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  #61  
Old 12-09-2015, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Galad kissed up to her too before he realized that Gawyn was interested in her. She went for Gawyn over Galad because he seemed more real to her, less out of her league, and because Elayne encouraged it.
I thought it was Gawyn that wouldn't make a move on a girl if Galad was interested because Galad saved his life...or am I misunderstanding your post?


Galad and Egwene makes more sense in that it would explain his joining the Whitecloaks after the girl he loves is "betrayed" in his eyes at least by the Amyrlin...and his redemption through Egwene bringing the Whitecloaks back to a normal non-Nazi existence would also make sense there.

Gawyn simply lowers Egwene because he's a bratty, whiny kid whereas Galad could at least justify everythign he did. Gawyn murders two of his mentors to support Elaida (who he despises?) Yeah that makes total sense. Gawyn is a big dumb idiot that drags Egwene down whereas Galad would have at least been an adult and moderating/maturing influence on Egwene. Galad, for example, would have NEVER pulled all that crap that Gawyn was pulling up to and during the Last Battle.
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  #62  
Old 12-09-2015, 08:05 AM
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Galad has a strict moral code that might require him to oppose Egwene. His kissing up to Egwene is a whim not a rule. Gawyn kisses up to her by default.
I kind of agree with this, although with a caveat that 1) Gawyn's moral code isn't really explored very deeply in the books. 2) we don't know if it's a whim or not (on both Gawyn and Galad). Probably Galad's moral code required him to pull back as soon as Gawyn indicated interest/Egwene indicated preference for Gawyn (I can't remember which happened first - that Galad was aware of)

Galad's moral code is his defining characteristic, much like Egwene's ambition is her defining characteristic. it's quite clear that the two would eventually clash, though they might have complimented each other really well. Personally, I think Egwene picked Gawyn because he seemed "safer" and more "normal", especially after Rand. You know, if your ex is The Dragon Reborn, you're almost bound to pick someone... without sharp edges. She overcompensated a bit
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  #63  
Old 12-09-2015, 09:12 AM
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The biggest issue I have with Gawyn/Egwene other than the personality conflict is that Gawyn is really kinda stupid (at least he's written that way). Egwene, love her or hate her, is a pretty smart and ambitious girl who always excels at whatever she does. Gawyn is the High School QB who peaks at 18 and is washing cars for a living the rest of his life...50 lbs overweight, a heavy drinking problem and serious male pattern baldness, etc.

Galad, at least, seems pretty smart, capable, etc. It would have been a more equal match. He would have been a worthy advisor that complimented her much the same way that Nynaeve and Lan work well together.
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  #64  
Old 12-09-2015, 09:56 AM
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Except where it comes in dealing with subordinates...or the speeches. Dear god, the speeches.
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  #65  
Old 12-09-2015, 10:13 AM
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Except where it comes in dealing with subordinates...or the speeches. Dear god, the speeches.
Well, you see, Egwene is good at speeches and dealing with the subordinates but the Amyrlin isn't as...
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  #66  
Old 12-09-2015, 10:15 AM
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Except where it comes in dealing with subordinates...or the speeches. Dear god, the speeches.
The speeches only got really unbearable from tGS. And she also started referring to herself in the third person, as "the Amyrlin". If the point was to show that she was becoming more arrogant, it was inconsistently shown, at best. If not...

As for Gawyn and Egwene... I find Gawyn bland. He does stupid things, but they don't even make sense. And he's as far from compliant to Egwene as possible without being her sworn enemy. Somewhere deep in her heart, Elayne must be thanking her stars she didn't have to deal with Gawyn as her First Prince of the Sword.

Galad and Rand were much better matches for Egwene.
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  #67  
Old 12-09-2015, 10:15 AM
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Ugh. I'd managed to forget about that one in particular until now. Thanks a lot Dav.
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  #68  
Old 12-09-2015, 10:19 AM
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You're missing the obvious OTP...as Dav just reminded me her perfect match is herself. It can even be a ceremony of one since I'm pretty sure she can perform it herself. Or if she doesn't want to do all thw work she can meet up with Perrin in T'A'R for ten seconds and get him to do it.
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  #69  
Old 12-09-2015, 10:51 AM
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The speeches only got really unbearable from tGS. And she also started referring to herself in the third person, as "the Amyrlin". If the point was to show that she was becoming more arrogant, it was inconsistently shown, at best. If not...

As for Gawyn and Egwene... I find Gawyn bland. He does stupid things, but they don't even make sense. And he's as far from compliant to Egwene as possible without being her sworn enemy. Somewhere deep in her heart, Elayne must be thanking her stars she didn't have to deal with Gawyn as her First Prince of the Sword.

Galad and Rand were much better matches for Egwene.
"I know I've sworn to protect you and obey you as both your Warder and Husband but I'm gonna first put on these rings that will inevitably kill me and then go off trying to kill Demandred"...because that somehow falls under "keep Egwene safe".

He'd be about as good a First Prince of the Sword as Weiramon would have made a Great Captain.
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  #70  
Old 12-09-2015, 12:07 PM
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Yeah, but apart from his "I am going to kill the DR", he wasn't particularly evil.

And, frankly, distracting Demandred for a while did probably save a lot of lives, so I would say that was a worthwhile expenditure of his life. Value for money, one might say, if one were a bit cynical.
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  #71  
Old 12-09-2015, 01:23 PM
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"I know I've sworn to protect you and obey you as both your Warder and Husband but I'm gonna first put on these rings that will inevitably kill me and then go off trying to kill Demandred"...because that somehow falls under "keep Egwene safe".

He'd be about as good a First Prince of the Sword as Weiramon would have made a Great Captain.
Aye, strong praise. Both a Noble, and led cavalry. Small wonder he is at the forefront of a discussion of those most loved.
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  #72  
Old 12-09-2015, 02:20 PM
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Yeah, but apart from his "I am going to kill the DR", he wasn't particularly evil.

And, frankly, distracting Demandred for a while did probably save a lot of lives, so I would say that was a worthwhile expenditure of his life. Value for money, one might say, if one were a bit cynical.
He was astoundingly stupid, though. And IIRC he didn't really distract Demandred for any significant length of time; Galad did that, and lived.

Gawyn was a failure in every sense of the word and accomplished less than nothing.
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  #73  
Old 12-09-2015, 02:48 PM
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He was astoundingly stupid, though. And IIRC he didn't really distract Demandred for any significant length of time; Galad did that, and lived.

Gawyn was a failure in every sense of the word and accomplished less than nothing.
Is there anyone who likes Gawyn?

Maybe yks?
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  #74  
Old 12-09-2015, 06:29 PM
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"I know I've sworn to protect you and obey you as both your Warder and Husband but I'm gonna first put on these rings that will inevitably kill me and then go off trying to kill Demandred"...because that somehow falls under "keep Egwene safe".
Right? And he ignores the fact that Elayne can make ter'angreal. Why not have her study these dangerous things? Maybe she could improve on them. But of course, that would mean sharing a risky plan, and running the risk of not being able to put the Light's most skilled channeler on this battlefield at needless risk.

Heck, if he'd shared this plan with Egwene, they could have come up with a better plan. Egwene distracts Demandred with a powerful circle, while Gawyn assassinates him. After all, that is what the rings were for!

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He'd be about as good a First Prince of the Sword as Weiramon would have made a Great Captain.
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  #75  
Old 12-09-2015, 08:35 PM
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Is there anyone who likes Gawyn?

Maybe yks?
I don't even think Elayne really liked him all that much.
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  #76  
Old 12-09-2015, 10:47 PM
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I don't even think Elayne really liked him all that much.
Doesn't he complain she constantly tried to get him into trouble? She probably had a reason, even if she wasn't fully aware of it.
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  #77  
Old 12-10-2015, 01:00 AM
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Galad kissed up to her too before he realized that Gawyn was interested in her. She went for Gawyn over Galad because he seemed more real to her, less out of her league, and because Elayne encouraged it.
I thought it was Gawyn that wouldn't make a move on a girl if Galad was interested because Galad saved his life...or am I misunderstanding your post?
That's true about Gawyn but it's also true about Galad. Before Egwene and Gawyn actually hooked up, Galad was already deferring to Gawyn's feelings for her:

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Originally Posted by TFOH wagon blah blah
"Is Egwene with you?" he went on.

"No," she replied, and he sighed deeply.

"I had hoped... Gawyn was nearly unhinged with worry when she disappeared. He cares for her, too. Will you tell me where she is?"

Nynaeve took note of that "too." The man had become a Whitecloak, yet he "cared for" a woman who wanted to be Aes Sedai. Men were so strange they were hardly human sometimes.

"We will not," Elayne said firmly...
My point is that there's no difference between them when it comes to that upbringing and the way they deal with women. Gawyn defers to Galad for his reasons; Galad probably defers to Gawyn because he's not quite as "lucky" with the ladies.

Egwene made the choice in the end. I can understand why Egwene was axed but it would have been a nice thread to leave hanging, Galad promising Gawyn to take care of her as Gawyn dies, Berelain possibly still in the mix, etc. I always wanted Galad and Egwene to hook up, partly because of the foreshadowing, and partly because of the appeal of the Whitecloaks joining forces with the White Tower.
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:28 AM
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It's never said out right, but I've always assumed that Galad cared a lot about his younger siblings even if they had a different mother. Considering all that he does for his step-mother it fits that he would step aside for his younger step-brother.
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:33 AM
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nah, I perhaps don't dislike Gawyn as much as the average WoT fan, but I don't particularly like him either.

Oh god, Berelain and Galad. talk about your Romance tropes - incredibly beautiful meets incredibly beautiful, diametrically opposing personalities and moral codes, instalove...

On the one hand, Berelain does make sense for Galad - I mean, she's a queen, she's highly intelligent and even though it *appears* like she's used her body to get ahead in the world, that's not actually so. But Galad is all sorts of wrong for Berelain. She would do much better with someone more relaxed, more self-assured and centered in his own being. And, someone who would poke fun at her. Basically, she needs a male Min.
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:44 AM
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Yeah, but she feared that Mat would be "too much like her". So she went looking for someone different, instead.
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