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  #441  
Old 07-05-2011, 04:04 PM
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The deathwatch guard bit is where i get lost, i suppose compulsion on real ones or ath'an shadar wearing the armor could work though. the rumor started before suroth was told to kill tuon though, and the degree of detail and consistency seems to me to indicate that it really happened.
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  #442  
Old 07-06-2011, 04:50 AM
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It has to be real I think. Mor investigated it and gave the report (of witnesses) to Karede. But using compulsion would have been risky unless she got rid of them after. If they remembered anything at all, it would all come out given the seanchan penchant for thoroughness.

I wonder why it hasn't been mentioned since. I mean treason among the guards was enough to shake the unflappable karede and he seems to have forgotten about it. Or is BS hiding something up his sleeve? Could someone check?
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  #443  
Old 07-06-2011, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Selig View Post
Something really minor - are Min and Leane the only women in the series who've seen wear makeup?
The Domani use make up as a matter of course. But i've not followed the descriptions closely enough to tell if we've actually seen them on screen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Res_Ipsa
It would not be out of the bounds of reason that large populations could be supported provided there were certain features: plentiful water (albeit hard to find and "plentiful" being a relative term), resilient plants and animals among them breed-able creatures for basic foodstuffs.
and..

Quote:
Originally Posted by WH
It's been a while since I did an actual computation, but IIRC, it worked out the needing to support about 100/sq mi when the climate described couldn't support more than 1 or 2 per sq mile -- and that's a generous estimate; some deserts only support about one person per ten square miles
.


The aiel RJ are "unnatural" in many ways. Its acknowledged somewhere in the series that "normal" RLers could not survive in the waste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xevus
I've been reading some old threads about ToM in archives and noticed that everybody constantly joking about the fact that all 3 ta'veren has seen Moiraine naked. When exactly did Perrin saw her naked ?
Rand hasn't. Be careful, Moirane has a very eager warder now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mykeyhuffy
The only answer I can come up with myself is that the sul'dam and damane were taken by a Seeker of Truth and put to the question, and likely never seen again. Am I right about this or is there another explanation?

Seeing a gateway that has been made is much different from seeing how it was made unless you have the Talent for residues. Second, the gateway was shrouded by saidin which the damane cannot see. Third Avi's gateway was unusual.
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  #444  
Old 07-06-2011, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by greatwolf View Post
Rand hasn't. Be careful, Moirane has a very eager warder now.
Rand saw Moiraine naked in Rhuidean in TSR.
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  #445  
Old 07-06-2011, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Rand saw Moiraine naked in Rhuidean in TSR.
And Perrin walked in on her topless in TDR when she was brushing her hair. Technically she was wearing a robe but it was undone so he got to see everything. It was quite the awkward scene actually...very Mrs. Robinson.
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  #446  
Old 07-06-2011, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Rand saw Moiraine naked in Rhuidean in TSR.
Oh that.
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  #447  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:10 AM
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Even though Rand will most likely die, and then somehow come back to life, wouldn't he still be the Cara'carn of the Aiel? The Chief of Chiefs? Even after TG (considering that the Aiel know it's coming, but their prophecies have nothing to do with it)?
  #448  
Old 07-07-2011, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Rand al'Fain View Post
Even though Rand will most likely die, and then somehow come back to life, wouldn't he still be the Cara'carn of the Aiel? The Chief of Chiefs? Even after TG (considering that the Aiel know it's coming, but their prophecies have nothing to do with it)?
I guess that depends if you subscribe to the "Body Swap" theory or not. Obviously if Rand swaps bodies, he wouldn't be marked as the Cara'carn anymore.
  #449  
Old 07-07-2011, 06:37 PM
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I doubt that simply not having markings makes him not the car'a'carn.

Although being gone would probably disqualify him, so if I'm right and Rand makes for the gray havens they will no longer have their chief.
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  #450  
Old 07-07-2011, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by finnssss View Post
I guess that depends if you subscribe to the "Body Swap" theory or not. Obviously if Rand swaps bodies, he wouldn't be marked as the Cara'carn anymore.
1. I find the whole body swap theory about as realistic as a kick to my balls not hurting. In other words, I have zero belief in it.

2. The markings are an interesting point, but, that is if I believed in either the bodyswap theory or Rand and Moridin doing the whole fusion thing.


3. Yep, I'm still a proponent of Rand accepting him being one and the same person as LTT and his split personality going away, etc, to be the melding of the 2 people. Until this is actually proven wrong, like Rand and Moridin going all "FUUUUUSION!" on me in A Memory of Light or something, I'll remain skeptical of those two theories, at best.
  #451  
Old 07-08-2011, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand al'Fain View Post
1. I find the whole body swap theory about as realistic as a kick to my balls not hurting. In other words, I have zero belief in it.
I'm quite sure some body swap defenders would be willing to use your excellent experiment to determine the precise likelihood of the theory. They might need to gather a lot of data to do so, but they are probably willing to make that sacrifice.
  #452  
Old 07-08-2011, 05:04 AM
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Does anyone have the exact quote by RJ on PLE? I haven't been able to access Terez's database in two days. I'm wondering if the connection shared by the taveren boys is actually a pattern thing somewhat akin to naming the DO. You don't have to be linked to him but if you name him, he's there.

Any quotes? Or anything similar?
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  #453  
Old 07-08-2011, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwolf View Post
Does anyone have the exact quote by RJ on PLE? I haven't been able to access Terez's database in two days. I'm wondering if the connection shared by the taveren boys is actually a pattern thing somewhat akin to naming the DO. You don't have to be linked to him but if you name him, he's there.

Any quotes? Or anything similar?
Quote:
Question: At the end of The Great Hunt when Rand and Ishamael were fighting in the air above Falme, they appeared in the sky over many places and my question is whether this is something done by the One Power or something down by the Creator, how did they appear in the sky?

Jordan: An effect of the Wheel, really. It wasn't the Creator. The Wheel is more than a simple mechanism. Remember the Wheel can spit out ta'veren, can spit out Heroes as a self correcting device because the Pattern is drifting from what it is supposed to be. We are not talking about something as simple as a spinning wheel at all, we are talking something more along the lines of the most complex computer you could possibly imagine. There were at that time, two, there were false Dragons that had a chance to create a lot of disruption. By the appearance in the sky at that battle, not just in Falme but in other places, those false Dragons were taken off the board because there was only room now for one, for one Dragon.
Is this what you were looking for?
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  #454  
Old 07-08-2011, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
I'm quite sure some body swap defenders would be willing to use your excellent experiment to determine the precise likelihood of the theory. They might need to gather a lot of data to do so, but they are probably willing to make that sacrifice.
Yeah, no. Unless they want shattered knee caps, not going to happen.
  #455  
Old 07-08-2011, 10:59 AM
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How come Rand "I can never ever put a woman in danger" al'Thor, the guy who tried to use the It's not you, it's my enemies for a reason to send his girlfriends away a number of times, chose Elayne for the Sun Throne? Surely he knew that assassinating high nobles and attempting coups was the national past time in Cairhien. Something doesn't add up here.

Last edited by David Selig; 07-08-2011 at 11:05 AM.
  #456  
Old 07-08-2011, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Selig View Post
How come Rand "I can never ever put a woman in danger" al'Thor, the guy who tried to use the It's not you, it's my enemies for a reason to send his girlfriends away a number of times, chose Elayne for the Sun Throne? Surely he knew that assassinating high nobles and attempting coups was the national past time in Cairhien. Something doesn't add up here.
1. Elayne probably has the strongest claim to the Sun Throne of anyone other than maybe her brothers.

2. Rand and his Aiel tamed Cairhein (at least in comparison to what it was before).

3. With Elayne's direct connection to Rand, very few Cairhienen will try to contest her throne. At least not without building up their power bases.

But I think it was mainly the 1st one. And since Rand did not want to try and test Gawyn (who wanted to run him through at the time) and had no idea of Galad's whereabouts, plus Elayne ruling both would finally unify the two countries, it makes things easier.
  #457  
Old 07-08-2011, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand al'Fain View Post
1. Elayne probably has the strongest claim to the Sun Throne of anyone other than maybe her brothers.

2. Rand and his Aiel tamed Cairhein (at least in comparison to what it was before).

3. With Elayne's direct connection to Rand, very few Cairhienen will try to contest her throne. At least not without building up their power bases.

But I think it was mainly the 1st one. And since Rand did not want to try and test Gawyn (who wanted to run him through at the time) and had no idea of Galad's whereabouts, plus Elayne ruling both would finally unify the two countries, it makes things easier.
Don't forget:

4. Elayne is a capable ruler and intelligent young woman more than capable of dealing with the plots of the Cairhienin, even if she does sometimes veer towards the foolish side of brave.
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  #458  
Old 07-08-2011, 02:27 PM
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Of course, with Andor's reverse Salic Law, this personal union of Andor & Cairhien's thrones will end the moment one of Elayne's descendents fails to have a daughter that survives them. Andor's throne will then pass to whichever female relative has the best claim instead of the direct male heir.
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  #459  
Old 07-08-2011, 03:52 PM
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I think so. Unless there are more. Thanks.
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  #460  
Old 07-08-2011, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Rand al'Fain View Post
1. Elayne probably has the strongest claim to the Sun Throne of anyone other than maybe her brothers.

2. Rand and his Aiel tamed Cairhein (at least in comparison to what it was before).

3. With Elayne's direct connection to Rand, very few Cairhienen will try to contest her throne. At least not without building up their power bases.

But I think it was mainly the 1st one. And since Rand did not want to try and test Gawyn (who wanted to run him through at the time) and had no idea of Galad's whereabouts, plus Elayne ruling both would finally unify the two countries, it makes things easier.
Good points. But the thing is, I can totally buy Rand thinking " As much as I hate to do it because of the danger for her (I did my best to reduce it, but it still remains), I'd have to put Elayne on the Sun Throne. I need someone there I can trust and she is good at politics and a channeller to boot so she can defend herself" or something like that. But he doesn't even consider this, which feels really out of character for him, given his obsessive "I can't put women in danger unless they threaten to commit suicide" attitude. And it's not just sending women in battle that Rand has trouble with - he sent Berelain away from Cairhien precisely because he was worried some of the Colavaire's supporters would try to kill her for her role in her demise.

Quote:
Of course, with Andor's reverse Salic Law, this personal union of Andor & Cairhien's thrones will end the moment one of Elayne's descendents fails to have a daughter that survives them. Andor's throne will then pass to whichever female relative has the best claim instead of the direct male heir.
It can end even more easily. If the Sun Throne is inherited by the first born child regardless of the gender, which seems likely, all it would take is for the first child of the Queen to be a boy.
 


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