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  #21  
Old 08-14-2014, 08:09 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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When it comes to the effective range of channelers: make a Gateway, channel an attack weave through it, and close the Gateway. The maximum range they can manage with this is probably limited by the size of the planet they're on, though some channelers are suggested to have interplanetary capabilities.

What is the maximum range of black powder artillery?
I'm not quite sure that it would be simple to achieve accurate intercontinental abilities with this, but I've never actually tried that, yet.
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  #22  
Old 08-14-2014, 08:40 AM
Hugh the Hand Hugh the Hand is offline
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The use of heartstone for cannon barrels would be amazing. I forgot to comment on that part.

As for the effective range of black powder, who knows in our Age we have no indestructible material to see how much of the stuff can be stuffed in there.

And yes, using a gateway the range of a channeler is indefinite, however, using a gateway the range of a cannon is indefinite.

I always thought the range of a channeler was basically how far he can see
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  #23  
Old 08-14-2014, 10:05 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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I always thought the range of a channeler was basically how far he can see
For most that is true, but it seems to be at least in part a psychological limit.

From what I remember, there's a channeler who can't channel beyond some arbitrary range, even when he (or she, not sure of that) can see further. That is supposed to be the result of a block.
On the other hand, RJ has also said that blind people could also channel, and then would use other senses to direct and aim the flows. So in theory at least, a sighted channeler need not be limited to what is visible either.
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  #24  
Old 08-14-2014, 01:27 PM
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For most that is true, but it seems to be at least in part a psychological limit.

From what I remember, there's a channeler who can't channel beyond some arbitrary range, even when he (or she, not sure of that) can see further. That is supposed to be the result of a block.
On the other hand, RJ has also said that blind people could also channel, and then would use other senses to direct and aim the flows. So in theory at least, a sighted channeler need not be limited to what is visible either.
IIRC, that was an asha'man who could not Channel further than he could see; all the rest could target lightening or fireballs into areas they didn't have a direct line of sight to.
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  #25  
Old 08-21-2014, 06:55 AM
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Knight's in full plate armour in the middle ages had arrows and swords bounce off them *but* they were still killed in battle.

Concussive force was transferred through the steel (e.g. bludgeoning attacks) - A trolloc with a big axe swinging at a guy in full Cuendillar armour would still kill him. Without full neck supports his neck would be broken - with them you are looking at shattered shoulder blades and vertebrae.

Then lets not forget the weak points where an "arrow through the eye slit" would kill in plate armour as much as in Cuendillar armour as in steel.

One thing you have got to note that all these regiments and soldiers fighting there has only been ONE mention of shields (to hide behind with Mat's Dragon Crossbowmen); it is all polearms and lances.

Basic armour (Chest + Helm) is given to cavalry and well equipped pike - but no shields, to help against missile fire but that's it. Put simply one major MAJOR lesson learnt from the age of legends is it is better to be avoiding the trolloc blow than to absorb it.

The sword fighting techniques even emphasise 2handed over 1handed - there are no "Roman" legions with body shields and gladius. Using a shield to defend yourself against a trolloc attack would break your arm and leave you vulnerable to the next attack; the same is true with all-encompassing armour; multiple high strength attacks will break through heavier armour by concussive force; so even if the armour is unmarked the body inside will be battered, bruised and possibly dead.

All through the series they talk about "when they met trollocs on an equal footing the men died"; armour, weapons and armies developed from manoeuvre; fast strikes and superiority of ranged attacks. this is why the pike is so popular and one reason the Aiel are so powerful (fast moving, strike force with better close weapons than most infantry. Pike may be great against trollocs and horse... but not foot.

That said... Anyone else thinking "Cuendillar Tanks?" - or in fact Cuendillar pipes and boilers for super high pressure steam
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  #26  
Old 08-21-2014, 07:09 AM
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How about some cuendillar barbed wire to lay in front of the charging Trollocs?
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  #27  
Old 08-21-2014, 06:56 PM
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If it was thin enough it wouldn't need barbs.
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  #28  
Old 08-22-2014, 03:48 AM
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True, but then it would be more difficult to handle even without a battle going on around it.
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  #29  
Old 08-22-2014, 06:30 AM
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Well, it's more of a trap, so it's sorta a pre-battle sorta thing. Still, even in razor/barbed-wire form it's more of an area denial sorta thing, so still not the sorta thing you want to be laying down with trollocs stumbling around.
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  #30  
Old 08-22-2014, 07:59 AM
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But if all of it is thin enough to cut, then it would also cut through your hands (or whatever else you used to handle it) while you were laying it in position. With barbed wire, there are parts of it that are safe to handle, if you have the time to be careful.

And yes, it is an area denial tool, not an offensive weapon. It would have been quite useful during the main part of the battle of Shayol Ghul, I think.
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  #31  
Old 08-22-2014, 09:59 AM
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But if all of it is thin enough to cut, then it would also cut through your hands (or whatever else you used to handle it) while you were laying it in position. With barbed wire, there are parts of it that are safe to handle, if you have the time to be careful.

And yes, it is an area denial tool, not an offensive weapon. It would have been quite useful during the main part of the battle of Shayol Ghul, I think.
Or you could build in handles...even with a little groove near the top of them that you could wrap the wire around so that it's more easily portable. They could double as stakes that you can use to embed into the ground or secure at various heights.
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  #32  
Old 08-22-2014, 10:55 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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Or you could build in handles...even with a little groove near the top of them that you could wrap the wire around so that it's more easily portable. They could double as stakes that you can use to embed into the ground or secure at various heights.
But that would require someone being sensible, and this is the WoT, you know.
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  #33  
Old 08-23-2014, 12:49 PM
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Or perhaps just sensible posters.
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  #34  
Old 08-23-2014, 08:58 PM
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Well, I'm inclined to think that RJ just didn't want to deal with that issue, but as regards the Age of Legends, it could be justified by any number of complicating factors we just don't know about, such as exotic interactions between cuendillar and the effects of stresses on the Pattern caused by the Dark One touching the world or by indiscriminate use of balefire (or both). Besides, it's hardly unusual that military technologies that sound brilliant in theory don't work well under field conditions. You typically don't discover that until you have your soldiers test them, which, for all we know, they may have done during the Age of Legends.

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  #35  
Old 08-24-2014, 03:28 AM
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One drawback might be that Trollocs and Myrddraal could also use such armour, though it would not always be a very good fit. Then those would have a certain level of OP resistance, which would be very inconvenient. The Shadow channelers might not be inclined to make the stuff, but the Trollocs would probably be willing to pick it up of battlefields, so if the Light made it then it could still find its way to the Shadow.
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  #36  
Old 08-24-2014, 08:29 AM
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One drawback might be that Trollocs and Myrddraal could also use such armour, though it would not always be a very good fit. Then those would have a certain level of OP resistance, which would be very inconvenient. The Shadow channelers might not be inclined to make the stuff, but the Trollocs would probably be willing to pick it up of battlefields, so if the Light made it then it could still find its way to the Shadow.
That would be a bit like NBA players stealing coats from a Kindergarten class. :roll:
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  #37  
Old 08-24-2014, 08:48 AM
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Yeah, but those NBA fellows might do that if those coats would make them impervious to (most) attacks. Narg smart.
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  #38  
Old 08-24-2014, 05:59 PM
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A spool of cuendillar wire wouldn't bend into position, would it? As for things like concussive force, it may be possible to build a suit of scale armor that interlock in such a way that most force is distributed throughout the suit, rippling around the person, to be absorbed by a link when the ripples meet on the opposite side.

It would be really, really hard though.

What about a ter'angreal that you feed a thin iron chain, and then it shoots it out and turns to a cuendillar tangle after a delay? Sort of like a web shooter.
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  #39  
Old 08-24-2014, 06:59 PM
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that's a good point, even stupidly thing cuendillar might well be well be unflexible...unless they're small links or something. Still, working a bit too hard now.

As for the ter'angreal, I suppose that something like that would work, although, like land mines, once it's deployed, what do you do once you don't need it any more?

We're not saying that various armour types of armour aren't possible isn't possible, just not likely worth the effort...or requiring lots of effort (for instance, chain mail) or requiring compromise (cuendillar plates would work for plate mail, but would need staps not of cuendillar to hold it together), etc.
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  #40  
Old 08-25-2014, 10:14 AM
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What would Cuendillar armor be used to defend against?

Any channeler would just tie off a weave around the wearer that cuts off their air supply or even easier, just stops their heart. For the non-channeling things it would defend against, good regular armor would work almost as well and wouldn't take that massive amount of effort to create.

Any channeler wouldn't really be slowed down by it anyway making it of marginal value at best.
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