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  #641  
Old 09-14-2011, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Or maybe he's referring to Mordeth, who is dead, yet takes over Fain's body after having failed (barely) to take over the body of one of the three main characters. Or maybe Mordeth was not entirely unique, and similar cases have existed now and then.
I fail to see how Thom Merillin could possibly have known about either Mordeth or the Forsaken. He's either referring to an old, half-forgotten story, or just a superstition. There's barely a difference.
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  #642  
Old 09-14-2011, 06:56 AM
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Why wouldn't Thom have known about Mordeth?

And, for that matter, there's also this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoD, Chapter 27, A Plain Wooden Box
You know of people who hear voices in their heads? Sometimes, very rarely, the voices they hear are the voices of past lives. Lanfear claimed he knew things from our own Age, things only Lews Therin Telamon could know. Clearly, he is hearing Lews Therin’s voice. It makes no difference that his voice is real, however. In fact, that makes his situation worse. Even Graendal usually failed to achieve reintegration with someone who heard a real voice. I understand the descent into terminal madness can be… abrupt.
Apparently, whatever the deal with Rand and LTT, previous lives now and then do take over current living bodies, and in general the results are not pretty. While that would not at all be nice to have happen in your neighbourhood, it would make a good story eventually, so Thom would be likely to hear about such cases.
  #643  
Old 09-14-2011, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Why wouldn't Thom have known about Mordeth?
He would have known about Mordeth, but not the possession aspect of Mordeth. Why? Because evidently, Mordeth had never done that before.
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  #644  
Old 09-14-2011, 07:06 AM
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Yet Moiraine at least knew in detail that Mordeth was waiting there with the specific purpose of taking over someone who wandered into the town. She told them so at the time.
That proves that it was actually known beforehand. How widely known it was is not clear, of course. Still, considering the fact that Moiraine told them all without hesitation, it does not seem that this was kept secret by the Tower. Thus, Thom could have known too.
  #645  
Old 09-14-2011, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Yet Moiraine at least knew in detail that Mordeth was waiting there with the specific purpose of taking over someone who wandered into the town. She told them so at the time.
That proves that it was actually known beforehand. How widely known it was is not clear, of course. Still, considering the fact that Moiraine told them all without hesitation, it does not seem that this was kept secret by the Tower. Thus, Thom could have known too.
I've looked over the scene you're referring to, and you're right - Moiraine does know. The question, therefore, is how does she know? Did Mordeth just write the AS a letter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordeth
Dear Aes Sedai,

Trapped in Shadar Logoth. Please send someone along so that I can steal their soul and posses their body.

Yours,

Mordeth
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  #646  
Old 09-14-2011, 07:35 AM
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Considering his dislike of AS, I doubt that. It seems more likely that he passed the message on to every passing gleeman instead.
  #647  
Old 09-14-2011, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Considering his dislike of AS, I doubt that. It seems more likely that he passed the message on to every passing gleeman instead.
Why not just steal their soul and possess their body?

Wait... is Thom Mordeth? Then who is Fain?
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Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
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Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

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  #648  
Old 09-14-2011, 08:12 AM
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I actually think that Thom was speaking of the Dragon with the quote in question. Especially with the drop it at that bit.
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  #649  
Old 09-14-2011, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Why not just steal their soul and possess their body?

Wait... is Thom Mordeth? Then who is Fain?
Bela.
  #650  
Old 09-14-2011, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
I've looked over the scene you're referring to, and you're right - Moiraine does know. The question, therefore, is how does she know? Did Mordeth just write the AS a letter?
Because Moiraine had to meet the book's quota of telling someone else one piece of information that might help in some way. I believe there only has to be one such instance in each book, otherwise the series would have ended years ago.
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  #651  
Old 09-14-2011, 07:06 PM
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How old were the Aes Sedai that were with the Jenn Aiel when the Aiel were called together while Rand was viewing his ancestor's lives? And how long had they been with the Jenn, and how long since the Breaking at that point?
  #652  
Old 09-14-2011, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand al'Fain View Post
How old were the Aes Sedai that were with the Jenn Aiel when the Aiel were called together while Rand was viewing his ancestor's lives? And how long had they been with the Jenn, and how long since the Breaking at that point?
I believe, off the top of my head, that that scene occurred a good 200-300 years after the Breaking and that those AS were probably in the 600-700 year old range (pretty ancient even for unbound AS...I think the max lifespan even for a very powerful channeler is around 700-800.

From TSR, its 10 generations from the Strike to the meeting at Rhuidean....so probably at least 200 years...maybe 300.

Of course, the Breaking lasting approximately 300 years so its probably right around the official end of the Breaking.
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  #653  
Old 09-14-2011, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand al'Fain View Post
... And how long had they been with the Jenn, and how long since the Breaking at that point?
Lifespans were extended at the beginning of the list, so a straight count of generations doesn't work -- however, here is the list:
  • Charn greatfather of the father of
  • Coumin father of
  • Jonai father of
  • Adan father of
  • Marind father of
  • Lewin
  • Adan second greatfather of
  • Lewin (mother Saralin) father of
  • Jeordam greatfather of
  • Rhodric greatfather of
  • Comran greatfather of
  • Mandein
As summarized at Encyclopedia WOT
(tSR chapters 25 & 26)

Charn witnessed the destruction of the Sharom and Mandein answered the AS/Jenn summons.

Sometime between Rhodric and Comran, Rhuidean was established. The Aes Sedai aren't mentioned until Mandein's POV.
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  #654  
Old 09-14-2011, 08:51 PM
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Yeah, I was thinking just fathers, not grandfathers...so much longer.
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  #655  
Old 09-14-2011, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold View Post
Lifespans were extended at the beginning of the list, so a straight count of generations doesn't work -- however, here is the list:
  • Charn greatfather of the father of
  • Coumin father of
  • Jonai father of
  • Adan father of
  • Marind father of
  • Lewin
  • Adan second greatfather of
  • Lewin (mother Saralin) father of
  • Jeordam greatfather of
  • Rhodric greatfather of
  • Comran greatfather of
  • Mandein
As summarized at Encyclopedia WOT
(tSR chapters 25 & 26)

Charn witnessed the destruction of the Sharom and Mandein answered the AS/Jenn summons.

Sometime between Rhodric and Comran, Rhuidean was established. The Aes Sedai aren't mentioned until Mandein's POV.
Actually, throughout the generations up to there, it had been rumored that there were Aes Sedai with the wagons. How much there was to those rumors, who knows, but they were mentioned before Mandein.

So about 200-300 since the Breaking? Makes sense. Though, it does show that the Jenn Aiel didn't long survive that meeting, that much was apparent.
  #656  
Old 09-14-2011, 09:02 PM
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If its 200-300 years, they survived 600 years from the beginning of the Breaking...so not too bad I guess.

There are comments of AS coming to the wagons to grab stuff and then leaving again.

Jonai mentions his wife dying "Because there were no Aes Sedai to heal her", etc etc.

Rhodric mentions that "there are 4 AS with the Jenn" as they go across the Spine...but there aren't indications they've been there a long time.
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  #657  
Old 09-15-2011, 01:34 PM
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Your question was moved into it's own thread "What the Aelfinn Said".
  #658  
Old 09-19-2011, 03:58 PM
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What's the deal with the huge pack of Darkhounds in COT? Who are they hunting? Why so large?
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Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
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  #659  
Old 09-19-2011, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
What's the deal with the huge pack of Darkhounds in COT? Who are they hunting? Why so large?
I thought there was an RJ quote somewhere regarding the large pack of Darkhounds that Perrin had seen hours-old signs of around his chasing-Faile-posse's camp in WH; it stated that the Darkhounds in question were after Fain, and it may have even mentioned that Slayer directed them to do so at Moridin's behest (but I could have mentally invented any or all of this, as I didn't direct you to said quote; I'm pretty sure it was on RJ's blog to a reader that had submitted a question about it)...

Anyway, this only answers your question (even if I'm correct about the quote; and the scene described above being in WH - for all I know we're thinking of the same scene) if we assume this pack and the one trolling around in CoT is one and the same...

Heh...heh heh....

....just trying to help....
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  #660  
Old 09-21-2011, 12:16 PM
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Does anybody know what happen to the Jen?
 


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