained to her agents, like maybe responses arriving the day after reports are sent, maybe even before they are sent, etc. Who knows. You can't leave messages for people in Tel'aran'rhiod, but she can always Travel in the waking world to a place very nearby Tar Valon to release her pigeons. Or something.
At that particular point, Leane can't channel, let alone travel, but she has the ring ter'angreal to enter TAR. So the question would appear to remain open.
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Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

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  #359  
Old 06-26-2011, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
At that particular point, Leane can't channel, let alone travel, but she has the ring ter'angreal to enter TAR. So the question would appear to remain open.
Nah, she can always get someone else to release her pigeons. We know for sure she was checking on her eyes and ears.
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  #360  
Old 06-26-2011, 11:25 AM
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Nah, she can always get someone else to release her pigeons. We know for sure she was checking on her eyes and ears.
Well, we know that's what she claimed. Perhaps she's Demandred in disguise, though.
 


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