art by =saintchase

Theoryland Resources

WoT Interview Search

Search the most comprehensive database of interviews and book signings from Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson and the rest of Team Jordan.

Wheel of Time News

An Hour With Harriet

2012-04-30: I had the great pleasure of speaking with Harriet McDougal Rigney about her life. She's an amazing talent and person and it will take you less than an hour to agree.

The Bell Tolls

2012-04-24: Some thoughts I had during JordanCon4 and the upcoming conclusion of "The Wheel of Time."

Theoryland Community

Members: 7611

Logged In (0):

Newest Members:johnroserking, petermorris, johnadanbvv, AndrewHB, jofwu, Salemcat1, Dhakatimesnews, amazingz, Sasooner, Hasib123,

Theoryland Tweets

Forums

Home | Chat | Old Forums(Yuku)


Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > THEORYLAND STEDDINGS > Non WoT Discussion
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-24-2016, 06:56 PM
Kimon's Avatar
Kimon Kimon is offline
Ancient
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 3,302
Kimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Is Assange just a Putinist Shill?

Wikileaks is up to its typical saboteur antics yet again. This time leading to the downfall of Debbie Wasserman Schultz, much to the delight of Bernie supporters. This leak however doesn't really reveal anything new. We all already knew that Debbie Wasserman Schultz (and the DNC) preferred Hillary over Bernie. That preference s hardly surprising. Bernie Sanders is, after all, not really a Democrat. That preference didn't however determine or tilt the outcome. The RNC didn't want Trump, but more people voted for him. Had Bernie had more support amongst Dem voters the same would have been true for him. This leak thus only really seems to serve one purpose, to intentionally make it more difficult to bring those Bernie voters into the fold, to convince them to vote for Hillary instead of Trump (or Jill Stein). So what really is Assange trying to do here? Was this leak done for the sake of transparency, or to serve Russian interests?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ers-dnc-emails

Quote:
Clinton’s campaign manager, Robby Mook, said on Sunday that “experts are telling us that Russian state actors broke into the DNC, stole these emails, [and are] releasing these emails for the purpose of helping Donald Trump”.

“I don’t think it’s coincidental that these emails are being released on the eve of our convention here,” he told CNN’s State of the Union, alluding to the party’s four-day exercise in unification which is set to take place this week in Philadelphia.

“This isn’t my assertion,” Mook said. “This is what experts are telling us.”

In a statement, the Clinton campaign repeated the accusation: “This is further evidence the Russian government is trying to influence the outcome of the election.”
And this is far from Assange's only link to the Russians...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/08/op...wikileaks.html

Quote:
There’s no doubt that WikiLeaks, which Mr. Assange founded in 2006, has been a boon for global civil liberties. The problem is that the project is inseparable from the man. Mr. Assange has made little secret about his skepticism toward Western democracy and his willingness to work with autocratic governments like Vladimir V. Putin’s Russia. His personal politics undermines WikiLeaks’ neutrality — and the noble cause for which WikiLeaks used to stand. What we need is a WikiLeaks without the founder of WikiLeaks.
Quote:
Yet, even back then, observers and media partners felt that Mr. Assange had more in mind than transparency, that there was an ideology behind his idea. Over time, that ideology has become increasingly apparent, through his regular public statements and his stint as a host for a Russian state-controlled TV network.

One element of Assange-think has been clear from early on: There is no such thing as a legitimate secret. The public is entitled to share any knowledge governments hold. Only complete transparency can stop and prevent conspiracy. Therefore, editing information by the government — redacting sensitive material, for example — equals manipulating it.
Quote:
If you believe it is illegitimate for a government to keep secrets, it’s a quick jump to assume that a government that holds secrets is illegitimate itself — and that a system that maintains this illegitimacy, namely democracy, isn’t half as good as most people think. In other words: Like any other system, democracy stinks.

Julian Assange uses WikiLeaks to push the wrongheaded conclusion that whatever is published on the platform has a rotten core. Yet often Mr. Assange is simply leaking for the sake of leaking, producing intelligence porn.

What scandal, for instance, lay in the contents of the former C.I.A. chief John O. Brennan’s personal email account that justified WikiLeaks’s publishing them in full? The underlying scandal, it would seem to Mr. Assange, is that these are evil people who must be exposed. Don’t trust anyone, everybody who keeps secrets is bad, regardless of the reasons they keep them or what values they stand for.

And it’s particularly bad, in Mr. Assange’s view, if those people represent Western democracy: In his simplistic reading, the West is hypocritical because it stands for civil liberties, and all secrets are antithetical to liberty. No wonder he got a show on Russian television — his viewpoint puts him nicely in line with Mr. Putin’s ideological agenda.
Should Trump be sending the thank you note to Assange, or to his handlers in Moscow?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-24-2016, 07:16 PM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,127
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

Quote:
Bernie Sanders is, after all, not really a Democrat.
Neither are a good number of voters upon whom Democrats depend to win elections.

The downfall of DWS has been inevitable for a long time now. I'm glad we got a final push, not that I think much will change.
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-24-2016, 07:33 PM
Kimon's Avatar
Kimon Kimon is offline
Ancient
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 3,302
Kimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Neither are a good number of voters upon whom Democrats depend to win elections.

The downfall of DWS has been inevitable for a long time now. I'm glad we got a final push, not that I think much will change.
I still don't see the point of the animosity towards her. She obviously needed to fall on her sword, but it still strikes me as unreasonable pique on the part of both Bernie and Jeff Weaver. But if they required a sacrificial lamb, then fine, so be it. Unfortunately, I think that it's still not enough. maybe never will be enough. I think that Hillary made a mistake choosing Kaine, but not because of anything wrong with Kaine himself, simply because I think that he's becoming yet another excuse for Bernie supporters in convincing themselves to not vote for Hillary. Maybe even Elizabeth Warren couldn't have changed that. Maybe those same voters who are finding Kaine, a mainstream Dem, unacceptable, would have simply found Warren a traitor if she joined Hillary's ticket.

I think all this leads to one result - Trump as president. And I think that this is the result that both Putin and Assange want. Maybe Assange is just being used, but it is hard to explain away why wikileaks has never gone after Russia, but always seems intent on embarrassing America. It is likewise hard to explain why Assange worked for RT, or why he talked Snowden into fleeing to Russia instead of Ecuador.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-24-2016, 08:05 PM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,127
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

The only reason Bernie got so much support in the first place is because Hillary is such a terrible candidate. If anything leads to President Trump, it's that.
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-24-2016, 08:21 PM
Kimon's Avatar
Kimon Kimon is offline
Ancient
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 3,302
Kimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
The only reason Bernie got so much support in the first place is because Hillary is such a terrible candidate. If anything leads to President Trump, it's that.
Hillary is not as natural a politician as her husband, or as Obama, but her policies are the same as theirs. I don't get why so many have such a problem with her. She was an effective first lady, an effective senator, an effective Sec. of State. Blaming her for Benghazi was irrational. Blaming her for voting for the Iraq Authorization was likewise irrational. She had just been elected senator from New York. She had to vote in favor. Blame Bush for cooking the books. Don't blame the dems that believed the CIA and Colin Powell. The private email server was a mistake, but a pretty insignificant one. Certainly nothing criminal. And I think the hostile opposition to free trade this late is anachronistic and irresponsible. I think she'd be a good president. Unfortunately that anti-trade sentiment is going to get Trump elected. I wished we would have learned from Brexit, but it certainly doesn't look like that was remotely the case.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-25-2016, 02:49 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is online now
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,816
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
Hillary is not as natural a politician as her husband, or as Obama, but her policies are the same as theirs.
Now that's some "damning her with faint praise"!

Maybe some people are just plain tired of having only varieties of right wing semi-libertarian policies to pick from.
__________________
I do not anticipate the invention of a working time machine in the foreseeable future.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-25-2016, 06:33 AM
Davian93's Avatar
Davian93 Davian93 is online now
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 20,068
Davian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Hillary is an awful, awful candidate...if the GOP had picked even an average opponent, she'd likely lose by 10 points. Nobody likes her...likability is a major issue for any politician and even half of her own party pretty much despises her.

DWS is likely the worst party chair in recent memory...and Hillary (once again showing her tonedeafness) actually made her her "honorary campaign chair" of her Presidential campaign as a parting gift. Seriously Hillary, all you did was piss off all the people that already dont like her and essentially prove that the party chair (who is supposed to be neutral in a party primary) has been and will always be in your pocket. Stupid as hell to do it immediately like that but once again, Hillary has zero grasp of how things look (see her email issue as another great example of this)
__________________
Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-25-2016, 09:29 AM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,127
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

Hillary knows how it looks. She just doesn't care. That's part of what makes her a terrible candidate.
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-25-2016, 10:07 AM
Davian93's Avatar
Davian93 Davian93 is online now
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 20,068
Davian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Hillary knows how it looks. She just doesn't care. That's part of what makes her a terrible candidate.
Yup. And that's why I really despise voting for her. Thank you for having Hitler run against her and me moving to an actual swing state in time for the election where my vote actually matters.
__________________
Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-25-2016, 10:31 AM
Davian93's Avatar
Davian93 Davian93 is online now
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 20,068
Davian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Hillary knows how it looks. She just doesn't care. That's part of what makes her a terrible candidate.
My friend's daughter is a delegate in Philly right now. She's getting a lot of crap for being a Bernie loyalist from the Hillaryites.

And this decision is massively fracturing the party at the worst possible time. Hello President Trump.
__________________
Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-25-2016, 10:44 AM
Kimon's Avatar
Kimon Kimon is offline
Ancient
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 3,302
Kimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
My friend's daughter is a delegate in Philly right now. She's getting a lot of crap for being a Bernie loyalist from the Hillaryites.

And this decision is massively fracturing the party at the worst possible time. Hello President Trump.
You guys know that Debbie Wasserman Schultz was her campaign manager back in '08, right? Still don't see what the big deal is here. Are you guys really bothered by this more than Tim Kaine?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-25-2016, 10:49 AM
Davian93's Avatar
Davian93 Davian93 is online now
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 20,068
Davian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
You guys know that Debbie Wasserman Schultz was her campaign manager back in '08, right? Still don't see what the big deal is here. Are you guys really bothered by this more than Tim Kaine?
Of course I know that. The point is that the party chair is supposed to be neutral, not in the pocket of one of the candidates. Its garbage and the emails show how much garbage it was. Did she need DWS in her pocket to win? No, not at all. But Hillary did it anyway. Same with the private email server. No reason to do it but she did it anyway. It just feeds into the image of her as a corrupt, secretive paranoid freak. There was zero reason for it.


On Kaine...don't even get me started on that. Hillary and Kaine would have been a great GOP ticket 20-30 years ago. Now they're the "best the Dems have to offer"?!? What a freaking joke. Its yet another complete betrayal of the progressive movement and one that looks more and more like it's gonna bite her in the ass come November when she just assumes that the Left will vote for her over Trump rather than stay home.

Never underestimate the stupidity of the voting public. It sure as hell seems like Hillary is doing that with her actions.

Not only that, the timing for this move was incredibly stupid. It will be the lead story all day today and destroy any semblance of a "unified front" going into the Convention. S-M-R-T, Hillary.


On a side note, DWS was about as good a campaign manager for Hillary as she's been a DNC chair for the Dems the last several years. She's completely incompetent yet keeps getting work somehow. Maybe Hillary's decision making isn't the best there, eh?
__________________
Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-25-2016, 11:17 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is online now
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,816
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
On Kaine...don't even get me started on that. Hillary and Kaine would have been a great GOP ticket 20-30 years ago. Now they're the "best the Dems have to offer"?!? What a freaking joke. Its yet another complete betrayal of the progressive movement and one that looks more and more like it's gonna bite her in the ass come November when she just assumes that the Left will vote for her over Trump rather than stay home.

Never underestimate the stupidity of the voting public. It sure as hell seems like Hillary is doing that with her actions.
By now, I'm ceasing to be surprised at the Democrat ability to snatch a resounding defeat from the jaws of inevitable victory.
__________________
I do not anticipate the invention of a working time machine in the foreseeable future.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-25-2016, 11:18 AM
Davian93's Avatar
Davian93 Davian93 is online now
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 20,068
Davian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
By now, I'm ceasing to be surprised at the Democrat ability to snatch a resounding defeat from the jaws of inevitable victory.
Well after Gore somehow screwed up...nothing surprises me.

Speaking of Gore, the idiot refuses to endorse Clinton because he feels she isn't strong enough on climate change. You know, because Trump will be a better option there.

What an ass.
__________________
Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-25-2016, 11:45 AM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,127
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Well after Gore somehow screwed up...nothing surprises me.

Speaking of Gore, the idiot refuses to endorse Clinton because he feels she isn't strong enough on climate change. You know, because Trump will be a better option there.

What an ass.
In principle I sympathize because at some point we have to stop accepting 'not as bad as the GOP' as good enough, especially when it comes to climate change where our window is rapidly closing.

In practice, Gore's only relevance these days is as a climate activist. He can't betray his base or he won't be relevant to anything at all.
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-25-2016, 11:47 AM
Davian93's Avatar
Davian93 Davian93 is online now
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 20,068
Davian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
In principle I sympathize because at some point we have to stop accepting 'not as bad as the GOP' as good enough, especially when it comes to climate change where our window is rapidly closing.

In practice, Gore's only relevance these days is as a climate activist. He can't betray his base or he won't be relevant to anything at all.
Sadly, I think that window is already closed and we're completely screwed long-term thanks to the last 30 years of idiocy.

But hey, at least those quarterly profits for Big Oil were really good, eh?
__________________
Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-25-2016, 11:51 AM
Kimon's Avatar
Kimon Kimon is offline
Ancient
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 3,302
Kimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
On Kaine...don't even get me started on that. Hillary and Kaine would have been a great GOP ticket 20-30 years ago. Now they're the "best the Dems have to offer"?!? What a freaking joke. Its yet another complete betrayal of the progressive movement and one that looks more and more like it's gonna bite her in the ass come November when she just assumes that the Left will vote for her over Trump rather than stay home.
Kaine was a mistake, but Bill Clinton was president 20 years ago. Hillary and Tim Kaine are not more conservative than her husband. Nor any more conservative than Obama. I get why Republicans don't like her, but this hostility amongst so many dems (the Bernie crowd) is really odd. Being a free trader doesn't make you a conservative. The progressive movement encapsulates a lot of issues. Why does Bernie get a pass on gun control, but Hillary doesn't on free trade?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-25-2016, 11:54 AM
Davian93's Avatar
Davian93 Davian93 is online now
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 20,068
Davian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
Kaine was a mistake, but Bill Clinton was president 20 years ago. Hillary and Tim Kaine are not more conservative than her husband. Nor any more conservative than Obama. I get why Republicans don't like her, but this hostility amongst so many dems (the Bernie crowd) is really odd. Being a free trader doesn't make you a conservative. The progressive movement encapsulates a lot of issues. Why does Bernie get a pass on gun control, but Hillary doesn't on free trade?
And you'll recall that Bill won by running as a Center Right "Third Way" candidate instead of as a Democrat.

My hatred of her is more about the HOW of what she does rather than what's she's doing. She just reeks of shadiness and she always has. She's her husband without the charisma. Nobody likes her and that'll destroy any chance she ever had of building any sort of consensus.

Is she worse than Trump? God no. And that's why I'll vote for her but she's pretty much the worst possible choice the Dems could have made in an election year where they should win by 15%.
__________________
Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-25-2016, 11:59 AM
Kimon's Avatar
Kimon Kimon is offline
Ancient
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 3,302
Kimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
And you'll recall that Bill won by running as a Center Right "Third Way" candidate instead of as a Democrat.
And he was the best president during my lifetime. I like Obama too, but then Obama negotiated the TPP and TTIP. This is why the Bernie crowd reminds me of the Tea Party. They demand complete purity or else treat you as an enemy of the movement. Obviously different people will have different issues that they think are of primary importance, but unless these Bernie voters really disliked Obama, why would they have a problem with Hillary? Sure they preferred Bernie, but don't burn the house down just because you now need to compromise on one issue.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-25-2016, 12:02 PM
Davian93's Avatar
Davian93 Davian93 is online now
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 20,068
Davian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
And he was the best president during my lifetime. I like Obama too, but then Obama negotiated the TPP and TTIP. This is why the Bernie crowd reminds me of the Tea Party. They demand complete purity or else treat you as an enemy of the movement. Obviously different people will have different issues that they think are of primary importance, but unless these Bernie voters really disliked Obama, why would they have a problem with Hillary? Sure they preferred Bernie, but don't burn the house down just because you now need to compromise on one issue.
I agree...and its why I hate zealots on either side.

I would also agree that Clinton was easily the best candidate of my lifetime. Granted I was born in 81 so the list is pretty shitty but I'd probably rank them as follows:

1. Bill Clinton
2. Barack Obama
3. Bush Sr
4. Ronnie Reagan
5. Bush Jr

Clinton was probably the best president since Truman all things considered. But she's not her husband and if her name wasn't Clinton, she never would have made it out of a law firm in Little Rock let alone become a Senator, SecState and then presidential candidate of the Dems.

FWIW, I think Bernie is probably the 2nd worst possible choice the Dems could have made this time around...for completely different reasons than I think for Hillary though.
__________________
Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.