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  #41  
Old 08-25-2014, 11:30 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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It protects against velociraptor attacks.
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  #42  
Old 08-25-2014, 03:44 PM
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What would Cuendillar armor be used to defend against?

Any channeler would just tie off a weave around the wearer that cuts off their air supply or even easier, just stops their heart. For the non-channeling things it would defend against, good regular armor would work almost as well and wouldn't take that massive amount of effort to create.

Any channeler wouldn't really be slowed down by it anyway making it of marginal value at best.
It would still provide impenetrable protection against projectiles and shrapnel, as well as direct assaults with thrusting weapons. That's pretty good. I mean, there's a reason why modern body armour has replaced old timey breastplates.
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  #43  
Old 08-25-2014, 05:00 PM
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Can weaves pass through cuendillar? While you could still smother the person, getting a heart stopping weave through the gaps might be tricky.
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  #44  
Old 08-26-2014, 10:35 AM
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It would still provide impenetrable protection against projectiles and shrapnel, as well as direct assaults with thrusting weapons. That's pretty good. I mean, there's a reason why modern body armour has replaced old timey breastplates.
The cost-to-value ratio is way against it though.

Security/safety is always a cost-benefit analysis. In this scenario, the value over regular good armor simply isn't there. You could build the most secure building on earth but the value for that level of protection simply isn't there. For the people it would be worth protecting (say someone like Rand, LTT, Egwene), they wouldn't need it as their channeling would protect them. Everyone else is pretty much replaceable. For a great general like Mat or Davram Bashere, they're better off wearing a foxhead medallion or simply surrounding themselves with guards and not leading from the front.

Woohoo, got to apply my real-world knowledge/experience to TL for once.
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  #45  
Old 08-26-2014, 11:19 AM
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Then again, Demandred would've been wise if he had been wearing cuendillar armor.

Edited to add: it would also be quite useful for assassins. Makes them harder to kill, thus increasing the chance that they will live long enough to get their target.
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  #46  
Old 08-28-2014, 06:08 PM
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You know, one of the things that always bugged me about cuendillar is how everyone thinks it absorbs and is made stronger by forces directed at it. How the hell would they know? And if it was true, why not channel a trickle at the weakened seals to reinforce them? Granted, the seals are obviously a special case (since, in theory, they are in sustained contact with the TP). Do we know what the other weakness of cuendillar is?

Anyway, I was thinking about the fact that cuendillar is said to absorb force and be strengthened, instead of just being described as unbreakable. It seems like an odd leap to make. But what if they have evidence for it? Maybe cuendillar does absorb force. Maybe if you made one of those things with the metal balls suspended by wires that go back and forth like a pendulum with cuendillar balls, it wouldn't work. Maybe they don't transfer energy the way normal substances do, and cuendillar dominoes wpuld not work. That has some serious implications for cuendillar armor. If true.
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  #47  
Old 11-09-2014, 10:11 PM
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I want to know why they don't make cuendillar swords. I have ceramic knives at home sharp as hell, though annoyingly brittle.
Swords have to have a certain level of flexibility to them, otherwise they shatter, not a problem with heartstone, or they wrench out of your hand. Axes and spearheads and long knives, sure, maybe even arrowheads. A sword though needs to be able to bend and spring right back.
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  #48  
Old 01-20-2015, 05:22 AM
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Egwene and the Aes Sedai can't make weapons because of the three oaths. "To make no weapon with which one man may kill another."

They could probably make armor but shields might conflict with the oaths.

But the fact that they know that it can block balefire suggests that people have thought about using cuendillar for armor.

As for the AOL, maybe they did make cuendillar weapons and armor but it's all buried. Almost everything from the AOL was lost during the Breaking. The largest collection of cuendillar in the entire series fit inside a single room.
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  #49  
Old 01-20-2015, 05:33 AM
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Swords have to have a certain level of flexibility to them, otherwise they shatter, not a problem with heartstone, or they wrench out of your hand. Axes and spearheads and long knives, sure, maybe even arrowheads. A sword though needs to be able to bend and spring right back.
Why?
That only seems an issue if the sword doesn't cut through things.

Make a 5 foot long razor blade, and turn it into cuendillar. Then do this again, but now with the possibility of attaching a handle, so that it is actually useful.
Then you can use the "hand and a half razor blade" to cut Trollocs and Myrddraal into pieces without having to worry about bending and such.

Alternatively, make a really solid bar of iron, give it some semblance of an edge, and maybe a point too, and you have a longsword. That substitutes mass and more mass for subtlety like bending.
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  #50  
Old 01-25-2015, 02:38 AM
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Swords have to have a certain level of flexibility to them, otherwise they shatter, not a problem with heartstone, or they wrench out of your hand. Axes and spearheads and long knives, sure, maybe even arrowheads. A sword though needs to be able to bend and spring right back.
Shatter? It depends on what the sword is made from and how it was tempered. For instance, a bronze sword would not shatter, but bend or even just snap. A steel longsword would chip, maybe bend a bit, but not shatter. A certain kind of iron though will shatter, I just can't remember which kind.

Oh, and to the person talking about scale maail armor abosrbing the impact from something like a warhammer, that's not going to happend without the wearer taking massive internal damage. Scale mail, while more flexible than plate armor and more protective than regular mail, would no sooner stop the damage from a warhammer than a leather jerkin would stop a crossbow bolt. It would simply crush the place it hit.
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  #51  
Old 06-02-2015, 09:56 AM
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Cuendillar is rare even for the Age of Legends. Despite their rarity, Tear, Ebou Dar, Tar Valon and Rhuidean all have large caches of Ter'angreal. In all there are probably hundreds of them lying around. Cuendillar on the other hand, the largest collection in the world could fit in one room, in fact the High Lord had his entire collection in one cabinet. Given the fact that Cuendillar is completely indestructible except to the DO himself working at it for 3000 years with the TP, it's rarity is unbelievable.

That tells me that either it's creation was restricted, or it was a very uncommonly known weave. I'm guessing it wasn't a matter of it being so unknown. My thought is that given it's properties, and the nature of the society in the AOL, it was probably restricted, much like Compulsion.

Think about it... you have a material that cannot be destroyed. If they let people make it indiscriminately they would eventually be up to their eyeballs in Cuendillar that could never be altered, or gotten rid of. It would be like nuclear waste.

Weapons of Cuendillar would not be useful like others have mentioned, not enough mass, no flexibility, etc. Armor on the other hand would be very useful. It could be that Jordan just didn't consider it, but I'm betting it is more likely that there was a societal/cultural taboo against making cuendillar except with special permission.

There is also the fact that cuendillar took direct attention of an Aes Sedai, where as the AOL was an advanced society that used modern or even futuristic manufacturing techniques. Warder Cloak materials are made by Ter'Angreal, it is likely that they were able to mass produce the armor and weapons that their troops used for the most part. Aside from the cultural bias against making Cuendillar that I speculate existed, it was probably a simple ROI equation, mass produce armor and weapons, vs taking up the time and energy of Aes Sedai to do nothing but turn pieces into Cuendillar.
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  #52  
Old 06-02-2015, 12:34 PM
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Consider an AS such as Egwene. She could have turned an entire armor set for herself into cuendillar in something like a second or two, maybe less. Would that really not be cost effective on a battleground where balefire is flying in all directions?
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  #53  
Old 06-02-2015, 02:08 PM
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Plus a man, who often are stronger in fire and stone, would in theory be able to make it faster. Or at least close to as fast as Egwene
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  #54  
Old 06-03-2015, 05:23 AM
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Consider an AS such as Egwene. She could have turned an entire armor set for herself into cuendillar in something like a second or two, maybe less. Would that really not be cost effective on a battleground where balefire is flying in all directions?
Armor with all the joints welded together isn't very useful. Cuendillar is also pretty much impossible to adjust the fit even if she took the time to convert each individual component separately.

A smith/armorer still has to construct and fit the armor before it is converted, so even if Egwene does the conversion there's no time saved over conventional armor.
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  #55  
Old 06-03-2015, 09:22 AM
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But even if the joints aren't cuendillar themselves, then it would still be possible to make the armor far more useful than any non-cuendillar type could be.

The fact that it would take a craftsman (or a CAD robot, if you have a high enough technology level) a while to make such stuff isn't particularly relevant if that time is going to be spend on making armor anyway.

If every Warder had had a cuendillar covered shield (that covering could have been very thin), then far fewer AS would have been killed during the fighting. Wouldn't that have been worth a bit of hassle in making those shields?
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  #56  
Old 06-03-2015, 10:55 AM
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What about cuendillar-plated tanks or apcs?

Immunity to balefire is not an insignificant advantage. Yet it doesn't seem anyone in either age we know of found it worth that much. Maybe it was just a result of no-one using balefire, but they did at one point.

I do get a laugh at AoL'ers being worried about being buried by overproduction of cuendillar. It's a funny nd image, someone stubbing their toe on yet another pile of indestructible garbage and swearing their asses off.
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  #57  
Old 06-03-2015, 11:15 AM
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But even if the joints aren't cuendillar themselves, then it would still be possible to make the armor far more useful than any non-cuendillar type could be.

The fact that it would take a craftsman (or a CAD robot, if you have a high enough technology level) a while to make such stuff isn't particularly relevant if that time is going to be spend on making armor anyway.

If every Warder had had a cuendillar covered shield (that covering could have been very thin), then far fewer AS would have been killed during the fighting. Wouldn't that have been worth a bit of hassle in making those shields?
The very obvious answer is "The author never thought of it".


So...yeah.
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  #58  
Old 06-03-2015, 12:19 PM
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The very obvious answer is "The author never thought of it".
Alternative answer: he did think of it, but decided to pretend he hadn't because it would mess too much with the story.

Cuendillar armor would be of only limited value on Trollocs, since they would still be susceptible to deathgates.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:47 PM
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But even if the joints aren't cuendillar themselves, then it would still be possible to make the armor far more useful than any non-cuendillar type could be.
Of course, any plans for cuendillar armor has to include the reality that out of all the female channelers Egwene could test, she could only find three that could convert iron to cuendillar in less than a couple of hours per piece: Egwene, Leanne, and Bode Cauthon.

All of the "plans" for cuendillar armor seem to assume Egwene's level of ability for mass production; the reality is that cuendillar was rare and expensive because each piece require at least several man-hours and more often man-days of channeling to produce.
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Old 06-04-2015, 04:17 AM
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All of which ignores that Egwene could have spend an hour a day on making such armour, and could thereby have immensely improved the works of dozens of ordinary workers.

Look at how Perrin gets a bunch of Asha'man from Rand to help with making weapons:
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Originally Posted by AMoL, Chapter 1, Eastward the Wind Blew
The stirring wind carried the scent of campfires from Perrin's nearby camp and the sounds of smiths working on weapons. Rand had heard the stories: Power-wrought weapons discovered again. Perrin's men were working overtime, running his two Asha'man ragged, to make as many as possible.
Rand had lent him as many more Asha'man as he could spare, if only because—as soon as they'd heard—he'd had dozens of Maidens presenting themselves and demanding Power-wrought spearheads. It only makes sense, Rand al'Thor, Beralna had explained. His smiths can make four spearheads for every sword. She'd grimaced saying the word "sword," as if it tasted like seawater.
Rand sees the advantage almost immediately. Perrin sees it. The Maidens see it. But in the whole of Tar Valon, either no one understands this or no one dares mention it to any AS.

It is, of course, believable, in that AS are very resistant to innovation, and even more resistant to getting suggestions for what to do from outsiders. So having them fail to do this is quite consistent with how they are portrayed throughout the books.
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