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  #1  
Old 11-10-2015, 11:27 PM
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Default Most Loved/Hated Characters

So I just finished a reread, and I'm curious how people's opinions of characters shifted over time. So I thought we could post our three favorite and three most hated characters for each book. And maybe discuss why, for the odder choices (iow, while I hated Egwene after she started treating Nynaeve like shit, so did a lot of people. But Androl is a fucking douchebag imho, and I'm curious if others share the sentiment).

Here's mine:
TEotW
Favorites:
Rand
Moiraine
Nynaeve

Hated:
Thom
Perrin
Loial

TGH
Favorites:
Rand
Nynaeve
Ingtar

Hated:
Loial
Hurin
Liandrin

TDR
Favorites:
Nynaeve
Mat
Elayne

Hated:
Egwene
Perrin
Thom

TSR
Favorites:
Rand
Nynaeve
Perrin

Hated:
Egwene
Thom
Loial

TFoH
Favorites:
Rand
Nynaeve
Mat

Hated:
Egwene
Thom
Gareth Bryne

LoC
Favorites:
Rand
Nynaeve
Perrin

Hated:
Loial
Egwene
Gareth Bryne

ACoS
Favorites:
Rand
Mat
Bashere

Hated:
Egwene
Toram
Colavere

TPoD
Favorites:
Rand
Cadsuane
Verin

Hated:
Weiramon
Suroth
Zaida

WH
Favorites:
Rand
Cadsuane
Mat

Hated:
Egwene
Thom
Zaida

CoT
Favorites:
Perrin
Mat
Elayne

Hated:
Egwene
Thom
Gareth Bryne

KoD
Favorites:
Mat
Perrin
Faile

Hated:
Egwene
Thom
Ellorien

TGS
Favorites:
Rand
Nynaeve
Cadsuane

Hated:
Egwene
Mat
Gareth Bryne

ToM
Favorites:
Perrin
Ituralde
Galad

Hated:
Egwene
Androl
Rand

AMoL
Favorites:
Perrin
Nynaeve
Lan

Hated:
Egwene
Androl
Mat
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  #2  
Old 11-11-2015, 01:41 PM
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Apparently you are lost. Dragonmount is here.
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  #3  
Old 11-11-2015, 03:53 PM
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Meh. It's a pretty low bar thread, sure. I wouldn't have bothered if Zen Rand wasn't so obnoxious and Androl wasn't so full of zemai he had lagrape. I had forgotten how much thise two bugged me. It's not like we have an abundance of quality threads I'm distracting everyone from. The Companion looks like it won't cover much I care about (how does the Wheel work, how are the worlds laid out, what other secondary purposes the OP has, how does the Horn work, how do Portal Stones work, how does the Song work, etc). I just thought this was a cheap way to generate moderately interesting discussion.

I have an idea for a more fun and substantial thread, but I don't gave the time I need to do it right atm.
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Old 11-11-2015, 05:11 PM
fionwe1987 fionwe1987 is offline
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It seems like an overlong way to show us you consistently hate Egwene, including in books where she isn't even a PoV character (WH). and is barely present in one scene. Yawn.
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  #5  
Old 11-11-2015, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fionwe1987 View Post
It seems like an overlong way to show us you consistently hate Egwene, including in books where she isn't even a PoV character (WH). and is barely present in one scene. Yawn.
That wasn't really the point, actually. Egwene bashing threads have been done to death. People know my position: she abused and manipulated Nynaeve for no real purpose, blackmailed and extorted sisters to submit to a de facto Compulsion (again, with no real need), and said obvious falsehoods to Gawyn (after she had been bound). Which, imo, indicate a lack of maturity, ethics, and mental discipline; respectively.

I'm more interested in whether people found Androl as painfully zemaiy as I did, found Thom's reputation overblown, groaned through the Loial scenes. Did their opinions on Perrin change as quickly as mine? And why the hell do people hate Elayne or Faile? Those two, Min, and Mat are the only major characters who are actually intelligent. Rand's story may be engaging, but he gets more credit than he deserves in terms of leadership ability or cunning. Sure, Cadsuane's smarter (and Verin's even smarter than her), but they're a bit more secondary.
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post

I'm more interested in whether people found Androl as painfully zemaiy as I did
I would have focused on Logain, Flinn, & Narishma myself, but it is somewhat understandable that Sanderson wanted to work with a character that he would create almost entirely himself, since previously he had been little more than a name. I doesn't seem like you'll find anyone who was happy with the result however. Androl seemed to annoy everyone. I am somewhat curious as to what you had actually intended to write instead of "zemaiy", however.

Quote:
found Thom's reputation overblown
I liked Thom, but more so in the early books. He should have died at Whitebridge and Moiraine at the Docks. I'd have brought them back as married Heroes of the Horn at Merrilor, thus fulfilling Min's viewing in slightly less anticlimactic fashion.

Quote:
groaned through the Loial scenes
Like Thom, his character fit much better into the plot in early books than in the later.

Quote:
Did their opinions on Perrin change as quickly as mine
He had bad luck - i.e. he drew the lot of the boring plot lines...

Quote:
And why the hell do people hate Elayne or Faile
Seems like most like Elayne, not Faile. Perrin should have ended up with Berelain. Elayne should have ended up with Mat, but that's a separate issue. I think the main problem with Faile is that her abduction plot was in need of some massive trimming.

Quote:
Those two, Min, and Mat are the only major characters who are actually intelligent
Moiraine also. Those three are my three favorite characters. I really miss the fact that we will never have those other two Moiraine prequels - New Spring was probably my favorite book, even more so than TSR or LoC.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
I am somewhat curious as to what you had actually intended to write instead of "zemaiy", however.
See, you fell for his bait. (zemai=maize=corn)
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
See, you fell for his bait. (zemai=maize=corn)
Well, that is at least somewhat amusingly ironic...

Out of curiosity, do we know the Old Tongue word for Blue?

Edit - Found it, era. So, zemai e era. I'm guessing there is unfortunately no Old Tongue word for wolverine...

Last edited by Kimon; 11-11-2015 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 11-12-2015, 12:48 AM
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I feel the need to point out that bashing any character (and yes, we've had problems with Egwene-haters in the past. Still, any character) may get your post edited or moved.

Me, I'm "special" in that I've never come across a WoT fan who hates Mat as much as I do.



but that's mostly because whenever I meet people like him in real life I instantly hate them. so, you know, a fictional man-child with wild narcissism and kleptomania doesn't get my respect and neither does a real one.
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Old 11-12-2015, 01:47 AM
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I tend to find I don't "hate" any of the protagonists. Gawyn comes close, but he's more an annoying gnat.

I do feel some dislike for Mat. He's redeemed by being funny in his blissful unawareness, but yes, the narcissism and irresponsible attitude, the suspicion and distrust... I can't tolerate it much either.
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Old 11-12-2015, 06:07 AM
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I do find it amusing that the characters I liked/hated the two which completely flip around in my head are Galad and Gawyn.

Up to book 3 Gawyn seems the cool one and Galad just the boring does what he is told sort. Galad is the one to follow the rules exactly and Gawyn the more flexible.

Their lives mirror each others so much (they both had to betray, they both had to kill their commander, they both fight demandred, they both liked egwene) but its almost fascinating viewing their lives and the decisions they have made almost as a scientific experiment.

Subject #1 appears to have made a more mature decision and accepts his lot in life.

Subject #2 appears to have no direction and bounces around like an immature brat.

Both have been treated the same and have been given the same experiences.

I think this was done intentionally by RJ as a way of showing parallel lives and mirror worlds of "what could have been".
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Old 11-12-2015, 06:23 AM
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As some of you may know, I am not impressed by Egwene's character. But that is an assessment based on "how would I think of someone like that if I knew the person in real life". As a book-character, she consistent and (for someone like her) logical in her attitudes, so I do not think RJ was wrong to include her. It is just that for me, Egwene is a younger and more hypocritical version of Elaida. The latter makes no real pretence of being a friend of Rand (or of any male, for that matter), so she is more honest in her approach.
Thus, while I dislike Egwene as a person, I'm not actually sure that I can say that I dislike her as a character in the books. Hate is definitely inapplicable, though that might be an option if I met someone like that in real life.

Of course, when it comes to "people I wouldn't like to meet in reality", Egwene comes a long way behind for instance Padan Fain, so there's that. On the other hand, as a character in the series I prefer Fain, since he is more honest.

Thus, the like and hate questions also depends on the context.
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:25 AM
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For me, at least, Egwene never stood out before I started discussing WoT (on wotmania, back in the day). The sheer amount of vitriol was stunning, and that made me reassess the character. I still wouldn't say she's more of a favorite than Rand, or Cadsuane or Nynaeve, but almost a decade of defending a character does make you think of them as a sort of pet project.

For the large part, I think her arc went well. The troubling stuff about RJ and the ex-girlfriend snuff stuff aside, it was good to see that RJ didn't succumb to the "all good leaders are reluctant" nonsense. Ambition, drive, curiosity... these are great things. Apart from being rarely present in epic fantasy heroes, they're rarely shown as positive attributes in female characters, so I was bound to root for Egwene anyway.

That said, I think Egwene truly came into her own in KoD. Till then, I'd say her story-arc was still in the "training" phase. Only as a captive in the Tower do we see her start amalgamating her learning from all her mentors: Nynaeve, Moiraine, Wise Ones, Siuan... and so, that KoD chapter felt truly earned.

Plus, I still think that chapter is one of the finest examples of the economy of writing RJ possessed when he wanted it. Some of his finest writing.
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Old 11-12-2015, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yks 6nnetu hing View Post
I feel the need to point out that bashing any character (and yes, we've had problems with Egwene-haters in the past. Still, any character) may get your post edited or moved.

Me, I'm "special" in that I've never come across a WoT fan who hates Mat as much as I do.



but that's mostly because whenever I meet people like him in real life I instantly hate them. so, you know, a fictional man-child with wild narcissism and kleptomania doesn't get my respect and neither does a real one.

That Cauthon lout certainly deserves the disapprobation, having no respect for rank and title.

As for that young puppet of an Amyrlin, of course she is held in contempt - it would not surprise to hear she's the daughter of some barkeep from a flyspeck village of no consequence.
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Old 11-12-2015, 03:25 PM
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Egwene is awesome. Elayne, on the other hand, is annoying.
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Old 11-12-2015, 05:56 PM
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My only issue with Elayne is that she is very bland to read about, most of the time.
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Old 11-12-2015, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
Egwene is awesome. Elayne, on the other hand, is annoying.
We agree on something!
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:50 AM
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/pokes head in again

Perrin is the Two Rivers character I find least fault with...although he's boring as hell

The middle aged protagonists are the ones I like most - Moiraine, Lan, Amys, Rhuarc. Tend to not like the older characters who seem nothing but overbearing arrogance, clucks and pfaws.

Rand, Matt and Egwene I basically like but sometimes want to bitchslap for being stubborn/irresponsible

I mostly like Elayne with Avi and mostly dislike her with Nynaeve. Because I mostly like Avi and mostly dislike/revile Nynaeve

Siuan before arriving at Fal Dara thumbs up. Siuan after arriving at Fal Dara thumbs down.

Equal contempt for Faile and Berelain.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:07 AM
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TU- you got some explaining to do. How can you hate Hurin?

Also, I love yks. She is literally the only person I've ever come across that genuinely hates mat.
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Old 12-04-2015, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Ivhon View Post

Siuan before arriving at Fal Dara thumbs up. Siuan after arriving at Fal Dara thumbs down.
You mean Siuan in New Spring? I find that Siuan interesting, but much more bland than the main series one. NS is all focussed on Moiraine, so we don't really see Siuan get to shine.

I like Siuan most once she was stilled. It freed her from needing to be too cautious. Once she stopped worrying about her own survival, she started really kicking some ass.

I've always wondered what would have happened if Siuan was the one who toured the world and found the Dragon, and Moiraine was the one who was roped into Tower politics. They'd have been playing to their strengths then. Siuan was much more earthy and approachable, and likely would have been easier for the TR folk to trust and get along with.

Moiraine was a much more dangerous player of the Great Game, I felt. Siuan is definitely very knowledgeable and understands politics very well. But she's also way too blunt sometimes. She can keep her head down, but Moiraine always does. I doubt Elaida would have caught Moiraine off guard.
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