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  #281  
Old 12-12-2016, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I mean, is it ethically or morally wrong to be stupid? They can't help it can they? I mean, I try to have sympathy for folks like that.
This is why ultimately democracy tends not to work. Inevitably, the idiots outbreed the intellectural elite and you get idiocracy. Republicanism is far better than pure democracy...because people are stupid, absolutely incredibly stupid.
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  #282  
Old 12-12-2016, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I mean, is it ethically or morally wrong to be stupid? They can't help it can they? I mean, I try to have sympathy for folks like that.
Being stupid is not morally wrong. However, being deliberately ignorant and then making decisions binding upon others based on your ignorance is morally wrong.

The USA used to have a Know Nothing Party. That was not supposed to be actual ignorance, but pretended ignorance; what we now call plausible deniability. However, nowadays, there are huge numbers of people who consider ignorance to be a virtue. And that is morally wrong of them. They are actually evil.

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You say that as if restricting democracy has ever consistently produced wise leadership.
Well, maybe it will this time. You never know until you've tried, do you?

Or, as GWB said (quoting Chamberlain after his Munich adventure): "If you do not succeed at once, try, try again." Thinking, using already available knowledge, is "politically correct", so that's a no-no for many. See the previous part of this post.
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  #283  
Old 12-12-2016, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
You say that as if restricting democracy has ever consistently produced wise leadership.
Has it ever been restricted in the manner I describe?

I'm analyzing the problem and showing why a certain attempt at solving it is fundamentally flawed. I don't have a working solution to the problem, but I see that some things can't be included to one. And one of them is giving the right to vote to people who don't deserve it.
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  #284  
Old 12-12-2016, 01:33 PM
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There are stupid people on both sides of the aisle, but really it's a little more tidal than that. Find the issue(s) that will attract enough people and that will swing the vote from one side to the other, even if all the other elements of someone's campaign run counter to their beliefs.
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  #285  
Old 12-12-2016, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ShadowbaneX View Post
There are stupid people on both sides of the aisle, but really it's a little more tidal than that. Find the issue(s) that will attract enough people and that will swing the vote from one side to the other, even if all the other elements of someone's campaign run counter to their beliefs.
The problem is that a large majority of one side of the aisle has reached the point of not believing in reality...so you have dualing realities now...one based in fact and observation and then the other based in nutbag conspiracy theories and hatred.

You can't have a functioning democracy when that is the case.
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  #286  
Old 12-12-2016, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
The problem is that a large majority of one side of the aisle has reached the point of not believing in reality...so you have dualing realities now...one based in fact and observation and then the other based in nutbag conspiracy theories and hatred.

You can't have a functioning democracy when that is the case.
Fact and observation? Not really. But their idea of reality aligns better with the rest of the world's idea of reality so it's the better option. The actual true reality contains things that the average human isn't ready to face, but so long as the dream they live is shared by a majority and it doesn't really harm anyone the world can operate. This is known as the collective reality. God might not exist, but belief in him is so wide spread that it has an effect on its own. Money is another shared belief. Countries and laws too. The list goes on and there are a great many less dramatic items on it.
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  #287  
Old 12-12-2016, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Nazbaque View Post
Fact and observation? Not really. But their idea of reality aligns better with the rest of the world's idea of reality so it's the better option. The actual true reality contains things that the average human isn't ready to face, but so long as the dream they live is shared by a majority and it doesn't really harm anyone the world can operate. This is known as the collective reality. God might not exist, but belief in him is so wide spread that it has an effect on its own. Money is another shared belief. Countries and laws too. The list goes on and there are a great many less dramatic items on it.
I was sticking to more basic concepts like science and mad made climate change.

etc etc.

You're pushing into philosophy and other far more lofty ideals than that.
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"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

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  #288  
Old 12-12-2016, 06:38 PM
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And top it all off with an healthy helping of anti-intellectualism so that any authority that can try to warn them that things are going South in a right proper hurry is ignored. There are some elements of the left that go to far. Safe spaces is one. It's mocked pretty heavily in many places, the people just need to grow a thicker skin, learn to take a joke, etc. As someone that was bullied a fair amount in school, I think the idea is a good one, but it's been taken to the point where it is a joke from many views. A quiet place where people can go where they're safe from being picked on? That's great. A place where people go and tailor their world view so they only get things that bolster and reinforce their opinion? Not so much. As Dav said, this is more on the philosophy side of things, but there are elements on both sides that make it hard to talk to each other.

Speaking of which, a news story that I heard on the radio on the way home today is that 10 Electors down there want a briefing from the CIA about Russia's involvement in the election. Is there any traction to this, and any hope of enough Electors "voting their conscious" to change the results? And to tie things together, of course Trump et al, are saying it's ridiculous.
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Last edited by ShadowbaneX; 12-12-2016 at 06:43 PM.
  #289  
Old 12-12-2016, 06:50 PM
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Jerusalem Post says Trump Admin wants to prioritize moving the US Embassy in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

I would love to see the risk/benefit calculus on this one.
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  #290  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:12 PM
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7468021.html

Don't worry, this type of brinksmanship won't be a problem with the steady hand of Trump at the helm.
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  #291  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ShadowbaneX View Post
And top it all off with an healthy helping of anti-intellectualism so that any authority that can try to warn them that things are going South in a right proper hurry is ignored. There are some elements of the left that go to far. Safe spaces is one. It's mocked pretty heavily in many places, the people just need to grow a thicker skin, learn to take a joke, etc. As someone that was bullied a fair amount in school, I think the idea is a good one, but it's been taken to the point where it is a joke from many views. A quiet place where people can go where they're safe from being picked on? That's great. A place where people go and tailor their world view so they only get things that bolster and reinforce their opinion? Not so much. As Dav said, this is more on the philosophy side of things, but there are elements on both sides that make it hard to talk to each other.

Speaking of which, a news story that I heard on the radio on the way home today is that 10 Electors down there want a briefing from the CIA about Russia's involvement in the election. Is there any traction to this, and any hope of enough Electors "voting their conscious" to change the results? And to tie things together, of course Trump et al, are saying it's ridiculous.
Its 10...out of 538. So there's really not much momentum unfortunately.

Quote:
Jerusalem Post says Trump Admin wants to prioritize moving the US Embassy in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

I would love to see the risk/benefit calculus on this one.
Benefits:

1. US Ambassador doesnt have to drive an hour each time he wants to meet hte Isreali gov't.
2. It'd make Bibi happy.

Downsides:

1. It'd poison our relations with every Muslim majority country in the world including erstwhile NATO ally Turkey.
2. It massively increases the chances of a major spree of terrorist attacks across the entire West but especially against the USA.
3. It'd possibly be a precursor cause to WWIII

But hey it'd show everyone how "tough" Trump is...
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  #292  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by StrangePackage View Post
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7468021.html

Don't worry, this type of brinksmanship won't be a problem with the steady hand of Trump at the helm.
I figure we'll be in a full-blown recession within 12 months due to pissing off China.

But hey, its not like he'd do something stupid right? I mean, he's obviously getting daily intelligence briefings that would tell him not to do certain things. You'd have to be a pretty arrogant and ignorant asshole to avoid that, right?
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"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

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  #293  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:22 PM
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I think Clinton won some votes on her own. So it's those + 10.
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  #294  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ShadowbaneX View Post
I think Clinton won some votes on her own. So it's those + 10.
That'd be 242 total...assuming none of the potentially faithless electors that have threatened to not vote for Hillary too don't jump ship. Trump won 306-232.

So we'd need at least 37 electors to jump from Trump to Hillary for it to matter. And most would likely jump from Trump to someone like McMullen or Johnson which would throw the election into the House which would either give us Trump anyway due to the massive GOP majority or give us President Pence or President Paul Ryan.
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  #295  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:40 PM
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Russia Applauds Trump's "Dream Team" Cabinet

Hmm...nothing to worry about at all..AT ALL.
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"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

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  #296  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I mean, is it ethically or morally wrong to be stupid? They can't help it can they? I mean, I try to have sympathy for folks like that.
People still honestly believe that Bernie Sanders should be president. I have sympathy for those who believe that Socialism (or Communism) is superior to capitalism. When you have an education system full of "elites" who live in a bubble, and a media that report with a spin, it's not surprising to see what all happens.

It's actually interesting to see the media get into a frenzy about the Russian hacking allegations when they essentially laughed off the claim years ago that the Obama administration was under Russian cyber attacks. A plus side to this whole "President Trump" scenario: the unveiling of the horribly biased, lying liberal media. Democrats, including people on this board, laughed at Romney when he threw Russia under the bus in 2012. Now look where we are.

Want to see why Trump got elected? No, not because Republicans are "white, racist men."

Example 1 of many:

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/12...g-one-student/

Not an example from America, but that garbage goes on here as well. It's a fight against liberal totalitarianism. A fight against the Left's attempt to turn us into a distorted mix of Sweden and Cuba. It's twisted, and horrifying. That's why Trump got elected.

Last edited by Southpaw2012; 12-12-2016 at 07:48 PM.
  #297  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
People still honestly believe that Bernie Sanders should be president. I have sympathy for those who believe that Socialism (or Communism) is superior to capitalism. When you have an education system full of "elites" who live in a bubble, and a media that report with a spin, it's not surprising to see what all happens.

It's actually interesting to see the media get into a frenzy about the Russian hacking allegations when they essentially laughed off the claim years ago that the Obama administration was under Russian cyber attacks. A plus side to this whole "President Trump" scenario: the unveiling of the horribly biased, lying liberal media. Democrats, including people on this board, laughed at Romney when he threw Russia under the bus in 2012. Now look where we are.
I love Bernie...he's genuinely a really good guy and he has a lot of good ideas but he wouldn't have been a very good president. He would have been better than Trump...but so would the duce I dropped this morning so that doesn't mean anything.

Um...newsflash dumbass. The US gov't is constantly under cyber attack by thousands of efforts every single day. The DHS estimate a couple years ago was that their server was probed or attacked approximately 35,000 times...A DAY.

35,000 A DAY EVERY DAY. That was what they said publically.

This election, Russia wasn't the threat, the idiot right wingers that bought into the propaganda were. Its not exactly hard to convince idiots to vote against their own self-interests. Republicans have been proving this for 50 years now. Romney meant Russia was a threat in the sense that they were during the Cold War which was laughable and stupid. Romney also started the Benghazi stupidity while ignoring that 60 embassy employees died during the Dubya years with nary a complaint from anyone but 4 die under Obama and its the biggest scandal in history. Remember his idiotic press conference where he smirked through the entire thing so happy that Americans died so he could try to pin it on Obama?
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"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
  #298  
Old 12-12-2016, 08:13 PM
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You live in a fascinating world Southpaw. I sure as hell don't want to live there...hell, I don't even want to visit.

Also, for the record, Sweden is a wonderful country.
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  #299  
Old 12-12-2016, 08:19 PM
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You live in a fascinating world Southpaw. I sure as hell don't want to live there...hell, I don't even want to visit.

Also, for the record, Sweden is a wonderful country.
No, no, the Swedes are all secretly miserable...he read it on some right wing wingnut website that swears its true despite all the evidence to the contrary.
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  #300  
Old 12-12-2016, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
People still honestly believe that Bernie Sanders should be president. I have sympathy for those who believe that Socialism (or Communism) is superior to capitalism. When you have an education system full of "elites" who live in a bubble, and a media that report with a spin, it's not surprising to see what all happens.

It's actually interesting to see the media get into a frenzy about the Russian hacking allegations when they essentially laughed off the claim years ago that the Obama administration was under Russian cyber attacks. A plus side to this whole "President Trump" scenario: the unveiling of the horribly biased, lying liberal media. Democrats, including people on this board, laughed at Romney when he threw Russia under the bus in 2012. Now look where we are.

Want to see why Trump got elected? No, not because Republicans are "white, racist men."

Example 1 of many:

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/12...g-one-student/

Not an example from America, but that garbage goes on here as well. It's a fight against liberal totalitarianism. A fight against the Left's attempt to turn us into a distorted mix of Sweden and Cuba. It's twisted, and horrifying. That's why Trump got elected.
Trump won because of a teacher getting fired in Canada?

I knew the fucking Canadians were to blame for this shit.

SBX, you sneaky kilted yaksman, what did America ever do to you!?
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