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  #81  
Old 05-27-2011, 02:11 PM
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Badly...
Ok. Although the answers i gave are more or less the same. But your thread, your rules.

For berowin though...
That early in the series siuan thought many things that have since shown to be false, not to mention that she was describing a slightly different thing. And I think you misunderstood my position. Their situations and Talents may be unique, but neither is particularly useful. Androl may be different, I'm withholding judgement until I see how he stacks up against dreamspikes. But berowin didn't cut nynaeve off while she was already holding the power, she caught her by surprise. Her so called talent lies in the holding of a shield, not the shielding itself, and I'm sure someone like romanda could match her in one and far surpass in the other. As I said, unique does not make one particularly useful.

Your opinions=\=truth
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  #82  
Old 05-27-2011, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
Badly...
Ok. Although the answers i gave are more or less the same.
Your comment on the True Power and the taint, for example, was wrong (aside from being unsupported). People want to know what's in the books or what RJ and Brandon and Team Jordan said about it, not some random noob's estimation of how things work.

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That early in the series siuan thought many things that have since shown to be false
Indeed, but she was familiar enough with Aes Sedai to know what they could do and what they could not do.

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Her so called talent lies in the holding of a shield, not the shielding itself, and I'm sure someone like romanda could match her in one and far surpass in the other. ...

Your opinions=\=truth
You answered yourself here, bud. There's nothing in the books to suggest that Romanda or anyone else has a shielding talent like Berowin's, but you think we should believe it because you think it should be possible?
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  #83  
Old 05-27-2011, 03:52 PM
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Haha. I will have to be more specific next time. His question regarding the taint and TP was answered by my claim that the two powers were never mixed. My answer came from the first quote to posted for it. Precision begets perfection, so I suppose I could have done a better job there. I was hesitant to sound too certain because as i have stated elsewhere, I think the TP goes beyond that which is woven, and so the taint may have been some unknown aspect. Which seems in line with your second quote. Oh well, done is done.

For berowin though, I say again her talent may be unique, but it is not particularly useful to us. Since there is an upper bound of strength, and a minimum of extra strength needed to break through a shield, obviously at some level a woman can hold anyone. I admit I arbitrarily put it at romanda's level, but even if it is as high as Aviendha, berowin becomes unimportant. Not to mention that the shielding itself is still an issue, and berowin would be hopeless there opposing a forsaken.
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  #84  
Old 05-27-2011, 08:01 PM
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Yeah, her talent is unique. Half the tower COULD not hold a forsaken. What angreal did Alivia have? Berowin's is a talent as it differs from a normal shield. Androl's gateway's though, aren't. I don't think of it as a talent. I say it is a 'block' or 'bar' in a way.

Last edited by enak101; 05-27-2011 at 08:03 PM.
  #85  
Old 05-27-2011, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by enak101 View Post
What angreal did Alivia have?
She had Nynaeve's bracelet-and-rings angreal. Nynaeve figured she wouldn't need it since she had the Choedan Kal. And Androl's gateways are a block? How does that even make sense?
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  #86  
Old 05-27-2011, 09:12 PM
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Maybe she meant Androl is actually quite strong, but has a mental block on everything else. If I remember correctly, the size of a gateway depends on a channeler's absolute strength, but doesn't require all of it, and possibly not much of it. Although he would still need a modicum of power to weave it in the first place and going by Taim's reaction he lacks even that. I do not know. He may very well be unique.

And it doesn't seem like you actually understand my position enak. I will again confess that the line I placed was arbitrary, but only in position, not existence. My reasoning is quite clear. It may be only channelers at nynaeve's strength and above can hold a forsaken. I doubt it, but it may very well be the case. Berowin might be able to hold Morridin himself, but only if she gets it on him while he is not holding the power. The channelers I described could do that too. Perhaps berowin's shield is more efficient, or maybe entirely unique, but for most practical purposes she could only hold a forsaken given to her already cut off. Nynaeve could succeed in cutting them off, and maybe Egwene as well.

A question about the prophecy paitar knew of...
Reading the actual text of the prophecy, it sounds like rand killed the clerk after he went mad, and therefore after the sealing. But as he recalls it Demandred is somehow involved. Am I reading it wrong, or is rand lying, or...?

Also I saw someone saying that Demandred was the weakest male except for asmodeon among the forsaken, citing the bwb. Is this true? I don't have it, so I cannot verify.
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  #87  
Old 05-27-2011, 10:00 PM
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It's quite possibly true that Demandred was only above Asmodean in strength; Brandon implied that they were all very close, so perhaps it's not as big a deal as it seems at first glance.
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  #88  
Old 05-27-2011, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
Maybe she meant Androl is actually quite strong, but has a mental block on everything else. If I remember correctly, the size of a gateway depends on a channeler's absolute strength, but doesn't require all of it, and possibly not much of it. Although he would still need a modicum of power to weave it in the first place and going by Taim's reaction he lacks even that. I do not know. He may very well be unique.
Androl's talent with gateway's seems to extend further than simply being able to make bigger ones then should be possible.
In tGS, Flinn implies in Chpt 5 that Androl doesn't have to wait as long to make new gateway's either.
  #89  
Old 05-27-2011, 10:34 PM
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I didn't say I believed the mental block theory, I was simply trying to understand it. As I said, withholding judgement on that front.

And I realize that after taking into account skill sets and the fact that the forsaken are all quite powerful anyway rank among the forsaken's power levels means little. I was asking more because I was surprised that it was allegedly stated quite explicitly, and I wondered.

Is there a reason the forsaken prefer fighting in Tel'aran'rhiod? Is it just presumed advantage? Or is it some kind of foreshadowing of the final confrontation?

Did rand travel to tear the first time to tear at least partly by entering Tel'aran'rhiod in the flesh, like Egwene and salidar?

Did rand purposely lie to paitar? Why?
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  #90  
Old 05-28-2011, 01:53 AM
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Yeah, the mental block thing was only a thought.
Yeah, it could be something else with not having to wait as long. I'm not saying Berowin's talent is that helpful, just that it's different.
  #91  
Old 05-28-2011, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by enak101 View Post
Yeah, the mental block thing was only a thought.
Yeah, it could be something else with not having to wait as long. I'm not saying Berowin's talent is that helpful, just that it's different.
At the same time both "Talents" predominantly use Spirit.
Relevant? Maybe.
  #92  
Old 05-28-2011, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
Is there a reason the forsaken prefer fighting in Tel'aran'rhiod? Is it just presumed advantage?
The ones that did fight there probably figured they'd have more of an advantage there. But Sammael could have escaped to Tel'aran'rhiod, and he instead escaped to Shadar Logoth.

Quote:
Did rand travel to tear the first time to tear at least partly by entering Tel'aran'rhiod in the flesh, like Egwene and salidar?
No.

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Did rand purposely lie to paitar? Why?
About what?
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  #93  
Old 05-28-2011, 12:24 PM
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I guess he might not have lied. But I don't really want to believe he's nuts, and those seem to be the only possible reasons for his answer to paitar.

As for the no to Tel'aran'rhiod traveling, is this certain? Or just 99% accurate and the logical choice? I always thought it would explain both Perrin and Egwene seeing him, and to some extent his speed. I know rand has a reflection, but not all the time.

Also I have to say thanks for putting this together, I always think of questions during rereads. And thanks for the "rep". I had no idea I even had any until yesterday, although looking through the archives seems to imply quite strongly that catching up to most of you guys is out of the question. How much do I need to start a poll?
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  #94  
Old 05-28-2011, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
As for the no to Tel'aran'rhiod traveling, is this certain? Or just 99% accurate and the logical choice?
I asked Brandon about it and Brandon doesn't believe he went there in the flesh; he believes that there is a unique phenomenon with Rand where he sometimes touches Tel'aran'rhiod while in the real world. He has a reflection there sometimes, like a wolf does. Which makes him more wolfy than Perrin.

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How much do I need to start a poll?
I believe you have to be an Elder to start polls.
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  #95  
Old 05-28-2011, 02:01 PM
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Aha. Wolfbrothers are one thing, shdowkillers another. Still think its Ituralde or lan though, but my issues with rand were never really the lack of a wolf connection. Certainly as dark prophecies, the wolf could represent anything that likes to kill Trollocs.
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  #96  
Old 05-28-2011, 07:58 PM
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Do we know if it's possible for an Ogier to be a darkfriend?
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  #97  
Old 05-28-2011, 09:17 PM
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Do we know if it's possible for an Ogier to be a darkfriend?
This is one that is easy to find in the interview database - the Ogier category isn't very long, and you can also search with Cntl-F.

Anyway, yeah, it is possible. RJ did not confirm that there are currently Ogier darkfriends, though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
Wotmania/Dragonmount Q&A - 9 December 2002

Q: Why can't Ogier channel the One Power?
RJ: Why can't fish sing? Why can't sparrows do the tango? Why can't I figure my own income tax? I'd really like to know the answer to that last one!

Q: Can they be Darkfriends?
RJ: Of course.
  #98  
Old 05-28-2011, 09:33 PM
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Thanks. In future will look in interview database before asking.
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  #99  
Old 05-28-2011, 10:39 PM
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Thanks. In future will look in interview database before asking.
That wasn't exactly the point. As per the title, this is an 'ask anything' thread. But with all the resources available to us as WoT fans, I also feel that it's important to indicate how answers to some of these questions can be pretty easily found. To me, it's not only about sharing knowledge, but also about sharing methods and resources.
  #100  
Old 05-29-2011, 02:23 AM
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Becoming one of the Forsaken involves receiving a mark from the Dark One in return for your oaths; this mark is invisible and cannot be sensed by another human being, even another of the Forsaken, but it can be [seen] by certain non-human creatures, including Myrddraal and draghkar among others. This may play a part in the Myrddraal's obedience but doesn't explain it completely.
This from an RJ quote Terez put up in the first page of this thread.

And it makes me wonder about the mark that was put on Alviarin's forehead. I would assume that traditionally to become a 'chosen' one would have to travel to SG and all the way down the hole to be marked. But in this case the DO is strong enough to reach out and mark Alviarin through SH.

It was always a question for me what that marking meant, and this quote seems to suggest an intriguing possibility. But even Alviarin herself didn't know what the mark meant. So I'm wondering if the DO was concerned over losing so many of the forsaken that he decided to promote new candidates? But why would he not tell her? And why would he give her privileges (controlling fades and whatnot) without taking more strict vows and stuff?
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