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  #161  
Old 06-02-2011, 12:57 AM
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It's a pretty meaningless distinction when it comes to things like this.
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  #162  
Old 06-02-2011, 01:20 AM
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Haha. The losers of the lottery no doubt say something similar. Although I think it will be Morridin, and I have bought my ticket, my first loyalties are to free speech and the fundamentals of pure logic.
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  #163  
Old 06-02-2011, 01:35 AM
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What has free speech got to do with it? Anyone can spout whatever opinions they want, but that doesn't make them logical.
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  #164  
Old 06-02-2011, 02:06 AM
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Maybe nothing. But censorship will kill many ideas, and maybe one of them is a winner.

I was just mentioning the two things I will always support.
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  #165  
Old 06-02-2011, 09:39 AM
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I guess my previous question got a little lost in the debate, and that's cool, I kinda forgot about it aw well. lol

The question was did Rand Travel at the Eye in EotW, and if so, was it like what LTT and Ish did in the prologue?

I reposted this question because I have another one as well.

I've searched for all references of the OP, and I don't think I've seen this asked here, but how do you this the first channelers learned to channel? Do you think they had some kind of mental discipline to help them, like the void and the flower, or were they all like wilders, eventually learning how to do it on their own?

Sorry if this question is way out there, but it's something that has been bugging me, because many males in the book already know the flame and void, and the AS teach novices about the flower technique.
  #166  
Old 06-02-2011, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sartho View Post
I guess my previous question got a little lost in the debate, and that's cool, I kinda forgot about it aw well. lol

The question was did Rand Travel at the Eye in EotW, and if so, was it like what LTT and Ish did in the prologue?

I reposted this question because I have another one as well.

I've searched for all references of the OP, and I don't think I've seen this asked here, but how do you this the first channelers learned to channel? Do you think they had some kind of mental discipline to help them, like the void and the flower, or were they all like wilders, eventually learning how to do it on their own?

Sorry if this question is way out there, but it's something that has been bugging me, because many males in the book already know the flame and void, and the AS teach novices about the flower technique.
We know from the glossary to "From The Two Rivers" that it's possible there was one individual who was "the first" to learn to channel. Presumably there would have been a high number of wilders when people first started channeling, but he would have found and taught some, and his pupils would find and teach some, etc.
  #167  
Old 06-02-2011, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Sorry if this question is way out there, but it's something that has been bugging me, because many males in the book already know the flame and void, and the AS teach novices about the flower technique.
You have to remember that its a well known concentration trick used by many elite fighters in Randland so its probably been around a very long time regardless of its usefulness in Channeling. Lan, for example as well as Tam both use it to help with the sword.
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  #168  
Old 06-02-2011, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
You have to remember that its a well known concentration trick used by many elite fighters in Randland so its probably been around a very long time regardless of its usefulness in Channeling. Lan, for example as well as Tam both use it to help with the sword.
This has just popped into my head, and I think I know the answer, but do any female characters, e.g. Birgitte, ever use it?
  #169  
Old 06-02-2011, 01:47 PM
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The posts about Skimming have been copied or moved to a new thread; that one might go on for a while. (I might have some things to say about it in a little bit.)
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  #170  
Old 06-02-2011, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
This has just popped into my head, and I think I know the answer, but do any female characters, e.g. Birgitte, ever use it?
Apparently not for channeling, as they do something somewhat similar, but with a flower opening it's petals. As for Brigitte, I don't believe it has ever been said unless there is a quote about it, but it seems to be more for swordsmanship and channeling (men) than anything else.
  #171  
Old 06-02-2011, 01:59 PM
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Cool

Since my post addressed both topics, it was moved. But it is strongly implied that Lanfear knows of the void (The Oneness) and uses it.
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  #172  
Old 06-02-2011, 03:36 PM
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Since my post addressed both topics, it was moved. But it is strongly implied that Lanfear knows of the void (The Oneness) and uses it.
She knows of it, but she also came from an Age where male and female channeling went hand in hand with eachother. It is never actually implied that she uses the Oneness. But it should not be a surprise that she knows of it.
  #173  
Old 06-02-2011, 06:36 PM
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I always assumed that the flower and the flame were essentially the same. The goal is the oneness/void
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  #174  
Old 06-02-2011, 06:46 PM
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I always assumed that the flower and the flame were essentially the same. The goal is the oneness/void
I've always seen it as;
The flower-open yourself up and let Saidar flow through you.
Flame and the Void-You ignore everything but the flame, you shut yourself off from everything else.

Basically, like everything else with male and female channelers, similar, yet opposite.
  #175  
Old 06-02-2011, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sartho View Post
I guess my previous question got a little lost in the debate, and that's cool, I kinda forgot about it aw well. lol

The question was did Rand Travel at the Eye in EotW, and if so, was it like what LTT and Ish did in the prologue?
The discussion of what was going on at the Eye of the World is on-going in another thread. However, part of this hasn't been explained:

Ishamael used the True Power to Travel in the Prologue of TEotW. That's why it appeared different than the normal method of Traveling. Traveling with the True Power is what produces the shimmering effect. Lews Therin, on the other hand, Traveled using the One Power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
Netherlands tour 8 April 2001, Elf Fantasy Fair - Aan'allein reporting

KuraFire asked about the prologue of The Eye of the World, where Ishamael Traveled, but with a different description than that of usual Traveling.

Jordan said that that was because the Traveling was done by using the True Power. We'd seen the same since, when Moridin Travels somewhere... "The Pattern screamed."

Last edited by Marie Curie 7; 06-03-2011 at 12:43 AM. Reason: typo
  #176  
Old 06-02-2011, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
We know from the glossary to "From The Two Rivers" that it's possible there was one individual who was "the first" to learn to channel. Presumably there would have been a high number of wilders when people first started channeling, but he would have found and taught some, and his pupils would find and teach some, etc.
Actually, that entry was in the glossary of To the Blight, the second half of the young adult version of The Eye of the World:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ

Ring of Tamyrlin: A legendary ring, believed mythical by most people, worn by the leader of the Aes Sedai during the Age of Legends. Stories about the Ring of Tamyrlin include that it was an angreal or sa'angreal or ter'angreal of immense power. It supposedly was named after the first person to learn how to tap into the True Source and channel the One Power, and in some tales, was actually made by that man or woman. Despite what many Aes Sedai say, no one knows whether it was a man or a woman who first learned to channel. Some believe that the present title of Amyrlin is a corruption of Tamyrlin.
And RJ said a little more about this in the Tor Questions of the Week:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
TOR Questions of the Week, August 2004-January 2005

Week 18 Question: Who were the first channelers, and how did they learn? By trial and error? Are there any Ages where channeling does not exist?

Robert Jordan Answers: The first people to discover the ability to channel learned through trial and error, with fairly high casualty rates until they learned enough not to kill themselves accidentally. Their appearance marked the beginning of the previous Age to that of the books, or at least the end of the Age before that one.

Yes, as I have set things up, there are Ages when no one has any idea of how to channel or even that the One Power exists. Our own, for one. (The Wheel of Time turns.)
  #177  
Old 06-03-2011, 03:54 AM
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Is Tamyrlin from the east bay? I live 15 miles from clayton and still have trouble finding anything in that tiny ass town, and reading some interviews he's cruising through there with sanderson.
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  #178  
Old 06-03-2011, 06:45 PM
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I was going through yet another reread and I stumbled across this in PoD, ch. 27. I'm having trouble deciphering what exactly is Min saying and thinking.

Quote:
He eased himself onto the bed, lying back on the heaped pillows, and she snuggled in beside him. Not what she had been hoping for, but as much as was going to happen, she was sure. "Not what I was hoping to use this bed for", he muttered. She was not sure she had been supposed to hear. She laughed. "I enjoy you holding me just as much as... as the other." Strangely, he smiled at her as if he knew she was lying. Her Aunt Miren claimed that was one of the three lies any man would believe from a woman.
So basically is Min lying that she enjoys hug as much as smaking love but Rand sees through this. And this was what her aunt has told her all men will believe? Or am I completely missing the point in here since that explanation sounds pretty.. bad.
  #179  
Old 06-03-2011, 06:48 PM
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No, you got it right. People tend to believe lies that flatter their egos, so a man who was insecure about being too injured for sex would be predisposed to believe a woman who lied and said she didn't really mind - at least according to Min's aunts.
  #180  
Old 06-03-2011, 06:50 PM
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That seems like what she's getting at, but why is it bad? I'm guessing the implication is that men believe that women don't like sex as much as they do, and therefore they would believe that lie.
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