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  #1  
Old 08-20-2008, 03:36 AM
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Default Is Sheriam Black??

Just reading through the interview database when I found this....

Quote:
The Path of Daggers book tour 29 October 1998, Seattle - Kevin Bartlett reporting

Q: When an Aes Sedai turns Black Ajah, does she keep her Warder? If so, how is that accomplished?

RJ: RAFO. Of course, the easiest way is to pick a Darkfriend for a Warder. But RAFO.



Quote:
Netherlands tour 7 April 2001, Elf Fantasy Fair - Aan'allein reporting

Q: This will probably be a RAFO, but I hope you can at least say something, or did you just forget about him? What happened to Sheriam's Warder?

RJ: Uhm... No, you'll read and find out.
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  #2  
Old 08-20-2008, 05:29 AM
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Default Sheriam's Warder is in Salidar..

I didn't realise that he was even missing!

But I do think it is interesting that we have never seen anyone (except perhaps the Dark Ashaman) actively turn from the Light to the Shadow in WoT. With the current state of flux of the Pattern, you would expect people to do so in panic.

I don't think that Sheriam is a candidate, but I could be wrong. There are lots of possibilities on her tormentor and which side the work for. I would say Halima is the best candidate, but that is my own opinion. In which case, who knows Sheriam's orientation.

But I honestly think it unlikely that she is really Black, rather than working for the Shadow against her will. Then again, is that enough? She would be a collaborator at least.

IMO, the RAFO in this case was to do with the revelation of other Black Sisters with Warders. The original 13 Black Ajah have some Warders and those that are not Darkfriends have their bond masked.

http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=43

The RAFO in the second case is a bit unusual. Normally I would say that he is prompting the asker to look more carefully. I would also doubt that he would intentionally make us suspicious of such a minor character when there was some secret behind what was going on.

Last edited by M_2K; 08-20-2008 at 05:32 AM.
  #3  
Old 08-20-2008, 07:31 AM
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I has always been my thought that Sheriam was turned. As already stated we have not seen it before though it is talked about often. It has to have happened to someone, lol.
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  #4  
Old 08-20-2008, 07:41 AM
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I have always thought that she is either black or just controlled by someone either with the OP or by blackmail. Doesn't feel like she has been turned when we got the PoV from her that she, and I paraphrase here: "Regret that she talked to someone in the Sitter hall" (was it the sitter hall or some other group?).

My guess is she is/was controlled by Halima or Delana.
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  #5  
Old 08-20-2008, 03:27 PM
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I agree that she's not Black - if she was, then there wouldn't be a need to coerce her.
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  #6  
Old 08-20-2008, 05:12 PM
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Hmmm, I can't check right now, but isn't it pretty much confirmed that Lelaine was responsible for the Sheriam beatings?

Maybe I'm thinking of something else, it's been a while since I re-read KoD.

I also think Sheriam is not black, I think she was just a red herring.
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Old 08-20-2008, 07:03 PM
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Lelaine was beating the almost-AS Faolain - not Sheriam, although if she did it to one, you could certainly argue that she did it to a second.

I have to say that the "coersion" doesn't exactly lead one to think she was Black, or turned for that matter. If she was turned (and by that I mean the 13x13 circle), then why would she resist?
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  #8  
Old 08-20-2008, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rune420
Hmmm, I can't check right now, but isn't it pretty much confirmed that Lelaine was responsible for the Sheriam beatings?
Callandor made a pretty good argument against that in his theory.
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  #9  
Old 08-21-2008, 01:36 AM
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Well, I have to admit that I never actually thought that Sheriam was Black.

It is interesting though that her Warder seems to be missing (and I didn't even notice).

Maybe Sheriam's beater has made sure he's somewhere else, although if Sheriam had lost her Warder wouldn't it be that much easier to control her?

Perhaps he is doing some secret mission of some kind for Sheriam, or Sheriam's controller, or he might even be trying to stay hidden until he can 'rescue' Sheriam.
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Old 08-21-2008, 06:06 AM
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Default Faolain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishara
Lelaine was beating the almost-AS Faolain - not Sheriam, although if she did it to one, you could certainly argue that she did it to a second.
That isn't confirmed. The way Lelaine puts it is totally ambiguous. All that may have happened are threats made by a vey high up and strong Blue to a young and much weaker falsely raised AS. There is plenty of leverage there, without beatings ever being used. unless I have forgotten some crucial evidence. :P Also Faolain was working as a spy, so that is further blackmail material.
  #11  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:11 AM
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I believe she's more like a causcasian though she may have some Asiatic blood in her with those tilted eyes...
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  #12  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:43 AM
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Clever Dav...


I'm not sure that someone who was turned to the Black wouldn't want to stiill resist, I thought they just couldn't. She could still think about it.
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  #13  
Old 08-21-2008, 08:24 AM
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The beatings would suggest that she isn't black...problaby being controlled by the Black though.
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  #14  
Old 08-21-2008, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaela Sedai
I'm not sure that someone who was turned to the Black wouldn't want to stiill resist, I thought they just couldn't. She could still think about it.
According to RJ, they wouldn't want to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
TOR Questions of the Week, February 2005-July 2005

Week 15 Question: When a channeler is forcibly turned to the Dark, is his/her former personality lost to eternity? Are they in a permanent state of mindless Compulsion? Furthermore, can a channeler forcibly turned to the Dark return to the Light unaided?

Robert Jordan Answers: They are not in a mindless state of Compulsion. Their former personality is twisted, the darker elements that everyone has to some degree elevated while what might be called the good elements are largely suppressed. I don't mean things like courage, which is useful even to villains, but they are unlikely to be very charitable, for example, and forget any altruistic impulses. Call it being turned into a mirror image of yourself in many ways. It is very unlikely that a channeler forcibly turned to the Shadow could find a way back to the Light unaided. For one reason, by virtue of the twisting he or she had undergone, it is very unlikely that he or she would have any desire to do so.
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Old 08-22-2008, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_2K
falsely raised AS.
*arches eyebrow*
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  #16  
Old 08-22-2008, 04:11 AM
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Sheriam could be Black I don't really think of her as a shady character, but there is enough suspicious stuff going there though no real hard evidence for yea or nay. The beatings are not necessarily about her resisting they could simply be her punishment for failure. Personally I think this is the case wheter she is forced to obey or has turned to the Shadow.
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Old 08-22-2008, 10:24 AM
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The beatings are definitely about her being coerced:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
TITLE: The Path of Daggers
CHAPTER 16: Unexpected Absences

The last light was failing as Sheriam approached her tiny tent, smaller even then Egwenes. If she had not been Keeper, she would have had to share. Ducking inside, she had only time to realize she was not alone when she was shielded and flung face down on her cot. Stunned, she tried to cry out, but a corner of one of her blankets wadded itself into her mouth. Dress and shift burst away from her body like a pricked bubble.

A hand stroked her head. "You were supposed to keep me informed, Sheriam. That girl is up to something, and I want to know what."

It took a long time to convince her questioner that she had told all she knew, that she would never hold back a word, not a whisper. When she was left alone at last, it was to lie curled up and whimpering from her welts, bitterly wishing that she had never in her life spoken to a single sister in the Hall.
Also, the last sentence makes it clear that her beatings came about because she made the mistake of speaking to someone in the Hall (presumably Delana), not because she's Black Ajah.
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:41 AM
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Coercion has been used by darkfriends on darkfriends - see Shaidar Haran and Carridin, Moghedien and Liandrin, or Alviarin and Talene. Sometimes evil people aren't the most cooperative when it comes to collective goals

Also, it may be risky for darkfriends to be direct and forceful when dealing with non-darkfriends, as their methods may raise questions and lead to exposure. Most of the time, a darkfriend who leans on light followers will then kill them to leave no witnesses, like Shiaine or Halima. Usually, darkfriends will use more subtle methods then physical abuse when dealing with light followers, especially when infiltrating organizations such as the Salidar Aes Sedai, where secrecy is absolutely essential.
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:57 AM
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I don't know wether Sheriam is black or not, but I tend to think the person who is beating her is...maybe.

Isn't there something that forbids the power for being used as punishment. I remember a line about it somewhere, something like "blah, blah, blah...but that didn't keep the sisters from using the power to swat someone" I know, not even close to the line :P It was Egwene I think, or Elayne when they were novices.

So the person beating Sheriam is using the power, harming her. One of the oaths is not to harm another with the power except in defense of thier life, thier warders or another Sister.

It would take a lot of "twisting" to get around that to beat Sheriam, wouldn't it?

Of course, may have just, proved msyelf wrong... cause Cadsuane, likes giving a good spanking!

~shrug~ I just could never figure out just who is beating her... Lots of people to suspect, however, I've not seen hard proof.
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cary Sedai
Isn't there something that forbids the power for being used as punishment. I remember a line about it somewhere, something like "blah, blah, blah...but that didn't keep the sisters from using the power to swat someone" I know, not even close to the line :P It was Egwene I think, or Elayne when they were novices.
You're remembering it backwards -- the OP can't be used as a weapon but "punishment" requires 'tools,' not 'weapons.'


Quote:
Originally Posted by Encyplopdeia WOT
  1. To speak no word that is not true.
  2. To make no weapon for one man to kill another.
  3. Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme of defending your own life, that of your Warder, or that of another sister.
Black Sisters swear a different triad of Oaths but we don't know what they are exactly -- except that we do know they can lie and can use the OP as 'weapon' without the need to convince themselves they are 'punishing' someone 'For Their Own Good' and not assaulting them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cary Sedai
So the person beating Sheriam is using the power, harming her. One of the oaths is not to harm another with the power except in defense of thier life, thier warders or another Sister.

It would take a lot of "twisting" to get around that to beat Sheriam, wouldn't it?
We have known since the first or second book, that the Three Oaths are basically meaningless because they depend on the AS's perception of whether she's violating an Oath or not.

It wouldn't take a great deal of 'twisting' for Sheriam's treatment to be considered within the Oaths even if her assailant wasn't Black.

Personally, I don't believe either Sheriam OR her Assailant are Black Ajah. I think Sheriam is being blackmailed and coerced by one of Elaida's moles and not by Halima or Delana; H&D would have no reason to coerce Sheriam because Halima had access to Egwene and could gather the information directly if she needed it that badly.

I have no idea who Elaida's mole(s) is(are) but I think Lelaine and Romanda can probably be eliminated -- they're too concerned about their own power-plays to be involved in Elaida's.
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