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  #221  
Old 12-06-2016, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
Part of the issue is that Trump is coming from business rather than from government, part of the issue is that republicans tend to mistrust both government and experience in governing. They wanted an amateur that would burn the house down. Of course, the Bernie crowd seemingly wanted the exact same thing...
Bernie's Experience:

Mayor of Burlington, VT: 1981-1990
US Representative: 1990-2006
US Senator: 2006-Present

Yes, he's a complete political amateur with zero legislative experience.

Get real.
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  #222  
Old 12-06-2016, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by StrangePackage View Post
Ooops. Looks like I was mistaken- he never lived in public housing. But he had friends who did.

So yeah. Now he's got nothing.
He's black and black people are the only people that live in cities and public housing.

That's seriously his only qualification that matters to Trump...that and personal loyalty/dependence on Trump.
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  #223  
Old 12-06-2016, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Bernie's Experience:

Mayor of Burlington, VT: 1981-1990
US Representative: 1990-2006
US Senator: 2006-Present

Yes, he's a complete political amateur with zero legislative experience.

Get real.
I was referring to the burn the house down mentality. I think that Bernie would have given us very non-traditional appointments as well.

As for your other point, Bernie obviously deserves quite a bit of credit for accomplishing something that Jill Stein, nor even Nader, ever will accomplish - actually being elected into positions in an attempt to do more than merely offer up empty rhetoric. That said, he was still viewed as an outsider and a rogue for a reason. Had he been elected, I have little doubt that his cabinet would have been filled more with amateurs than with the usual suspects from the dem ranks. Some people loved him for that, I have little use for revolutionaries.
  #224  
Old 12-06-2016, 08:55 PM
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They likely would have been unusual but they likely at least would have been qualified. The list of candidates Trump has lined up are about as far from qualified as you can possibly get. Its like a mirror opposite of Lincoln's Team of Rivals...or hell, even Obama's first cabinet which was immensely qualified on paper.
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  #225  
Old 12-06-2016, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
They likely would have been unusual but they likely at least would have been qualified. The list of candidates Trump has lined up are about as far from qualified as you can possibly get. Its like a mirror opposite of Lincoln's Team of Rivals...or hell, even Obama's first cabinet which was immensely qualified on paper.
I agree for the most part, but I think he would have likely appointed someone far too iconoclastic to Treasury, that and I was obviously anxious about what he might try to an extent with the ACA, and especially with Education.

I guess I would posit the true divide like this - I imagine that neither of us really liked Hillary, but voters like Terez clearly really disliked her for reasons that I still find difficult to fathom. Though clearly I nearly dislike Bernie as much as she does Hillary. I wish I could have had the choice of someone like Biden, and to be blunt, I don't really get the impression that Terez thought much better of Joe than she did Hillary. She certainly doesn't seem to like Obama much either, and she gave the impression (I may be in error here, but this certainly seemed the case) that had Hillary picked Warren (as she clearly should have), that she would have considered it a betrayal had Warren accepted. Which I also find somewhat strange, but then I like Warren, but, on the other hand, I clearly do not trust Bernie, and I certainly don't trust his judgment. Bernie and Trump strike me as far too similar for my liking. I look at both of them and see dangerous demagogues.
  #226  
Old 12-06-2016, 09:47 PM
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So this is mostly about the Younger Flynn, but still...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38231532

Quote:
One of Donald Trump's aides has lost his job after fanning a conspiracy theory that climaxed at the weekend in gunfire at a pizzeria.
Michael Flynn, 33, left the US president-elect's transition team on Tuesday following his tweets about the so-called Pizzagate fake news story.
His father, Michael Flynn Snr, Mr Trump's pick to be US national security adviser, has also shared fake news.
The Pizzagate hoax led to a gunman firing shots in a restaurant on Sunday.
Quote:
No one was injured in the incident at Comet Ping Pong in Washington DC.
The suspect told police he had turned up to "self-investigate" online rumour-mongering that the pizzeria was the nexus of a paedophile ring involving Hillary Clinton and one of her aides, John Podesta.
Quote:
Vice President-elect Mike Pence acknowledged that Mr Flynn Jnr had been helping his father with scheduling and administrative items during the transition but said "that's no longer the case".
Asked repeatedly whether a security clearance was requested, Mr Pence refused to answer directly.
Mr Flynn Snr, 57, has also tweeted out unsubstantiated conspiracy theories accusing Mrs Clinton and her aides of child-sex trafficking.
Quote:
The Pizzagate theory originated on alternative message board 4chan, based on emails hacked from the Democratic Party and leaked by Wikileaks.
The restaurant's owner, James Alefantis, a Democratic Party donor, appears in the emails in relation to organising a Democratic fundraiser.
Users of 4chan and another message board, Reddit, had said words in the emails such as cheese, hot dog, and pizza were code for young children and sex acts.
  #227  
Old 12-07-2016, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
I agree for the most part, but I think he would have likely appointed someone far too iconoclastic to Treasury, that and I was obviously anxious about what he might try to an extent with the ACA, and especially with Education.

I guess I would posit the true divide like this - I imagine that neither of us really liked Hillary, but voters like Terez clearly really disliked her for reasons that I still find difficult to fathom. Though clearly I nearly dislike Bernie as much as she does Hillary. I wish I could have had the choice of someone like Biden, and to be blunt, I don't really get the impression that Terez thought much better of Joe than she did Hillary. She certainly doesn't seem to like Obama much either, and she gave the impression (I may be in error here, but this certainly seemed the case) that had Hillary picked Warren (as she clearly should have), that she would have considered it a betrayal had Warren accepted. Which I also find somewhat strange, but then I like Warren, but, on the other hand, I clearly do not trust Bernie, and I certainly don't trust his judgment. Bernie and Trump strike me as far too similar for my liking. I look at both of them and see dangerous demagogues.
Why are you suddenly trying to pick a fight with Terez?
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  #228  
Old 12-07-2016, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Nazbaque View Post
Why are you suddenly trying to pick a fight with Terez?
This was merely an observation of the contrast within the milieu of the left. Terez seems an apt example in reference to the more intransigent Bernie supporters, as she was quite open about her unwillingness, one which was mirrored by many other Bernie supporters (but not by Davian), to rejoin the flock. Hence her refusal to vote for Hillary after Bernie lost. It seemed part of a larger dissatisfaction with the democrats than merely a problem with Hillary.
  #229  
Old 12-07-2016, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
This was merely an observation of the contrast within the milieu of the left. Terez seems an apt example in reference to the more intransigent Bernie supporters, as she was quite open about her unwillingness, one which was mirrored by many other Bernie supporters (but not by Davian), to rejoin the flock. Hence her refusal to vote for Hillary after Bernie lost. It seemed part of a larger dissatisfaction with the democrats than merely a problem with Hillary.
But why bring her up as an example? That's basically the same as Unreasoner bringing up Southpaw before he has even made a post on a subject. Has she done something to piss you off?
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  #230  
Old 12-07-2016, 08:52 AM
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The Democrats aren't left, they are centre-right. That may be part of the reason why many people on the left aren't all that eager to vote for them.
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  #231  
Old 12-07-2016, 09:56 AM
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But why bring her up as an example? That's basically the same as Unreasoner bringing up Southpaw before he has even made a post on a subject. Has she done something to piss you off?
She has posted on this subject. It's why she is the most obvious comparative example. I was drawing a contrast between the three largest blocks of voters from the left (and yes, contrary to Gonzo's repeated complaints, this is the left) - the Hillary supporters (me), the Bernie supporters who voted for Hillary in the general (Davian), the Bernie supporters who refused to vote for Hillary (Terez).

This wasn't an ad hominem (at least not against Terez), this, as typical, is merely you being obtuse.
  #232  
Old 12-07-2016, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
She has posted on this subject. It's why she is the most obvious comparative example. I was drawing a contrast between the three largest blocks of voters from the left (and yes, contrary to Gonzo's repeated complaints, this is the left) - the Hillary supporters (me), the Bernie supporters who voted for Hillary in the general (Davian), the Bernie supporters who refused to vote for Hillary (Terez).

This wasn't an ad hominem (at least not against Terez), this, as typical, is merely you being obtuse.

Her last post on this thread is post #161 on 11/18. 70 posts and nearly three weeks ago. You are picking a fight. And seeing as you go for insults that quickly you clearly are pissed off for some reason, though probably not because of terez or even because of me or at least not originally because of me. So three choices: 1) apologize, 2) make this a full blown fight and get it out of your system, or 3) continue your passive aggressive bitching until you piss everyone else off.

And even in America there are people on the actual left and I doubt they like the dems being the next best thing center-right as they are by most countries' standards.
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  #233  
Old 12-07-2016, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Nazbaque View Post
Her last post on this thread is post #161 on 11/18. 70 posts and nearly three weeks ago. You are picking a fight. And seeing as you go for insults that quickly you clearly are pissed off for some reason, though probably not because of terez or even because of me or at least not originally because of me. So three choices: 1) apologize, 2) make this a full blown fight and get it out of your system, or 3) continue your passive aggressive bitching until you piss everyone else off.
I don't usually do this (weigh in on personal fights that aren't mine)- but here I go.

Naz- if Terez is offended in any way, she can speak for herself. To me, the only person that looks like they are picking a fight is you.
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  #234  
Old 12-07-2016, 01:01 PM
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I don't usually do this (weigh in on personal fights that aren't mine)- but here I go.

Naz- if Terez is offended in any way, she can speak for herself. To me, the only person that looks like they are picking a fight is you.
Just to be clear, I didn't mean any offence to Terez, so if she is by chance offended, I'll apologize for any unintentional offence to her. Nonetheless, my comment about her here seemed a completely innocent point of comparison. Naz just seemed up to his usual, and obnoxious, trolling. My insulting of him, thus was intentional.
  #235  
Old 12-07-2016, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
The Democrats aren't left, they are centre-right. That may be part of the reason why many people on the left aren't all that eager to vote for them.
The Dems haven't had a real Progressive Wing of the party since before Reagan was in office. That's a big part of why they are so good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (2000, 2004, 2016 elections are all great examples of this mentality by them).

I almost guarantee that they learn the absolute wrong lesson from 2016 and run away from the progressive base once again to try and be Republican Lite in their quest for the center of the country to like them...which will never ever happen because even the most conservative Democrat is painted as an ultra libtard crazy commie by the Right.

They need to grow a pair and embrace their liberal roots but they never get that.
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  #236  
Old 12-07-2016, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
The Dems haven't had a real Progressive Wing of the party since before Reagan was in office. That's a big part of why they are so good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (2000, 2004, 2016 elections are all great examples of this mentality by them).

I almost guarantee that they learn the absolute wrong lesson from 2016 and run away from the progressive base once again to try and be Republican Lite in their quest for the center of the country to like them...which will never ever happen because even the most conservative Democrat is painted as an ultra libtard crazy commie by the Right.

They need to grow a pair and embrace their liberal roots but they never get that.
A lot of this is due to the decline of unions, but has spilled into a question of where the party should move in its evolution. In many aspects the party is far more liberal today than it was in the 70s (gay rights, womens' rights, environment). In others it has remained in the same position (choice, gun control, science over religion). Where it has moved to the right is on trade and labor issues - largely because unions have died. For those that this issue seems paramount, the dems seem to have gotten too conservative, but the party still maintains stances far more progressive than the republicans, far more progressive in many cases than even its older 1970s incarnation. A lot of those old union type voters (blue color white - and older) used to be dems, who started going red during the Reagan years (often because they didn't like the progressive social policies of the dems, only the progressive labor policies). A lot of those voters obviously went for Trump this cycle.

And this is a large part of the debate within the party that has been going on since Reagan. Do we try to bring those blue collar white voters back in the mix by moving to the center on social issues but left on labor issues, or just continue moving to the left on social issues, abandoning some of the old labor issues to instead try to bring in more of the white collar Rockefeller crowd who likes the progressive social stances, but not the progressive labor policies. I don't think that there is an easy answer here, but then I do have some Tory tendencies...
  #237  
Old 12-07-2016, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
Just to be clear, I didn't mean any offence to Terez, so if she is by chance offended, I'll apologize for any unintentional offence to her. Nonetheless, my comment about her here seemed a completely innocent point of comparison. Naz just seemed up to his usual, and obnoxious, trolling. My insulting of him, thus was intentional.
Oh well then, since to me you seemed to be picking a fight without being provoked, my obnoxious trolling as you put it was just as justified as your insults.
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  #238  
Old 12-07-2016, 03:01 PM
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Retired Marine General John Kelly tabbed as the next head of DHS.

Is it just me or is Trump selecting alot of Generals for his cabinet? If this were a 3rd world country, I'd almost say it feels like a military coup occurred rather than a democratic election.

Add in Flynn, Mattis and possibly Petreaus...and its just weird.
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  #239  
Old 12-07-2016, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Retired Marine General John Kelly tabbed as the next head of DHS.

Is it just me or is Trump selecting alot of Generals for his cabinet? If this were a 3rd world country, I'd almost say it feels like a military coup occurred rather than a democratic election.

Add in Flynn, Mattis and possibly Petreaus...and its just weird.
Let's not forget the many Washington insiders he's brought on as well.

I guess he'll "drain the swamp" by overfilling it?
  #240  
Old 12-07-2016, 04:13 PM
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Maybe it'll dry up due to global warming...given that he's just selected one of the most vocal opponents to any sort of climate control to be the head of the Environmental Protection Agency...Oklahoma AG Scott Pruitt.

For the non-Americans here, Oklahoma is literally owned 100% by the oil & gas industry and Pruitt has fought the federal gov't tooth and nail on every and any measure that could possibly slow down climate change. Its the equivalent of picking the fox to guard your hen house.
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Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
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