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  #621  
Old 08-31-2011, 06:28 PM
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Terez, you don't need to be so verbose.

Here: The Voice at Tarwin's Gap.

Why don't y'all go over there and discuss?
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  #622  
Old 08-31-2011, 06:28 PM
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I'm not saying I disagree with your viewpoint but backing it up with some reasoning (especially for noobs) would be nice.
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  #623  
Old 08-31-2011, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Crispin's Crispian View Post
Terez, you don't need to be so verbose.

Here: The Voice at Tarwin's Gap.

Why don't y'all go over there and discuss?
We did...and I disagreed with her then too. In a thread for asking questions, we shouldnt state opinions as fact.
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  #624  
Old 09-01-2011, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Isabel View Post
1. It was the Creator or the DO in the eye of the world saying : 'I WILL NOT TAKE PART.
Couldn't it also have been the Wheel or madness? I mean, I think it's the Creator, and accept that it could be the Dark One, but these are just my opinions. I don't think any conclusive evidence exists.
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  #625  
Old 09-01-2011, 10:45 PM
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Couldn't it also have been the Wheel or madness? I mean, I think it's the Creator, and accept that it could be the Dark One, but these are just my opinions. I don't think any conclusive evidence exists.
Well the capitals seem to be the same as the DO's in Lord of Chaos. So it seems RJ uses it for Gods. So it's unlikely even madness will be put down in capitals.
The wheel doesn't seem to be sentinal. So that's also unlikely.
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  #626  
Old 09-02-2011, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Isabel View Post
Well the capitals seem to be the same as the DO's in Lord of Chaos. So it seems RJ uses it for Gods. So it's unlikely even madness will be put down in capitals.
The wheel doesn't seem to be sentinal. So that's also unlikely.
Well, we agree on the nature of the Wheel, I'm just unsure sentience is necessary for this.

And madness has precedent:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACoS, Chapter 7
No Min here, no comforting presence to make him laugh, make him forget the Dragon Reborn. Only the war with saidin, and the whirlwind of his thoughts, and . . .

They must be done away with. You must do it. Don’t you remember the last time? That place by the wells was a pittance. Cities burned whole out of the earth were nothing. We destroyed the world! DO YOU HEAR ME? THEY HAVE TO BE KILLED, WIPED FROM THE FACE . . . !

Not his, that voice shouting inside his skull.
Emphasis mine.
I am aware that some people think the voice is really LTT. While I think it's madness, I don't want to argue this point. And either way, here is a non-god speaking in all caps. We seem to know less about the nature of the voice than we do about the real/construct debate.

Edited to add:
I realize it's not always all-caps, but it may be that the 'all-caps' represent nothing more than perceived volume.
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Last edited by The Unreasoner; 09-02-2011 at 03:30 AM.
  #627  
Old 09-02-2011, 04:08 AM
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Default Brandon Sanderson's minor detail revealed in ToM ?

Some years ago there was an argument here about a statement by Brandon Sanderson, that a small detail mentioned from one of the first books and then over and over was supposed to have a big impact on the story. Similar to Vin's earring in the Mistborn.

Was this revealed in ToM or aGS?
If it was what was it?
Or is it supposed to be in the next novel?

In my opinion it wasn't really anything that shocking in ToM. Compared to Vin's earring.
But I also know that Mistborn is cleverly built up for this shocking moments where you think of one thing, and it's actually the opposite. Like with Lord Ruler.
  #628  
Old 09-02-2011, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabel View Post
The wheel doesn't seem to be sentinal.
I suspect you meant "sentient". But it could also be "sentinel" or "sentimental". A neat typo, I have to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
Was this revealed in ToM or aGS?
If it was what was it?
Mat's spear (ashandarei) was needed for getting out of the Tower of Ghenjei. When it was given to him, he had asked for a way out. At the time, that had been unnecessary, as the agreement regarding the red stone doorways required such a way out to exist anyways.
  #629  
Old 09-02-2011, 04:58 AM
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Thanks Gonzo!
So it wasn't the Hat that got him out after all
  #630  
Old 09-03-2011, 01:40 AM
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Okay, have a question here.

Did the Shaido come across any of the Tinkers?
And how would the Shaido have treated them, considering what they did to other peoples?
  #631  
Old 09-03-2011, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand al'Fain View Post
Okay, have a question here.

Did the Shaido come across any of the Tinkers?
Not that we know of.

Quote:
And how would the Shaido have treated them, considering what they did to other peoples?
We don't know for sure.
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  #632  
Old 09-03-2011, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by DrZoidberg View Post
~snip~
One thing to keep in mind, this isn't a spoiler section for Mistborn. I know it's been out and over for quite some time now, but those are some pretty big spoilers to just be laying out there, and the one you mention a few times was spoiled for me on these very forums before I had a chance to pick up Mistborn. Annoyed me then, and I dun think anyone else who might not have picked the books up yet (however vanishingly small that number is) wouldn't might use of spoiler tags for that.

Thankee kindly.

(Then again, if the majority of the Heroes here don't care, I guess it doesn't really matter, feel free to ignore my request.)
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  #633  
Old 09-06-2011, 05:39 AM
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Do we know why when Moiraine was fighting lanfear she was able to go through the doorway when she had already been through once.It seems a pretty big loop hole if it was just because she was holding onto lanfear when they went through. She seems to have a habit of been able to do things twice hat everyone else can only do once.
  #634  
Old 09-06-2011, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by phil01 View Post
Do we know why when Moiraine was fighting lanfear she was able to go through the doorway when she had already been through once.It seems a pretty big loop hole if it was just because she was holding onto lanfear when they went through. She seems to have a habit of been able to do things twice hat everyone else can only do once.
This loophole is not quite as big as it seems, considering the fact that there used to be two doorways: one in Tear and one in Rhuidean. Mat and Moiraine had both been through the one in Tear, and (as Mat found out) they couldn't use that one again. Mat had been through the Rhuidean one when he went to Rhuidean with Rand. Moiraine hadn't, though. Then that one was dragged all the way to Cairhien, and it was there that Moiraine used it to get rid of Lanfear.
  #635  
Old 09-12-2011, 03:12 PM
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When were the Forsaken actually freed? I had always assumed that they must have been released gradually, one by one, but in replying to Crispin in another thread I realised there are flaws in that idea. I had thought that they were released according to the order of "depth of sealing" with Ishamael on top and possibly never truly bound at all and Aginor and Balthamel a layer down from that. But that would make Lanfear the next to be freed, and she appears very soon after Aginor and Balthamel, closely followed (apparently) by all the other Forsaken. Were they all released at once?
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  #636  
Old 09-12-2011, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
When were the Forsaken actually freed? I had always assumed that they must have been released gradually, one by one, but in replying to Crispin in another thread I realised there are flaws in that idea. I had thought that they were released according to the order of "depth of sealing" with Ishamael on top and possibly never truly bound at all and Aginor and Balthamel a layer down from that. But that would make Lanfear the next to be freed, and she appears very soon after Aginor and Balthamel, closely followed (apparently) by all the other Forsaken. Were they all released at once?
RJ was asked about this. Im not sure if it was the TOR Q&A that they ran every week or in another interview but I seem to recall him saying that Aginor and Balthamel were very near the surface hence the way they looked when they showed up at the Eye of the World. They had only just got out as it they had not been out and about for months on end. Ishamael was in a catagory of his own.I think he said that the rest got out together, and it happened sometime while Rand was cooling his heels in Fal Dara after the events of TEotW but before Siaun and the rest of the AS came to visit.
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  #637  
Old 09-12-2011, 06:22 PM
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I did some digging in Terez's wonderful database -Thanks for putting that together Terez and here are some quotes that may shed some light on when the forsaken got out.

Budapest Q & A
Week 20 Question: Why was Aginor so interested in the Eye of the World? He could channel clean saidin anyway so it shouldn't have been an issue?

Robert Jordan Answers: He was able to channel clean saidin, true, but only through the "filter" which had been provided by the Dark One just a short time previously, which meant the Dark One would be aware of him channeling wherever he was.


It does not give an exact date but presumably the two forsaken were given the filter when they got out so it depends what RJ considered a 'short time previously.

Budapest again.

Q: [something about the Forsaken]
RJ: Essentially learned the local language.
Q: They just got free and learned the local language in a few weeks or so.
RJ: A little more than a few weeks.


Lanfear showed up early enought in TGH and she did not sound like a foreign exchange student so she must have had finished her language studies. Its possible that Moiraine was wrong at the end of TEotW when she said none of the other forsaken were free otherwise they would have shown up. Presumably once the rest of them woke up they would have to have had briefinds on the current world, language and customs etc. At that point the forsaken did not want the world to know they were free and given how much things had changed they may not have been let loose until they finished being brought up to speed.

Aginor & Balthamel would not need that as they watched the new society form. Saying that how much knowledge of the world do you need to show up at a given location far removed from any populated area and capture a group with one female AS who was weak and unskilled by forsaken standards, two potentially strong female channelers who had advanced far enought to be able to light a candle on a good day. Mat & Perrin were no threat to any channeler and even Lan... skilled warrior that he was, well we saw how easily the Asha'man were able to deal with the warders who tried to break free their captive AS after Dumai Wells. The only other threat was Rand who did not know what he was doing and had only a fraction of his strenght. Even if he was a danger, there was no way he could take six or seven of the forsaken if they all showed up at the same time.

Given that they were not at the Eye I figure they much have gotten free after that battle otherwise it would have been all hands on deck to deal with Rand.
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  #638  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
EotW, Shadow's Waiting:
Mat scowled. "I was thinking about...about what happened back there. About those words I . . ." Everybody turned to look at him then, not just Rand, and he shifted uneasily. "Well, you heard what Moiraine said. It's as if some dead man was speaking with my mouth. I don't like it." His scowl grew deeper when Perrin chuckled.

"Aemon's warcry, she said - right? Maybe you're Aemon come back again. The way you go on about how dull Emond's Field is, I'd think you would like that - being a king and hero reborn."

"Don't say that!" Thom drew a deep breath; everybody stared at him now. "That is dangerous talk, stupid talk. The dead can be reborn, or take a living body, and it is not something to speak of lightly." He took another breath to calm himself before going on. "The old blood, she said. The blood, not a dead man. I've heard that it can happen, sometimes. Heard, though I never really thought . . . It was your roots, boy. A line running from you to your father to your grandfather, right on back to Manetheren, and maybe beyond. Well, now you know your family is old. You ought to let it go at that and be glad. Most people don't know much more than that they had a father."
Is Thom referring to the DO's method of stealing bodies for his favorite souls to use, or could he possibly be implying that a hero could be "born in to" or placed in a living body at great need? Thought it might be a possibility based on the context. And no, I am not thinking of Olver the Gaidal Cain theory, as it has been reject by RJ, but it may open other possibilities for our ugly friend.
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  #639  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:24 PM
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Is Thom referring to the DO's method of stealing bodies for his favorite souls to use, or could he possibly be implying that a hero could be "born in to" or placed in a living body at great need? Thought it might be a possibility based on the context. And no, I am not thinking of Olver the Gaidal Cain theory, as it has been reject by RJ, but it may open other possibilities for our ugly friend.
The thing is we don't have any evidence that the DO ever recycled anyone before the end of the Third Age. In fact, even the Forsaken don't seem to pick up on it when they first meet the 'gars and Moridin. I'm inclined to think Thom couldn't have been referring to that - and since the dead don't take any other living bodies that we know of in the series I'm inclined to think he might just be referring to a superstition.
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  #640  
Old 09-14-2011, 04:23 AM
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Or maybe he's referring to Mordeth, who is dead, yet takes over Fain's body after having failed (barely) to take over the body of one of the three main characters. Or maybe Mordeth was not entirely unique, and similar cases have existed now and then.
 


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