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  #141  
Old 05-31-2011, 01:24 PM
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Rhuidean was built (well, finished, as far it was, anyway) a long time after the move into the Waste. When the Aiel first moved there, the non-violent ones were still a solid majority.
  #142  
Old 05-31-2011, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Rhuidean was built (well, finished, as far it was, anyway) a long time after the move into the Waste.
That depends on your definition of 'a long time'; it could have been as early as 200 AB, about a century after the Aiel moved into the Waste.

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When the Aiel first moved there, the non-violent ones were still a solid majority.
That's not entirely clear. The last time a comparison was made, they were still in the wetlands.
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  #143  
Old 05-31-2011, 06:46 PM
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Hey everyone. I have a question, and I haven't found it through searching, if it's on here let me know.

How does Logain, or any male channeler or false dragon, learn how to channel Saidin without burning themselves out?

We know that Rand had trouble even touching the source consistantly until asmo taught him.
  #144  
Old 05-31-2011, 06:59 PM
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The same way wilders do. Trial and error. And the stats for those who die in learning are the same as well.
  #145  
Old 06-01-2011, 05:46 AM
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I have another one (yes, this is going to keep happening as I get deeper into the series and come up with stuff I haven't had answered on previous read-throughs or seen mentioned in the various resources): what exactly is Slayer's connection to the Tower of Ghenjei, and why was he entering it in TAR?
  #146  
Old 06-01-2011, 07:11 AM
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Slayer may not have entered it at all. It is possible that there he left TAR and went back to the real world. This would give Perrin the idea that he had entered the TOG, and as a result, the *finns might kill Perrin when he entered the tower in an attempt at pursuit.
  #147  
Old 06-01-2011, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Slayer may not have entered it at all. It is possible that there he left TAR and went back to the real world. This would give Perrin the idea that he had entered the TOG, and as a result, the *finns might kill Perrin when he entered the tower in an attempt at pursuit.
So it was just a trap? That seems... lame. It also seems like a really clumsy way for RJ to reintroduce the Tower of Ghenjei and have it explained what it is - in a storyline totally unrelated to it.
  #148  
Old 06-01-2011, 08:12 AM
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Actually, the TOG was introduced earlier, when Rand and Mat floated past it on Domon's ship. And that scene also introduced Birgitte as someone who has a tendency to take big risks when it is necessary for her sense of justice. On top of that, it introduced TAR as the HOTH Hiding Place. And as a bonus, it showed that the wolves couldn't see the HOTH there.
  #149  
Old 06-01-2011, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Actually, the TOG was introduced earlier, when Rand and Mat floated past it on Domon's ship. And that scene also introduced Birgitte as someone who has a tendency to take big risks when it is necessary for her sense of justice. On top of that, it introduced TAR as the HOTH Hiding Place. And as a bonus, it showed that the wolves couldn't see the HOTH there.
As I said - reintroduce the TOG. As an introduction for the HOTH, that scene is also pretty terrible. It doesn't tell us that Birgitte is Birgitte (at first I was wondering if it was Lanfear again), or that she's a Hero - it just gives vague hints. Unless it serves some other purpose setting up a link between Slayer and the TOG, there's something odd and clunky about that entire scene that just doesn't match the tone of the rest of the series.
  #150  
Old 06-01-2011, 10:43 AM
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Ok. I got another one.

I just finished EotW on my re-read, and I was wondering if Rand Traveled at the Eye?

If so, was it like what LTT or Ish did during the prologue? Becuase it didn't sound like normal traveling.

Last edited by sartho; 06-01-2011 at 10:46 AM.
  #151  
Old 06-01-2011, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
As I said - reintroduce the TOG. As an introduction for the HOTH, that scene is also pretty terrible. It doesn't tell us that Birgitte is Birgitte (at first I was wondering if it was Lanfear again), or that she's a Hero - it just gives vague hints. Unless it serves some other purpose setting up a link between Slayer and the TOG, there's something odd and clunky about that entire scene that just doesn't match the tone of the rest of the series.
From everything we have learned about entering the Finn worlds in T'A'R, it seems very likely that it was a trap. It does beg the question whether or not Slayer will attempt this same trap with Perrin in the final book. Will Perrin enter the ToG and will they fight in the Crossroads in T'A'R? I think that would give this scene meaning, now that Perrin has become much more experienced.
  #152  
Old 06-01-2011, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Unless it serves some other purpose setting up a link between Slayer and the TOG, there's something odd and clunky about that entire scene that just doesn't match the tone of the rest of the series.
I think it matches the tone of the rest of the series perfectly. Oneof the things that I like most about the WOT series is that the mysteries and plot elements aren't introduced or solved with "reward poster" blocks of narrative. Slayer's escape at the Tower of Ghenjei in the Wolf Dream/T'A'R is only a very small part of several mysteries/plotlines.
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  #153  
Old 06-01-2011, 01:46 PM
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How exactly did olver win at snakes and foxes? It seems the easiest way to prove impossibility would be to assume perfect rolls in an experimental game, defeat would prove impossibility.

Am I supposed to believe no one did this?

This leaves me with only two explanations:

Talmanes was right, they counted wrong. (lame)

Olver's dad put a flaw into the board that was easily overlooked but made the game possible, if unlikely (cool, but unlikely)

Do we have an answer? Not a well supported theory, an answer.
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  #154  
Old 06-01-2011, 01:51 PM
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It's hard to say for sure, since it's definitely possible that they miscounted, but the timing is just too perfect. I tend to believe it was something like the experience with Comar's weighted dice. In fact, Mat never tossed the dice when they played Snakes and Foxes, because he suspected something like that might happen.
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  #155  
Old 06-01-2011, 02:17 PM
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I thought of the luck thing with mat, but even with perfect luck (and so perfect rolls) impossible is impossible. that is why i hypothesized the "perfect game" proof. I suppose it may very well be the case that no one bothered to test the theory of impossibility, after all the books are full of instances where failure to challenge a belief leads to negative outcomes and yet the people accept anyway.

of course maybe he won because the general breakdown of the pattern and reality somehow rendered the game possible to win. i think this may be one of the mysteries that was not intended to be resolved.

anyway, olver is well on the way to becoming a hero of the ages to come. trained to be a perfect soldier, fascinated by adventure, and already doing impossible feats? noal will be but a footnote in the legend of olver.
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  #156  
Old 06-01-2011, 06:28 PM
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Okay, another question, why are so many people fixated on the Rand/Moridin merger and the bodyswap theories? Are there any quotes from Sanderson or RJ saying anything about these?

I know there have been some weird things in the WOT, like Briggitte being ripped out of TAR and Rand's and Moridin's balefire touching, but bodyswapping and mergers (physical, spiritual, or mental) is just REALLY out there for me. With the merger, that's one less soul, an important one at that, (if what we have read is true about Moridin and Rand duking it out through the ages) that can be spun out. And bodyswapping, well, where does that come from?
  #157  
Old 06-01-2011, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Rand al'Fain View Post
Okay, another question, why are so many people fixated on the Rand/Moridin merger and the bodyswap theories?
I'm not into the bodyswap theory obviously, but the merge is going to happen. Min predicted it:

Quote:
She folded her arms and frowned up at him through her lashes. She chewed her lip and frowned at the door. She shook her head and muttered under her breath. At last she said, "There is only one, really. I was exaggerating. I saw you and another man. I couldnít make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and... " Her mouth tightened worriedly, and she went on in a very small voice. "I donít know what it means, Rand, except that one of you dies, and one doesnít. I - Why are you grinning? This isnít a joke, Rand. I do not know which of you dies."

"Iím grinning because youíve given me very good news," he said, touching her cheek. The other man had to be Lews Therin. Iím not just insane and hearing voices, he thought, jubilant. One lived and one died, but he had known for a long time that he was going to die. At least he was not mad. Or not as far mad as he had feared. There was still the temper he could barely control.
Some still insist on believing that it refers to Lews Therin, despite the fact that Lews Therin was never 'another man', and despite the fact that he didn't die at all in TGS 50; Lews Therin is more solidly a part of Rand than he ever has been, since Rand accepts it now and his mind is warded from the taint. Also, the two bolded words are important:
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Abruptly another image was floating his head, a manís face, and his breath caught. For the first time, it came without any dizziness. For the first time, he could see it clearly in the moments before it vanished. A blue-eyed man with a square chin, perhaps a few years older than himself. Or rather, he saw it clearly for the first time in a long while. It was the face of the stranger who had saved his life in Shadar Logoth when he fought Sammael. WorseÖ

He was aware of me, Lews Therin said. He sounded sane for a change. Sometimes he did, but the madness always returned eventually. How can a face appearing in my mind be aware of me?

If you donít know, how do you expect me to? Rand thought. But I was aware of him, as well. It had been a strange sensation, as if he were Ö touching Ö the other man somehow. Only not physically. A residue hung on. It seemed he only had to move a hairís breadth, in any direction, to touch him again. I think he saw my face, too.
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Rand turned about in one spot, staring. Staring at his own image thrown back at him a thousandfold. Ten thousandfold. Above was blackness, and blackness below, but all around him stood mirrors, mirrors set at every angle, mirrors as far as he could see, all showing him, crouched and turning, staring wide-eyed and frightened.

A red blur drifted across the mirrors. He spun, trying to catch it, but in every mirror it drifted behind his own image and vanished. Then it was back again, but not as a blur. Ba'alzamon strode across the mirrors, ten thousand Ba'alzamons, searching, crossing and re-crossing the silvery mirrors.

He found himself staring at the reflection of his own face, pale and shivering in the knife-edge cold. Ba'alzamon's image grew behind his, staring at him; not seeing, but staring still. In every mirror, the flames of Ba'alzamon's face raged behind him, enveloping, consuming, merging. He wanted to scream, but his throat was frozen. There was only one face in those endless mirrors. His own face. Ba'alzamon's face. One face.
Quote:
I know there have been some weird things in the WOT, like Briggitte being ripped out of TAR and Rand's and Moridin's balefire touching, but bodyswapping and mergers (physical, spiritual, or mental) is just REALLY out there for me. With the merger, that's one less soul, an important one at that, (if what we have read is true about Moridin and Rand duking it out through the ages) that can be spun out. And bodyswapping, well, where does that come from?
As to the latter question, it comes from the idea that Rand will need a new body if he's going to survive the Last Battle as the Aelfinn promised. Some also think Moridin's body provides a nice incognito aspect. IMO none of that is needed. But whether or not you find the 'merge' thing to be 'weird', it's going to happen, and IMO that's why Rand has to die.
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  #158  
Old 06-01-2011, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Rand al'Fain View Post
Okay, another question, why are so many people fixated on the Rand/Moridin merger and the bodyswap theories? Are there any quotes from Sanderson or RJ saying anything about these?

I know there have been some weird things in the WOT, like Briggitte being ripped out of TAR and Rand's and Moridin's balefire touching, but bodyswapping and mergers (physical, spiritual, or mental) is just REALLY out there for me. With the merger, that's one less soul, an important one at that, (if what we have read is true about Moridin and Rand duking it out through the ages) that can be spun out. And bodyswapping, well, where does that come from?
I don't know if this merger will result in a permanent end to Morridin's soul. If it does, it may be key to the final victory of the light, I understand the Dark One as a force of evil and opposition, but one that needs agents within the pattern to channel it. The TP is a highly potent incarnation availible only to channelers, but there are lesser forms availible.

One other note:
The merger min saw suggests one death. Aviendha's vision seems to say Morridin's body is the one still around, but I think the "death" is the person of Morridin, not the body of Rand.

If this is indeed the merger. It may not involve Morridin at all, though there is certainly evidence for it. I think this is the one foreseen. But strong evidence and my opinion alone are of course not proof. If this theory is displeasing to you, consider alternative interpretations of Min's vision.
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:14 PM
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Aviendha's vision seems to say Morridin's body is the one still around
I think that the dark-haired kid is more likely to be a result of the bond that resurrects him; Moridin is tall and wouldn't explain the petite features (though neither necessarily needs an explanation). Also, there are no alternate interpretations of Min's viewing, unless one ignores the facts altogether.
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  #160  
Old 06-02-2011, 12:11 AM
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I didn't say alternate good ideas. Although until it happens, these are all theories, and all we know is that there will be a merger, and that there is much foreshadowing that it will be with Morridin. Believing, suspecting...this is not knowing. A .00000001% chance isn't zero. Someone wins the lottery.
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