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  #561  
Old 07-29-2011, 03:41 PM
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Meanwhile, Back on topic...
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mardy Asha'man View Post
My question is this does the 13x13 trick require a circle? From what I remember the description says 13 AS channeling through 13 Myrddraal I can't find any explicit reference to a circle even though it seems heavily implied from that magic number 13.
I know of no reference that explicitly states that a circle is required.

The reference you remember was from a WT-centric POV and does weakly imply a circle. However, the only time we've seen evidence of its use is among Saidin users who wouldn't be b=able to link. For that matter, the 13 Mydraal wouldn't be able to link unaided.

So the preponerance of what little evidence there is leads to the conclusion that linking is NOT a requirement.
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  #562  
Old 07-29-2011, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold View Post
Meanwhile, Back on topic...


I know of no reference that explicitly states that a circle is required.

The reference you remember was from a WT-centric POV and does weakly imply a circle. However, the only time we've seen evidence of its use is among Saidin users who wouldn't be b=able to link. For that matter, the 13 Mydraal wouldn't be able to link unaided.

So the preponerance of what little evidence there is leads to the conclusion that linking is NOT a requirement.
That's what I was wondering about tbh because it seems pretty obvious at this point that it is being used at the Black Tower, but as you say they can't form a circle without a(number of; dont know the amount it might require with men involved) female channeler/s. I wanted to have a look at some of the timeline to see if there was any evidence of this possibly being used before the AS showed up at the BT and if not I was looking at exploring a the numbers of Black Ajah that went on the first expedition (the one to destroy the BT) to see if a circle was viable for the first conversion i.e. the first use of the 13x13 trick with the AS captured


p.s. I'm really sorry if that made absolutely no grammatical sense had a bottle of JD :s
  #563  
Old 07-29-2011, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Alternative: you lot are just uninteresting noobs.
Uninteresting, and too frustrating to be worth bothering with.

Also, yes, a circle is required for the 13-13 trick. I'm too lazy to get you a quote, but the circle itself is mentioned often. It's not as if the Black Tower does not have access to women.
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  #564  
Old 07-30-2011, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Also, yes, a circle is required for the 13-13 trick. I'm too lazy to get you a quote, but the circle itself is mentioned often. It's not as if the Black Tower does not have access to women.
Actually, I can't remember any explicit mention of needing a link for this. Only that they need 13 Dreadlords (of whatever gender) channeling through 13 Myrddraal.
  #565  
Old 07-30-2011, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Actually, I can't remember any explicit mention of needing a link for this. Only that they need 13 Dreadlords (of whatever gender) channeling through 13 Myrddraal.
RJ implies that it requires a circle.

Quote:
Netherlands tour, Dromen and Demonen chat - 6 April 2001

Punisher: Have you ever thought about reinstituting some of the old ideas from earlier books? For example, in The Dragon Reborn you had a situation with thirteen dark sisters and thirteen Myrddraal to forcibly convert someone to the darker side of things. It seems you have abandoned that. Do you think you might have something like that pop up again at some unexpected moment? It doesn't seem realistic for the Black Ajah to abandon the idea.
RJ: I have not abandoned this notion about a circle of thirteen Aes Sedai and thirteen Myrddraal can convert someone to the Shadow. It is not an easy situation to set up, in fact it's a very difficult situation to set up. It has to be worth the effort, you don't go to all of this effort to just convert anyone. In fact it might be better for your plans to manipulate someone against their will than as a willing ally.
  #566  
Old 07-30-2011, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
RJ implies that it requires a circle.
Indeed he does. And so do the books:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
TITLE: Fires of Heaven
CHAPTER: 9 - A Signal

She made her voice light. "Well, your mother is not in our dreams, Elayne, or she would probably snatch us both up by an ear." Moghedien would probably torture them until they begged for death. Or arrange a circle of thirteen Black sisters and thirteen Myrddraal; they could turn you to the Shadow against your will that way, bind you to the Dark One. Maybe Moghedien could even do it by herself... Don't be ridiculous, woman! If she could have, she would have. You beat her, remember?
And so does the BWB:

Quote:
TITLE: BWB
CHAPTER: 6 - The Female Forsaken and the Darkfriends

During the war she held several field commands, proving herself a general of only average abilities. She governed several conquered territories, and her administrations were marked by a level of violence and cruelty that stands out even among the Forsaken. She forced the inhabitants of several captured cities to cooperate in torturing one another to death. Yet while these thousands of brutal deaths were very high on the scale of numbers, they were fairly low in sheer cruelty compared with some of her other actions. It was with small groups or individuals that she took the infliction of pain to what might be called an art. She spent many hours "studying" the ways in which pain could break human will and dignity, and what people could be forced to do to avoid more pain. She claimed there were no limits, except with those who managed to escape her by dying. Semirhage used the techniques perfected on members of the Hall of the Servants, while she was being sought during the Collapse, on captured soldiers and civilians who were then sent on missions against their former comrades. These missions were invariably carried out unless discovered first. Prominent prisoners were always handed over to her to be bent to the Shadow. It was Semirhage who discovered that a circle of thirteen, using thirteen Myrddraal as a sort of filter, could turn anyone who could channel to the Shadow, though she invariably preferred to handle Aes Sedai herself. She hated everyone who called themselves Aes Sedai, and took the greatest pleasure in personally breaking them, by slow increments so they could be fully aware of what was happening to the last.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Uninteresting, and too frustrating to be worth bothering with.
Which is Theoryland's great loss. I can't think of anyone who has done more for the WoT fandom over the last few years - in providing valuable resources and a fount of knowledge - than you have.
  #567  
Old 07-30-2011, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie Curie 7 View Post
Which is Theoryland's great loss. I can't think of anyone who has done more for the WoT fandom over the last few years - in providing valuable resources and a fount of knowledge - than you have.
She's not dead, she just finds noobs annoying. She has always had the option to ignore Younglings. Hell, she's a mod, so she could just delete annoying posts if she wanted to. Or she could just ignore them.

In any case, she will be back. You don't get to 1300000000 posts without both knowing how to deal with noobs and wanting to be here.
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  #568  
Old 07-31-2011, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mardy Asha'man View Post
I was looking at exploring a the numbers of Black Ajah that went on the first expedition (the one to destroy the BT) to see if a circle was viable for the first conversion i.e. the first use of the 13x13 trick with the AS captured

:s
Burn my soul, there is no doubt all 51 Sisters on that expedition were sworn to the Shadow.

It would not be a surprise to hear that every single one is bonded to one of Logain Ablar's lackeys, that same Logain who has done his best to split the Black Tower and likely still believes he is the true Dragon Reborn, and plots with the Shadow to overthrow the Lord Dragon for his own vanity and glory.



Burn me, I know a thing or two about vanity and glory.
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  #569  
Old 07-31-2011, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
She's not dead, she just finds noobs annoying. She has always had the option to ignore Younglings. Hell, she's a mod, so she could just delete annoying posts if she wanted to. Or she could just ignore them.

In any case, she will be back. You don't get to 1300000000 posts without both knowing how to deal with noobs and wanting to be here.
Um, no. She can't. That's part of being a mod on these Boards is that you have the power to and the common sense not to - which she does, hence her absence. But it does get frustrating to consistently to "facts" stated in argument without backing them up, and when a quick search proves that so-called fact wrong. A break is not a bad thing.
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  #570  
Old 07-31-2011, 01:32 PM
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I had no idea you guys were still talking about me, but I hear these things through the grapevine, so here I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie Curie 7 View Post
I can't think of anyone who has done more for the WoT fandom over the last few years - in providing valuable resources and a fount of knowledge - than you have.
There are a few, I think, yourself included. Of course, I happen to have zapped the major resource problem for theory-makers (and theory-breakers), which is of course the sort of thing a Theorylander is interested in - and EVENTUALLY it will be searchable (hint, hint) (someone ring the boss) - so maybe it's a matter of priorities.

No offense to the current noobs. Noobs have always been annoying. Look at Bane - he's been here longer than me and he's still an annoying noob. Uno thinks I'm an annoying noob. The problem with being both 1) notoriously trollable and 2) notoriously good at what I do is that I tend to attract argumentative noobs with something to prove. It gets old. I scare away everyone else usually. I'm of a mind to chill for a while and see what floats to the surface. I can always show up somewhere down the road with my laser gun and zap the unwary.
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  #571  
Old 07-31-2011, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
No offense to the current noobs. Noobs have always been annoying. Look at Bane - he's been here longer than me and he's still an annoying noob. Uno thinks I'm an annoying noob.
To fuck with your head, I think you're an annoying noob.
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  #572  
Old 07-31-2011, 02:02 PM
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You would.
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  #573  
Old 07-31-2011, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bix View Post
**Redacted to remove evidence of trolling** (Ishara)

If anything Felix should be the one hated, he deliberately spreads misinformation and that can really mess up noobs.
Felix and Terez both have their advantages and disadvantages. Overall, Terez is more useful but Felix is more entertaining. I'd disagree that Terez is outright as mean as some people think though. I think she misunderstands why some noobs choose to engage her in combat; it's not because they have something to prove, it's because she's the most fun...
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Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

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Last edited by Ishara; 08-01-2011 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Edited to redact evidence of trolling, Ishara
  #574  
Old 07-31-2011, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishara View Post
Um, no. She can't. That's part of being a mod on these Boards is that you have the power to and the common sense not to - which she does, hence her absence. But it does get frustrating to consistently to "facts" stated in argument without backing them up, and when a quick search proves that so-called fact wrong. A break is not a bad thing.
I never said it was a bad thing. She could just delete posts. It's in poor form, but she does have the power. I just acknowledged the existence of an extreme possibility.

And why do I get the feeling that you are thinking of me specifically with that so-called fact bit?
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  #575  
Old 07-31-2011, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Felix and Terez both have their advantages and disadvantages. Overall, Terez is more useful but Felix is more entertaining. I'd disagree that Terez is outright as mean as some people think though. I think she misunderstands why some noobs choose to engage her in combat; it's not because they have something to prove, it's because she's the most fun...
She's not "mean", she's herself. A lot of times people with overinflated ideas of themselves come off as mean, or as I said, [bleep]. I'm a psychologist so I'm around this stuff all the time. Terez is a good person and has an incredible amount of book knowledge, while Felix just makes stuff up and noobs can read it and actually think Luca is the real Dragon Reborn or something.

Last edited by Terez; 08-01-2011 at 05:07 PM.
  #576  
Old 08-01-2011, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
I never said it was a bad thing. She could just delete posts. It's in poor form, but she does have the power. I just acknowledged the existence of an extreme possibility.
In theory, she does have the power, right now. In practice, if she uses that power, she will lose it, and get into all sorts of (not really specified, as far as I know) trouble too.
It's like a gun carrying police officer. In theory, he could shoot you whenever he felt like it. In practice, that would create so many complications for him that it's probably not worth the bother.

Quote:
And why do I get the feeling that you are thinking of me specifically with that so-called fact bit?
Good question. Why would anyone ever accuse you of having anything to do with facts?
  #577  
Old 08-01-2011, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
In theory, she does have the power, right now. In practice, if she uses that power, she will lose it, and get into all sorts of (not really specified, as far as I know) trouble too.
It's like a gun carrying police officer. In theory, he could shoot you whenever he felt like it. In practice, that would create so many complications for him that it's probably not worth the bother.

Good question. Why would anyone ever accuse you of having anything to do with facts?
I get the whole 'cost of exercising the power' thing. And while my nickname indicates a certain attitude towards facts, I think that as a general rule, what I say is supported.
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  #578  
Old 08-01-2011, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bix View Post
She's not "mean", she's herself. A lot of times people with overinflated ideas of themselves come off as mean, or as I said, **redacted**. I'm a psychologist so I'm around this stuff all the time. Terez is a good person and has an incredible amount of book knowledge, while Felix just makes stuff up and noobs can read it and actually think Luca is the real Dragon Reborn or something.
I've already erased a post and edited another that quoted it. Consider this your first and last warning: DO NOT USE THAT WORD OR DERIVATIONS OF SUCH AGAIN. Or your posts will be edited. Language like that is not acceptable on these boards.
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  #579  
Old 08-01-2011, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishara View Post
I've already erased a post and edited another that quoted it. Consider this your first and last warning: DO NOT USE THAT WORD OR DERIVATIONS OF SUCH AGAIN. Or your posts will be edited. Language like that is not acceptable on these boards.
Jumping in to defend him, the rules thread used to state "we don't care about profanity", hence why I used a swear word in a friendly way in my response to Terez. That's since been removed, but nothing has been added to it that makes clear what the rule is; is mild profanity acceptable but the words everyone knows are big aren't, or is it acceptable in certain context, or what? Might I suggest that the rules should be updated to clarify the position, in order that we don't accidentally upset anyone?
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Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
  #580  
Old 08-01-2011, 02:08 PM
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I didn't know the rules changed.
Also, is it just me or is the post in question still there?
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