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  #21  
Old 04-29-2016, 05:30 PM
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Wert got that from me. I told him it was a rumor. It came to me from someone who apparently talked to RJ's agent about trying to get in on this, not that she only told me privately; she's been posting about this more generally on social media. I've known her casually for several years, though; she was the one who started the deciphering Google Doc for the first WOTGH.
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Old 04-29-2016, 06:50 PM
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I'm sure she has plenty of that, so hopefully she used better judgment with this deal than with Red Eagle. It'd be sad to see The Wheel of Time crash and burn on tv.
Wasn't lack of money actually a concern right after RJ died...due to massive medical bills? I seem to recall something along those lines. I can't imagine she's hurting too much now thanks to the final books and the Companion but I don't think she was filthy rich either.
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  #23  
Old 04-30-2016, 03:49 AM
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Also don't forget Brandon said she gave him a generous portion of the royalties for his books.
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  #24  
Old 04-30-2016, 12:13 PM
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Wasn't lack of money actually a concern right after RJ died...due to massive medical bills? I seem to recall something along those lines. I can't imagine she's hurting too much now thanks to the final books and the Companion but I don't think she was filthy rich either.
Can't remember anything like that. There was some question about what would happen with the advance payment that RJ had gotten on the last books now that it wasn't certain whether they would happen.
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  #25  
Old 04-30-2016, 01:19 PM
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If it will ever go live it'll be just like sword of truth series in a sense that everything will be rehashed/truncated (if you've ever seen that one and read even the first 2 books by Goodkind you know what I'm talking about), but, while for the SOT it was good (I actually think the show was way better than books), with the WoT it won't work most probably and the plot and everything else shall be ruined.
Sadly, I don't think WoT will ever be successful as a TV show.
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Old 04-30-2016, 01:52 PM
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Studios have seen how successful a series like this can be, but as you've said, they've also seen how bad they can be with Sword of Truth. There's also the more middle road with the Shannara series, which wasn't stellar, but has been renewed.

As Frenzy said above it doesn't have as much Tits & Gore, as Game of Thrones, but there could be more fight scenes for the gore, it'll just be more Shadowspawn murder than human murder. As for the tits, well, they could expand upon the Sheniar Baths for some of that.

If a studio realizes that there is potential and they put time & money into it, it could work. If they do what Red Eagle did, well, then it'll suck.
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  #27  
Old 04-30-2016, 02:50 PM
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Studios have seen how successful a series like this can be, but as you've said, they've also seen how bad they can be with Sword of Truth. There's also the more middle road with the Shannara series, which wasn't stellar, but has been renewed.

As Frenzy said above it doesn't have as much Tits & Gore, as Game of Thrones, but there could be more fight scenes for the gore, it'll just be more Shadowspawn murder than human murder. As for the tits, well, they could expand upon the Sheniar Baths for some of that.

If a studio realizes that there is potential and they put time & money into it, it could work. If they do what Red Eagle did, well, then it'll suck.
Channeling will also be a potentially disastrous problem. How will they manage to show that effectively in a live action show? What about Trollocs and Ogier? The Green Man? All of this could be adapted well if animated. But live action? I think the chances of a live action show coming off very badly is incredibly high. It's not just an issue of too many characters and too many books. aSoIaF is at its heart just a costume drama with an exciting mix of politics, violence, and nudity. It's a far simpler adaptation than WoT.

An animated version could also be potentially awful, and certainly would not guarantee something as beautiful say as those old Rankin-Bass 1970s versions of The Hobbit and The Last Unicorn, but something similar to either of those could make for an excellent version of WoT. Live action in contrast just seems far to likely to be either silly or nearly unrecognizable to the source material.
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  #28  
Old 04-30-2016, 06:24 PM
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I'm certainly not saying it's going to be easy to pull off. Like I said, there's potential there, but a studio is going to have to put time & money (and CGI for the more fantastic elements). Animated could be easier, but if you're looking for a similar audience to GoT animated isn't going to work...but we've had the 'what format would be best for a WoT adaption' argument more than a few times here. Harry Potter pulled off all sorta of fantastic elements, so it's not impossible to give Shadowspawn a chance. It's going to need a good art team, or a good director (I'd love if Guillermo Del Toro for instance wound up with this project) to do effectively.

The other problem is Show & Tell. Do you show the Channeling, Min's Auras or Grey Men wandering past Guards as if the camera were a person present, or do you do the Exposition and just have the characters explain what happened afterwards? Each has it's own pros & cons. Like Rand's scene in Lord of Chaos trying to bring down his Shield? How do you do that? You could just have Min running at the chest where he is and then have it explode, then have him explain it to Min afterwards. Or you could have a scene in which Rand is on some metaphysical landscape with another actor cast as Lews Therin beside him explaining it.

Lews himself is going to be...interesting to pull off. Do you just have some random voice-overs yelling "Ilyena" randomly? That'd be just as difficult to pull off animated as live action. There are problems, but if they get some decent people to sit down, and plan it, and have a studio that gives those people leeway, rather than jerking their budget around, then it could be possible. I give it at most like a non-zero chance of happening because unless it's a MCU level blockbuster there's no evidence of that ever happening in Hollywood...but it is a non-zero chance. It could happen.
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  #29  
Old 04-30-2016, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ShadowbaneX View Post
I'm certainly not saying it's going to be easy to pull off. Like I said, there's potential there, but a studio is going to have to put time & money (and CGI for the more fantastic elements). Animated could be easier, but if you're looking for a similar audience to GoT animated isn't going to work...but we've had the 'what format would be best for a WoT adaption' argument more than a few times here. Harry Potter pulled off all sorta of fantastic elements, so it's not impossible to give Shadowspawn a chance. It's going to need a good art team, or a good director (I'd love if Guillermo Del Toro for instance wound up with this project) to do effectively.

The other problem is Show & Tell. Do you show the Channeling, Min's Auras or Grey Men wandering past Guards as if the camera were a person present, or do you do the Exposition and just have the characters explain what happened afterwards? Each has it's own pros & cons. Like Rand's scene in Lord of Chaos trying to bring down his Shield? How do you do that? You could just have Min running at the chest where he is and then have it explode, then have him explain it to Min afterwards. Or you could have a scene in which Rand is on some metaphysical landscape with another actor cast as Lews Therin beside him explaining it.

Lews himself is going to be...interesting to pull off. Do you just have some random voice-overs yelling "Ilyena" randomly? That'd be just as difficult to pull off animated as live action. There are problems, but if they get some decent people to sit down, and plan it, and have a studio that gives those people leeway, rather than jerking their budget around, then it could be possible. I give it at most like a non-zero chance of happening because unless it's a MCU level blockbuster there's no evidence of that ever happening in Hollywood...but it is a non-zero chance. It could happen.

The LTT thing is interesting. I'm imagining some kind of dreamscape reality where they both converse with each other, either Rand by himself or with some kind of entity similar to LTT. This is several seasons in though, at least until LTT really gets going.

The green man is a simple problem when all is considered. He's in the books for a bout whole 5 min of film. "Hey how are you doing, this is my quest, oops, bad ppl are coming.... aaaand I died and became a tree".

Channeling is probably just explained as threads that you see but no one else unless a channeler, then that's a rule, not really have to explain thread coloring etc, just explain it's complex and see the result. Maybe use a few key colors for different things, like mind altering stuff.

There are tons of cinematics to be thrown at this, none are really out of bounds for a studio.
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  #30  
Old 04-30-2016, 10:01 PM
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The LTT thing is interesting. I'm imagining some kind of dreamscape reality where they both converse with each other, either Rand by himself or with some kind of entity similar to LTT. This is several seasons in though, at least until LTT really gets going.

The green man is a simple problem when all is considered. He's in the books for a bout whole 5 min of film. "Hey how are you doing, this is my quest, oops, bad ppl are coming.... aaaand I died and became a tree".

Channeling is probably just explained as threads that you see but no one else unless a channeler, then that's a rule, not really have to explain thread coloring etc, just explain it's complex and see the result. Maybe use a few key colors for different things, like mind altering stuff.

There are tons of cinematics to be thrown at this, none are really out of bounds for a studio.
Gonna need a lot of CGI effects for the big battles later on. The first book or two, maybe even three, should be okay with extras. After that though? We're talking LOTR and Hobbit levels of CGI.
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  #31  
Old 04-30-2016, 10:13 PM
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Gonna need a lot of CGI effects for the big battles later on. The first book or two, maybe even three, should be okay with extras. After that though? We're talking LOTR and Hobbit levels of CGI.
Jackson's Hobbit was so bad that I couldn't finish watching his second movie even while on a flight from Chicago to Rome.
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  #32  
Old 04-30-2016, 11:24 PM
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The LTT thing is interesting. I'm imagining some kind of dreamscape reality where they both converse with each other, either Rand by himself or with some kind of entity similar to LTT. This is several seasons in though, at least until LTT really gets going.

The green man is a simple problem when all is considered. He's in the books for a bout whole 5 min of film. "Hey how are you doing, this is my quest, oops, bad ppl are coming.... aaaand I died and became a tree".

Channeling is probably just explained as threads that you see but no one else unless a channeler, then that's a rule, not really have to explain thread coloring etc, just explain it's complex and see the result. Maybe use a few key colors for different things, like mind altering stuff.

There are tons of cinematics to be thrown at this, none are really out of bounds for a studio.
At first LTT is going to be nothing. Then just a voice. Rand's chest? Or when he's locked up in Far Madding? Dragonmount? Those will be different...if the series gets that far.

Even 5 minutes, probably more, of CGI for the Green Man, the Eye & then the Forsaken who's names I don't feel like looking up will be a lot of CGI.
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  #33  
Old 05-01-2016, 12:47 AM
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A few thoughts:

Channeling could be done with mostly practical effects. Sure, you'd need CGI to make the actual threads appear, but the effects of the channeling--like explosions, people getting tossed around, etc.--can be done practically. So say Egwene blows up a building in Falme, they could use CGI to make the threads appear (which can't be that expensive, I hope--I mean, they're just squiggly lines, not dragons) and then actually blow up a building with explosives.

Have Trollocs be tall people in costumes, not CGI. Still expensive, but cheaper I assume than making them all in computers. Same with Loial. He doesn't have to actually be 10 feet tall. GoT got a guy who's 7'11" to play giants. As for the Green Man, either change him so he's not 15-20 feet tall, or use forced perspective to make a tall guy look even taller.

I mentioned this in my episode guide thread, but they could easily get away with building four sets for the vast majority of the indoor scenes: a common room, a palace hallway, a palace throne room, and a palace bedroom/royal chambers. Then just get the decoraters to redo the whole place depending on which palace they're supposed to be in. They could even have replaceable walls or something.

Filming outside in the middle of nowhere can be filmed pretty much anywhere. Europe or New Zealand seem like the go-to places for these types of things, but the Aiel Waste, IMO, should be shot in the American southwest.

Filming outdoor scenes in city streets could be tricky, but GoT shows that it's relatively easy to shoot in a modern city and pass it off as medieval.

For aerial shots of cities, it would be cool if they could build large miniatures of each one, like in LotR. It would look better than CGI, I think, though I'm guessing it wouldn't be cheap to build, say, a twenty foot wide model of Tar Valon.

And all fighting should be practical. For larger battles like Dumai's Wells, pan back to show a brief CGI shot once or twice, then keep the rest more intimate fighting. Thankfully the battles (and the need for CGI in general) are few early on before steadily increasing. If the show is as successful as GoT (a huge if, obviously) they'd make enough to allow for more and more special effects as the series goes on.
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  #34  
Old 05-01-2016, 02:22 AM
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Jackson's Hobbit was so bad that I couldn't finish watching his second movie even while on a flight from Chicago to Rome.
I was more referencing the fact that both used large amounts of CGI for the armies and large numbers of troops. Plot of The Hobbit trilogy is something else entirely.

@rand,
There is one place where CGI will need to be done in Eye of the World. When the Trollocs are chasing Rand and the gang all over the place and eventually towards Shadar Logoth. That was a force of several hundred Trollocs.
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Old 05-01-2016, 10:25 AM
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So you either make several hundred Trolloc costumes, or cut the number down to fifty or so.
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Old 05-01-2016, 11:03 AM
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I was more referencing the fact that both used large amounts of CGI for the armies and large numbers of troops. Plot of The Hobbit trilogy is something else entirely.

@rand,
There is one place where CGI will need to be done in Eye of the World. When the Trollocs are chasing Rand and the gang all over the place and eventually towards Shadar Logoth. That was a force of several hundred Trollocs.
I'd still prefer something like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y30L...XJa_S&index=11
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Old 05-01-2016, 01:24 PM
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I'd still prefer something like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y30L...XJa_S&index=11
I think this is a better representation of what animation is capable of, today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCrHwtCLfZc

And frankly, the look, feel, and atmosphere of the animation of Legend of Korra has always struck me as perfect for WoT. Almost all of it is hand-drawn too. If you haven't watched it, I'd advise going through the entire 15 minutes of the video above. The action is fluid and unbelievable well choreographed. I can see so much of what an OP battle can be, in there.

To be fair, this isn't exactly inexpensive either. LoK's showrunners only got 13 episodes a season, but Nickelodeon never knew quite what to do with somethat that stood so far above their typical programming. In the hands of a good network that is committed to trying out animation as a route for adult drama, WoT can be brilliant. It'll be a risky gamble, but it'll also make WoT stand out. There's almost zero chance of it happening, but I would be extremely happy if it did.
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Old 05-01-2016, 01:49 PM
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I think this is a better representation of what animation is capable of, today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCrHwtCLfZc

And frankly, the look, feel, and atmosphere of the animation of Legend of Korra has always struck me as perfect for WoT. Almost all of it is hand-drawn too. If you haven't watched it, I'd advise going through the entire 15 minutes of the video above. The action is fluid and unbelievable well choreographed. I can see so much of what an OP battle can be, in there.

To be fair, this isn't exactly inexpensive either. LoK's showrunners only got 13 episodes a season, but Nickelodeon never knew quite what to do with somethat that stood so far above their typical programming. In the hands of a good network that is committed to trying out animation as a route for adult drama, WoT can be brilliant. It'll be a risky gamble, but it'll also make WoT stand out. There's almost zero chance of it happening, but I would be extremely happy if it did.
I'm not familiar with this series, but yeah, similar feel, albeit the animation quality leaves something to be desired. And you can do an animated series in America that appeals to more than just kids or anime fans. Take for instance Archer, which is already in its 7th season. I really think that if they want to do the story justice, animation is the best option.
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Old 05-01-2016, 01:56 PM
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I think WoT would be awesome as an animated series. It would be entirely possible to cut nothing. But I don't think that's what's going on here, and I'm okay with that, too.

Don't forget the battle at Tarwin's Gap in TEOTW.
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post
Can't remember anything like that. There was some question about what would happen with the advance payment that RJ had gotten on the last books now that it wasn't certain whether they would happen.
I remember that discussion basically being "She can't afford to pay it back since it was basically spent on medical costs thus the books HAD to be written".
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"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

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