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  #801  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
(edited by me slightly for clarity)

Cadusane says that Callandor is flawed and it magnifies the taint. The "buffer", it is presumed, is what prevents you from burning yourself out using any other sa'angreal (including the Choedan Kal), but it also seems that another sa'angreal or angreal which a man can use wouldn't magnify the taint - although it's logical to think Cadsuane probably hasn't made a great study of male angreal, and perhaps that is just an effect of drawing tainted Saidin through an angreal. In any case, channelling in a circle is essentially (for the person melding the flows) using another person as an angreal, so it's not possible to burn oneself out, and since the non-leading members of the circle contribute to its power at a lesser level than the leader, it's not possible to burn them out, either. Thus, using Callandor in a circle where the man using it does not lead would grant the man using Callandor the normal protection from burning out that a circle provides whilst also allowing him to draw through the Sa'angreal. It's to be presumed that were he leading the circle, he'd still be able to draw so much saidin through Callandor that he could actually burn himself out, even linked. What the consequences would be for the women in this circumstance, I don't know.

I know that's a little complex, but I think it is a comprehensive explanation of they whys and wherefores of the problem with Callandor.
If a man wielding Saidin via Callandor got burned out, it would probably cause Callandor to malfunction, and feedback into the circle. The results would probably be as bad as feedback from a malfunctioning ter'angreal-death or burnout being worst case scenarios.
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  #802  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinespringBrother View Post
If a man wielding Saidin via Callandor got burned out, it would probably cause Callandor to malfunction, and feedback into the circle. The results would probably be as bad as feedback from a malfunctioning ter'angreal-death or burnout being worst case scenarios.
That's one possibility, but it might also just break the circle, with no consequences for anyone other than the wielder.
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  #803  
Old 11-03-2011, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I think he was probably waiting for her to come in sight so as to not violate the customs of the Aiel. As for her going, I'm assuming the Wise Ones deceived Lan as to where, exactly, Moiraine was going until she reached the shield protecting Rhuidean.
Ok.They can't deceive him about what direction or how far she's going unless the bond is masked or he's distracted. So I guess what you meant is that they provided a "distraction" by tying him up.

But the journey back. Lan had no reason to hold back unless he was quite far when she came out. Or maybe she only unmasked the bond when she came in sight of Rand and the camp. Silly woman I guess.
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  #804  
Old 11-03-2011, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by greatwolf View Post
Ok.They can't deceive him about what direction or how far she's going unless the bond is masked or he's distracted.
They don't need to deceive him about the direction if they can come up with something important she had to do over there.
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  #805  
Old 11-03-2011, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Cadusane says that Callandor is flawed and it magnifies the taint.
I think what she meant is that a circle provides protection because the man cannot overdraw but will still be exposed to the magnification of the taint. So using it means allowing a woman to guide the flows who does not share the "wildness of mind"

Of course, we still have to ask how Cadsuane knows. Or anyone else for that matter since the sword has been locked in the stone since the breaking. Was it breaking era AS that studied it or later? And how?
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  #806  
Old 11-03-2011, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by greatwolf View Post
I think what she meant is that a circle provides protection because the man cannot overdraw but will still be exposed to the magnification of the taint. So using it means allowing a woman to guide the flows who does not share the "wildness of mind"

Of course, we still have to ask how Cadsuane knows. Or anyone else for that matter since the sword has been locked in the stone since the breaking. Was it breaking era AS that studied it or later? And how?
From slightly earlier in the chapter I quoted before (again edited very slightly by me for clarity):

Quote:
Originally Posted by TPOD, 27, The Bargain
“What?” [Cadsuane] did not look up. "Oh. Very few even in the Tower knew what Callandor is before you drew it, but there are surprising things hidden in musty corners of the Tower Library. I went rummaging some years ago, when I first had the suspicion you might be suckling at your mother’s breast. Just before I decided to go back into retirement."
I think you're probably right in your first theory, but this is how Cadsuane claims to know about Callandor. That suggests that at very least someone did study it at some point; it probably was Aes Sedai before Tear adopted its modern form. It might well be that Tear once had a more moderate stance towards AS than it currently does, especially as its current political structuring is relatively recent (FY 994, according to EWOT).
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wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
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Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

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  #807  
Old 11-03-2011, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
I think you're probably right in your first theory, but this is how Cadsuane claims to know about Callandor. That suggests that at very least someone did study it at some point; it probably was Aes Sedai before Tear adopted its modern form. It might well be that Tear once had a more moderate stance towards AS than it currently does, especially as its current political structuring is relatively recent (FY 994, according to EWOT).
Or she found some rare ancient documents from the AoL that weren't lost or destroyed during the Trolloc wars.
  #808  
Old 11-04-2011, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Oden View Post
What does PLE stand for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael
Pattern Level Event. It basically means an event not accounted for by the usual rules of the world such as ta'veren, Wolfbrothers, or the Power, such as Rand appearing in the sky above Falme, or the events at the end of TEOTW, or what happened on Dragonmount. It's possible we might get a more detailed explanation for them in AMOL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crispin's Crispian View Post
I believe the actual terminology was made up at Theoryland, perhaps by the Boss, himself. I could be wrong--maybe it was coined by Brandon. The point is, I don't think it is something we're ever going to see referenced in-book, nor are we likely to get an explanation. The whole idea, IMO, is that it's a deus ex machina device when the Pattern needs something important to happen and the humans just aren't cooperating.
The 'Pattern Level Event' terminology predates Brandon by a significant amount. As far as I know, it was first discussed at DragonCon in 2005:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
DragonCon 5 September 2005 - Tamyrlin reporting

Question: At the end of The Great Hunt when Rand and Ishamael were fighting in the air above Falme, they appeared in the sky over many places and my question is whether this is something done by the One Power or something done by the Creator, how did they appear in the sky?

Jordan: An effect of the Wheel, really. It wasn't the Creator. The Wheel is more than a simple mechanism. Remember the Wheel can spit out ta'veren, can spit out Heroes as a self correcting device because the Pattern is drifting from what it is supposed to be. We are not talking about something as simple as a spinning wheel at all, we are talking something more along the lines of the most complex computer you could possibly imagine. There were at that time, two, there were false Dragons that had a chance to create a lot of disruption. By the appearance in the sky at that battle, not just in Falme but in other places, those false Dragons were taken off the board because there was only room now for one, for one Dragon.
This is the first description of an event that later became known as a PLE. Tamyrlin later refers back to this when talking with Brandon:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BS
Driving Mr. Sanderson (from Half Moon Bay to San Jose), 21 November 2009 - Matt Hatch reporting

Matt: Ok, we'll move on from there. Were male channelers across Randland able to feel Rand's use of the male Choedan Kal when he destroyed it atop Dragonmount?

Brandon: I would certainly think they would have been able to, consistent with what has happened before.

Matt: But did they know that it was destroyed? Is that what they felt, or was it just the use of?

Brandon: I do not believe the destruction of a sa'angreal would be the type of event that you would be able to notice. It is not consistent with what we have seen before.

Matt: Jordan talked about Pattern Level Events, or in other words "Effects of the Wheel". This question was asked of him at DragonCon '05. We wanted to know how Rand showed up in the sky above Falme with Ishamael. Theories... [the recording cut off here so Brandonís answer to my question was lost. I will paraphrase it generally.]

I asked him if Rand's access to the infinite lives while on Dragonmount at the end of The Gathering Storm was the Wheel getting involved directly.

He replied as follows, according to my memory, that there was a Pattern Level Event there, but it wasn't specifically the Wheel giving Rand access to memories his previous lives. Brandon asked for some clarification about how Jordan explained his answer at DragonCon. We were rushed and I could not give him that direct quote, so I was unable to ask more specifically if Rand was seeing the soul's history of lives lived, or if more generically the Wheel displayed to his mind a series of previous generic lives, like it displayed Rand and Ishamael in the sky above Falme. He did speak briefly about the Wheel not physically "touching" Rand and/or Ishamael, which seemed to be suggestive of his initial response that it didn't "touch" Rand's mind to give him access to his own memories. Once again, a more detailed discussion of this subject is worthwhile, especially one recorded.
From this, it seems that RJ never really used the terminology 'Pattern Level Event'. Tam did that (unless there is more to the story that is not recorded in any of the reports).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Oden View Post
Why are herons honored on the swords of master swordsmen?
There is actually an answer to this from RJ if anyone bothered to look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
Netherlands tour, Dromen and Demonen chat - 6 April 2001

Genoveva: Mr. Jordan, why did you choose a heron as a mark for the Dragon Reborn (and swordmaster)?

RJ: I chose the heron because that is a quick supple and to its prey very deadly bird. The perfect avian simile for a swordsman.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oden View Post
How long is an inch in Randland?
How long is a foot?
...a mile?
Most of the length conversions can be found in the glossaries. You can use the composite glossary to look such things up.

In this case, the composite glossary yields the following information:

Quote:
Originally Posted by glossary
length, units of: (2) 10 inches = 3 hands = 1 foot; 3 feet = 1 pace; 2 paces = 1 span; 1000 spans = 1 mile; 4 miles = 1 league.
Another good place to find information of this sort is the BWB.
  #809  
Old 11-04-2011, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Marie Curie 7 View Post
There is actually an answer to this from RJ if anyone bothered to look.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
Netherlands tour, Dromen and Demonen chat - 6 April 2001

Genoveva: Mr. Jordan, why did you choose a heron as a mark for the Dragon Reborn (and swordmaster)?

RJ: I chose the heron because that is a quick supple and to its prey very deadly bird. The perfect avian simile for a swordsman.
So basically, I was right.
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Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
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Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
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Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

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  #810  
Old 11-04-2011, 05:33 PM
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I thought this might be a good place to ask this: does anyone have a link to a decent Taim = Moridin theory? I thought there was one at 13th Depository, but I struggle so much navigating that site for some reason. It's the one theory I'm not wholly aware of the evidence for, and I'd like to check it out fully.
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Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
  #811  
Old 11-05-2011, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by finnssss View Post
Or she found some rare ancient documents from the AoL that weren't lost or destroyed during the Trolloc wars.
Yeah, it might have been studied in the period between LT's death and the formation of the stone. (??) But i recall someone (Verin?) saying that little about the madness is known. How do study Callandor and the madness anyway? Will the researchers survive the experience?
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  #812  
Old 11-06-2011, 03:08 AM
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Yeah, it might have been studied in the period between LT's death and the formation of the stone. (??) But i recall someone (Verin?) saying that little about the madness is known. How do study Callandor and the madness anyway? Will the researchers survive the experience?
I think it was definitely created and studied prior to LTT's death or else how does Lanfear seem to know so much about it and where it ranks with other male sa'angreal?

I tend to believe it was made during the War of Power sometime and there was a specific, perhaps prophecy/foretellings, purpose to its creation. The "Flaw" also being on purpose.

The fact that it is the only known angreal/sa'angreal created in the image of a weapon speaks volumes imo.
  #813  
Old 11-06-2011, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by finnssss View Post
I think it was definitely created and studied prior to LTT's death or else how does Lanfear seem to know so much about it and where it ranks with other male sa'angreal?.
I meant studying the effect of the taint on Callandor. It might have been done while LTT was alive though. My bad
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  #814  
Old 11-07-2011, 08:00 AM
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Isn't it about time to start a new thread for this? I thought there was an agreement of sorts that threads should have a limit? And its no longer easy to manage.
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  #815  
Old 11-07-2011, 11:47 AM
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Isn't it about time to start a new thread for this? I thought there was an agreement of sorts that threads should have a limit? And its no longer easy to manage.
There is a rule, but it requires someone who's a mod to care. And since Tam has gone back to wherever it is he goes, and Terez is in one of her "not posting much" phases, there isn't really anyone else to actively mod the boards.
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Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
  #816  
Old 11-07-2011, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Tam has gone back to wherever it is he goes
Valhalla. He parties with Mickey Mouse and Fernand Point in Valhalla.

And there probably is a thread you could bump for this
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  #817  
Old 11-08-2011, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by glossary View Post
length, units of: (2) 10 inches = 3 hands = 1 foot; 3 feet = 1 pace; 2 paces = 1 span; 1000 spans = 1 mile; 4 miles = 1 league.
I have always thought that there's 12 inches to a foot, not 10.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Oden View Post
I have always thought that there's 12 inches to a foot, not 10.
That depends, obviously, on how many feet you have.
  #819  
Old 11-08-2011, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
There is a rule, but it requires someone who's a mod to care. And since Tam has gone back to wherever it is he goes, and Terez is in one of her "not posting much" phases, there isn't really anyone else to actively mod the boards.
Um, no. There's not a rule. And yes, there are still people moderating. It's just that the action has simmered down and less active moderation is required.
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