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  #641  
Old 01-11-2017, 08:20 AM
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So far it makes sense. But then there is the question: why would such a scheme have any blackmailing power over Trump? He can simply say "Yeah, it was fun." and all his voters will be green with envy but won't care otherwise.

The whole point of the honey trap is that it destroys the reputation of the target when it is revealed. Trump doesn't have a reputation which can be damaged, so the whole issue is moot.
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  #642  
Old 01-11-2017, 09:54 AM
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So far it makes sense. But then there is the question: why would such a scheme have any blackmailing power over Trump? He can simply say "Yeah, it was fun." and all his voters will be green with envy but won't care otherwise.

The whole point of the honey trap is that it destroys the reputation of the target when it is revealed. Trump doesn't have a reputation which can be damaged, so the whole issue is moot.
Yeah, that is a good point.

However, committing crimes and this is technically a crime would be an impeachable offense regardless of where it took place and regardless of the laws of that country. US federal law does not differentiate based on location of the incident.
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  #643  
Old 01-11-2017, 10:31 AM
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US federal law does not differentiate based on location of the incident.
True, but it does differentiate on whether the potential impeachee has a D or an R after his name, doesn't it?
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  #644  
Old 01-11-2017, 12:21 PM
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True, but it does differentiate on whether the potential impeachee has a D or an R after his name, doesn't it?
Well, yeah it does do that. The only time a President has ever been impeached or been looking at impeachment, the opposing party has held both the House and Senate:

1868: Andrew Johnson (D), Senate (R), House (R)
1974: Richard Nixon (R), Senate (D), House (D)
1998: Bill Clinton (D), Senate (R), House (R)

Though obviously, Nixon never actually was impeached, he was just told that the votes were there for both impeachment and a Senate conviction if he refused to resign.
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  #645  
Old 01-11-2017, 05:46 PM
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Look, if there was an actual golden shower in a bed used by Michelle and Barack Obama, and we get verifiable evidence for this, it'll be pretty tough for Trump to dodge the bullet on it. He may not be impeached or anything, but it'll solidify the Democrats in Congress and the Senate. And should they make gains in the Senate in 2018 (unlikely as that sounds now), this is the kind of stuff they'll happily use to undercut him.

So while it is true that he will not feel the proportional consequence, I don't think one can say that it won't have any effect.
  #646  
Old 01-11-2017, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by fionwe1987 View Post
Look, if there was an actual golden shower in a bed used by Michelle and Barack Obama, and we get verifiable evidence for this, it'll be pretty tough for Trump to dodge the bullet on it. He may not be impeached or anything, but it'll solidify the Democrats in Congress and the Senate. And should they make gains in the Senate in 2018 (unlikely as that sounds now), this is the kind of stuff they'll happily use to undercut him.

So while it is true that he will not feel the proportional consequence, I don't think one can say that it won't have any effect.
BBC News is saying they have multiple confirmations of the story that Russia has compromising information on Trump...not the Golden Shower thing specifically but the other more down to earth reports about damning info.

So...it'd be hilarious if this is true as it could be enough to destroy his presidency.

Especailly if he's trying to cover it up...its always the coverup that gets you.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38589427

An interesting read to say the least.
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Last edited by Davian93; 01-11-2017 at 10:22 PM.
  #647  
Old 01-12-2017, 12:29 PM
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Trump using Twitter to encourage sales of L.L. Bean because of an endorsement from their CEO.

That's right, ladies and gentlemen! Free advertising from the POTUS in exchange for your full-throated endorsement of whatever he says to endorse.

The Presidency is now a vehicle for personal leverage. If you ever made corruption an issue for you during the election and you aren't flipping out that Trump isn't releasing his taxes or divesting his holdings while boasting that he is untouchable on corruption charges then you are a hypocrite who absolutely deserves ridicule and scorn.
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  #648  
Old 01-12-2017, 01:08 PM
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Trump using Twitter to encourage sales of L.L. Bean because of an endorsement from their CEO.

That's right, ladies and gentlemen! Free advertising from the POTUS in exchange for your full-throated endorsement of whatever he says to endorse.

The Presidency is now a vehicle for personal leverage. If you ever made corruption an issue for you during the election and you aren't flipping out that Trump isn't releasing his taxes or divesting his holdings while boasting that he is untouchable on corruption charges then you are a hypocrite who absolutely deserves ridicule and scorn.
Stop being a libtard hater...he's making America great again!!!
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"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

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  #649  
Old 01-12-2017, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
BBC News is saying they have multiple confirmations of the story that Russia has compromising information on Trump...not the Golden Shower thing specifically but the other more down to earth reports about damning info.

So...it'd be hilarious if this is true as it could be enough to destroy his presidency.

Especailly if he's trying to cover it up...its always the coverup that gets you.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38589427

An interesting read to say the least.
Yup! It is particularly satisfying that the man who hounded Obama on a bogus conspiracy about his birth will now face the Presidency with a (likely) genuine conspiracy that he brought about by his own greed and amoral behaviour.
  #650  
Old 01-13-2017, 02:46 AM
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The Trump corruption is pretty intense stuff; I figured it would be bad but he's exceeded all my expectations with his cabinet and advisory appointments. It gets more depressing every day.
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  #651  
Old 01-13-2017, 02:27 PM
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The Trump corruption is pretty intense stuff; I figured it would be bad but he's exceeded all my expectations with his cabinet and advisory appointments. It gets more depressing every day.
His Secretary of Defense at least seems reasonable, and Secretary of State doesn't sound terrible...

But yeah.
  #652  
Old 01-13-2017, 03:00 PM
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His Secretary of Defense at least seems reasonable, and Secretary of State doesn't sound terrible...

But yeah.
His Defense Secretary does seem like a decent choice, but all the others are varying degrees of unqualified and awful. Tillerson seems somewhat less egregiously ridiculous of a selection only in comparison to the clowns that he has named for most of the other cabinet poistions, but the contrast between him and Kerry and Clinton is stark. It isn't just that he has no government experience, the links to Russia (a far too common theme) are also quite troubling. This is, unfortunately, indicative of the philosophical divide between dems and republicans. We like people who are from academia, or government, and mistrust businessmen. They like businessmen, and mistrust academics and career politicians/bureaucrats.
  #653  
Old 01-14-2017, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Rand al'Fain View Post
His Secretary of Defense at least seems reasonable, and Secretary of State doesn't sound terrible...

But yeah.
State is one of the worst picks. :/ Do you really want Exxon dictating foreign policy?
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  #654  
Old 01-14-2017, 04:02 PM
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Picking a fight with a civil rights hero over MLK weekend....

Lavish praise for authoritarians, vicious attacks on Americans who fought for freedom and equality.
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  #655  
Old 01-15-2017, 03:22 AM
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Picking a fight with a civil rights hero over MLK weekend....

Lavish praise for authoritarians, vicious attacks on Americans who fought for freedom and equality.
Water is still wet.
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  #656  
Old 01-15-2017, 11:16 AM
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Trump's reputation towards Russia is so tainted now that it would be enough for Putin to insinuate misconduct (without evidence) to cause serious harm and possible reason for blackmailing.
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  #657  
Old 01-15-2017, 11:19 AM
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Would such blackmail work, though?
I suspect that Trump would simply say "So what?"* to Putin and leave that expert at blackmail looking silly.

* Or something with that meaning but more fit for Twitter. I'm not nearly as good at that as Donald is, I admit.
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  #658  
Old 01-15-2017, 02:07 PM
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Trump's reputation towards Russia is so tainted now that it would be enough for Putin to insinuate misconduct (without evidence) to cause serious harm and possible reason for blackmailing.
It's hard to tell how much damage, if any, this has really done to him. It might be further eroding the ability to have a trusting relationship between him and the intel community, but it doesn't seem like any of his supporters care, and if anything only view this as a reinforcement of their mistrust of the media, as buzzfeed seems incapable of actually substantiating their story, and Trump has managed to conflate Buzzfeed's mishandling of this story with CNN and other more reputable outlets who simply were peripherally involved in the reporting. And this still doesn't strike me as worthy of blackmail or even particularly embarrassing. Kompromat works against individuals who are trying to defend a perception of piety and virtue. No one would ever had applied either of those qualities to Trump.

Tangential, however, to this Russia problem...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38630152

With their useful idiot in the White House, Russia perhaps won't be the only problem vis-a-vis unchecked bellicosity, Serbia also seems to be looking perhaps to reacquire lost provinces.
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Old 01-17-2017, 10:53 PM
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Stupid, out of touch elitist Democrats want to protest Trump for comments he's made, yet they ignore (and many celebrate) this shit. I had a feeling Obama would leave a pile of ashes behind, but this is beyond insane.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/u...vera.html?_r=0

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/u...-sentence.html

The latter a mentally ill traitor while the former a terrorist. Hey, at least they're minorities that we can all celebrate for some bs or another. Absolutely insane.
  #660  
Old 01-17-2017, 11:12 PM
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Stupid, out of touch elitist Democrats want to protest Trump for comments he's made, yet they ignore (and many celebrate) this shit. I had a feeling Obama would leave a pile of ashes behind, but this is beyond insane.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/u...vera.html?_r=0

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/u...-sentence.html

The latter a mentally ill traitor while the former a terrorist. Hey, at least they're minorities that we can all celebrate for some bs or another. Absolutely insane.
It's important to keep in mind that these were both commuted sentences, not pardons. Nonetheless, I would not have commuted Chelsea Manning's sentence myself, though his/her mental state doubtless played a large role in that decision.

This other case doesn't seem particularly controversial.

Quote:
The F.A.L.N., which waged a violent campaign for the independence of Puerto Rico, was considered by the authorities to be among the most elusive and resilient terrorist groups to operate in the United States. Among its notable attacks was a bombing at Fraunces Tavern in New York in 1975 that killed four people.

The group was known for its tight-knit membership, fanatical zeal and hit-and-run tactics, as exemplified by the bombings of four government buildings in Manhattan and Brooklyn on New Year’s Eve in 1982 that seriously wounded three police officers.

Mr. Lopez Rivera was not specifically charged in the Fraunces Tavern bombing but more broadly with, among other things, the interstate transportation of firearms with the intent to commit violent crimes, and transportation of explosives with intent to kill and injure people and to destroy government buildings and property.

President Bill Clinton offered Mr. Lopez Rivera and other members of the F.A.L.N. clemency in 1999, a decision that stirred an emotional debate. Mr. Clinton said their sentences were out of proportion with their offenses.

While 12 prisoners accepted the offer and were freed, Mr. Lopez Rivera rejected the chance to reduce his sentence because it did not include all of the group’s members, his lawyer, Jan Susler, said at the time. If he had accepted the agreement, she said, he would have been eligible for release in 2009.

A senior Obama administration official said on Tuesday that Mr. Lopez Rivera, 74, had served nearly half of his life in prison and was the only F.A.L.N. member still in prison.

In 1981, he was sentenced to 55 years for seditious conspiracy and in 1988 was sentenced to an additional 15 years for conspiring to escape from a prison in Fort Leavenworth, Kan.
I don't recall any particular stir, nor remember this at all to be honest, from back in '99 when Clinton offered the others clemency. Moreover, the man is 74, and has already been in prison since '81.
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