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  #761  
Old 01-30-2017, 09:48 PM
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They're not all evil, and even some of the ones that are, aren't stupid.
Enough of them are...there's no such thing as a Moderate Republican anymore.

None of them have any morals or any sense of what is right...or they never would have supported Trump in the first place. Its not like he hid any of what he intended to do before hand.
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  #762  
Old 01-30-2017, 09:51 PM
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Enough of them are...there's no such thing as a Moderate Republican anymore.

None of them have any morals or any sense of what is right...or they never would have supported Trump in the first place. Its not like he hid any of what he intended to do before hand.
I'm still holding out a little hope in Graham, McCain, and Collins. Pretty sad though that I can only think of three semi-decent republicans off the top of my head...
  #763  
Old 01-30-2017, 09:54 PM
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Sacked the acting AG, and the acting head of ICE for good measure just now.
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  #764  
Old 01-30-2017, 10:25 PM
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Let's just ignore all the other shit he's done of late like putting a anti-semite white supremacist on the National Security Council while at the same time removing the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Director of National Intelligence...

And the fact that he's putting out yet another Executive Order tomorrow on Cyber security...let me guess, he'll massively increase Patriot Act type monitoring and gut Net Neutrality?

Its barely been 10 days and he's already literally the worst President in history. Its only going to get worse.
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  #765  
Old 01-30-2017, 10:36 PM
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Its barely been 10 days and he's already literally the worst President in history. Its only going to get worse.
This certainly does feel far too similar to Andrew Jackson - who unfortunately was a two-term president.
  #766  
Old 01-30-2017, 10:40 PM
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This certainly does feel far too similar to Andrew Jackson - who unfortunately was a two-term president.
Andrew Jackson was far, far superior to Trump...and genuinely a "man of the people". He had some massive faults but he was one of the most capable men of his generation and a war hero on top of that with a ton of legislative experience as a Governor, Senator and Representative before his presidency.
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  #767  
Old 01-30-2017, 10:42 PM
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Andrew Jackson was far, far superior to Trump...and genuinely a "man of the people". He had some massive faults but he was one of the most capable men of his generation and a war hero on top of that with a ton of legislative experience as a Governor, Senator and Representative before his presidency.
Kind of hard to overlook the Trail of Tears, the Banking Crisis, his complete contempt for the supreme court...
  #768  
Old 01-30-2017, 10:46 PM
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Kind of hard to overlook the Trail of Tears, the Banking Crisis, his complete contempt for the supreme court...
I believe I mentioned the "massive faults"...but no one ever accused him of being incapable or stupid. He was actually a pretty brilliant guy who was an actual self-made man who came from nothing and earned everything he had. And his military reputation was legitimately earned over a long career. His legislative career was pretty successful too on top of that.

Yes, he was a bigot and a bit of a prick in other ways but he was always capable.

On the banking crisis, you could actually argue that he was doing what he was elected to do...the national bank was seen as a tool of eastern land speculators and big business and as something that was screwing over "the common man" that had voted for him and put him in office. Also, as a Westerner, he was naturally suspicious of eastern elites like those that ran the bank.
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"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

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  #769  
Old 01-30-2017, 11:09 PM
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I believe I mentioned the "massive faults"...but no one ever accused him of being incapable or stupid. He was actually a pretty brilliant guy who was an actual self-made man who came from nothing and earned everything he had. And his military reputation was legitimately earned over a long career. His legislative career was pretty successful too on top of that.

Yes, he was a bigot and a bit of a prick in other ways but he was always capable.

On the banking crisis, you could actually argue that he was doing what he was elected to do...the national bank was seen as a tool of eastern land speculators and big business and as something that was screwing over "the common man" that had voted for him and put him in office. Also, as a Westerner, he was naturally suspicious of eastern elites like those that ran the bank.
Well yeah, but you're also pretty much describing Trump...

Rich (check)
Bigot (check)
Demagogue who attacks eastern elites - basically just replace the National Bank with anti-trade (check)

I don't feel comfortable calling Jackson a military hero. The Battle of New Orleans might have nixed a very favorable peace treaty to a war wherein we essentially got our a*s kicked, and his conquest of Florida was illegal. His decision to destroy the bank was both foolish and vindictive, and it directly destabilized the economy. Add to that the Trail of Tears...

Trump has been awful. He probably will end up eclipsing Jackson, but Jackson still deserves to stand at the pinnacle of infamy for at least a few more weeks.

Last edited by Kimon; 01-30-2017 at 11:11 PM.
  #770  
Old 01-31-2017, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ShadowbaneX View Post
Hanlon's Law says never attribute to malice what can otherwise be attributed to incompetence, but this is making me nervous.

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/tr...1d5#.v1z2oo922

Anyone got anything to refute this?
I read this, but I think the truly terrifying thing is that even if this were complete hogwash (as to the intentions and planned nature of recent events), the threat is barely diminished. Read this:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ocracy/513872/

I think David Frum's analysis is the much more likely outcome. Not a coup by a tyrant, but an erosion of the democracy by a kleptocrat. I don't always see eye to eye with Frum, but he has consistently been the most clear-eyed conservative when it comes to the dangers of Trump.

Kimon: I'm sure Ryan would prefer Pence, but he has to weigh that against the hugely damaging politics of an impeachment. For certain, he will end u splitting the House Republicans. With the Dems, he has more than enough votes to impeach, but that will be seen as a betrayal by the Trump lobby. And that means an end to his dreams of privatizing Medicare, the army, the National Parks, and maybe even the janitorial staff at Congress.

I'm pretty sure he lacks the will and conviction to put the Democracy and the rule of law above his political priorities.

Last edited by fionwe1987; 01-31-2017 at 01:10 AM.
  #771  
Old 01-31-2017, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
If any Dem Senator has even the slightest spine, they'd immediately filibuster all of Trump's remaining nominees and especially Jeff Sessions.

They won't, though because they're the party of cowards and spineless bastards.
I'm pretty sure all those Cabinet positions were made filibuster-proof by the Dems in response to Republican obstructionism during the Obama years. Only a Supreme Court appointment can currently be filibustered, as far as I know.
  #772  
Old 01-31-2017, 08:36 AM
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Well yeah, but you're also pretty much describing Trump...

Rich (check)
Bigot (check)
Demagogue who attacks eastern elites - basically just replace the National Bank with anti-trade (check)

I don't feel comfortable calling Jackson a military hero. The Battle of New Orleans might have nixed a very favorable peace treaty to a war wherein we essentially got our a*s kicked, and his conquest of Florida was illegal. His decision to destroy the bank was both foolish and vindictive, and it directly destabilized the economy. Add to that the Trail of Tears...

Trump has been awful. He probably will end up eclipsing Jackson, but Jackson still deserves to stand at the pinnacle of infamy for at least a few more weeks.
I would argue the opposite effect of the Battle of New Orleans...do you really think the UK would have given back New Orleans and the mouth of the Mississippi if they had crushed the only US force in the area?

Also, regardless of how you view the battle's political consequences, his execution of the defense was perfectly done.

Also, his campaign against the Seminole was also pretty well executed from a military standpoint.

He was dangerously competent if nothing else. I can't say that about Trump.

Also, he was born penniless and made all his money so that's also the direct opposite of Trump.

His bigotry wasn't really that out of line for his time period whereas Trump actually treats women far worse than Jackson (who fought multiple duels to defend the honor of women). Trump's personal views of others are as least as bad as the worst aspects of Jackson but he's living in the 21st century, not the early 19th century. So...again, Jackson wins there.

Also, the defunding of the national bank didn't have to be a disaster...if the various State banks that took over those funds hadn't loosened lending standards, the panic of 1837 doesn't hit nearly as bad. So sure, it was a massive mistake on his part but all of the damage can't be put at his feet. Also, had Van Buren had even an iota of competency, he could have mitigated the damage too.
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Last edited by Davian93; 01-31-2017 at 08:39 AM.
  #773  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:24 PM
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The Jacksonian similarities are continuing to crop up.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...204-story.html

Quote:
"The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned!" Trump said.
Robart isn't exactly John Marshall, but neither was he a dem appointee. He was appointed by the Younger Bush.
  #774  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:39 PM
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The Jacksonian similarities are continuing to crop up.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...204-story.html



Robart isn't exactly John Marshall, but neither was he a dem appointee. He was appointed by the Younger Bush.
Can the world go back to being sane, rather than the prologue to some dystopian cyberpunk future? Please?
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  #775  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:57 PM
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Can the world go back to being sane, rather than the prologue to some dystopian cyberpunk future? Please?
4 years is a long time when in two weeks he has threatened to invade Mexico, threatened to attack Iran, fubared an attack on Yemen, yelled at and then hung up on the PM of Australia, and insulted (and this could be construed as threatened as well, considering how angry and stupid his supporters are) judges for daring to defend the rule of law.
  #776  
Old 02-04-2017, 07:09 PM
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Trump has actually been pretty solid. He just needs to keep his mouth shut, or in his case, stay off Twitter. The immigration ban is bad policy, and I think will eventually end up at the Supreme Court, but his executive orders rolling back the shit Obama shoved down our throat have been solid and his Supreme Court pick is fantastic. His attitude towards our European allies has been less than stellar, but the UN has been complete garbage and needs to be rolled back anyways.

I do have a huge issue with him calling out the federal judge in Washington, but then again, Obama harassed the Supreme Court justices leading up to the decision in NFIB (which rumor says influenced Roberts to essentially rewrite the law) so he's certainly not the first to be an ass.
  #777  
Old 02-04-2017, 07:56 PM
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Trump has actually been pretty solid. He just needs to keep his mouth shut, or in his case, stay off Twitter. The immigration ban is bad policy, and I think will eventually end up at the Supreme Court, but his executive orders rolling back the shit Obama shoved down our throat have been solid and his Supreme Court pick is fantastic. His attitude towards our European allies has been less than stellar, but the UN has been complete garbage and needs to be rolled back anyways.

I do have a huge issue with him calling out the federal judge in Washington, but then again, Obama harassed the Supreme Court justices leading up to the decision in NFIB (which rumor says influenced Roberts to essentially rewrite the law) so he's certainly not the first to be an ass.
This actually sums up quite well the concern - that his supporters will happily overlook quite a bit so long as he kills Roe...
  #778  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
Trump has actually been pretty solid. He just needs to keep his mouth shut, or in his case, stay off Twitter. The immigration ban is bad policy, and I think will eventually end up at the Supreme Court, but his executive orders rolling back the shit Obama shoved down our throat have been solid and his Supreme Court pick is fantastic. His attitude towards our European allies has been less than stellar, but the UN has been complete garbage and needs to be rolled back anyways.

I do have a huge issue with him calling out the federal judge in Washington, but then again, Obama harassed the Supreme Court justices leading up to the decision in NFIB (which rumor says influenced Roberts to essentially rewrite the law) so he's certainly not the first to be an ass.
Funny. I thought you of all people would actually be concerned given his utter contempt for the Constitution. I mean there seems to be plenty of people getting fired for telling him he's wrong on his immigration ban...you know, when they're supposed to.

God only knows what will happen to the Judge that shot it down. I believe he's already started with "that so-called Judge".
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  #779  
Old 02-04-2017, 09:09 PM
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God only knows what will happen to the Judge that shot it down. I believe he's already started with "that so-called Judge".
"Will no one rid me of this meddlesome..."
  #780  
Old 02-04-2017, 09:36 PM
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"Will no one rid me of this meddlesome..."
Funny you should say that, but someone else on another board quoted the exact same thing.

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4 years is a long time when in two weeks he has threatened to invade Mexico, threatened to attack Iran, fubared an attack on Yemen, yelled at and then hung up on the PM of Australia, and insulted (and this could be construed as threatened as well, considering how angry and stupid his supporters are) judges for daring to defend the rule of law.
Missed this. 4 years is eons. 2 weeks has been long enough. One thing that I truly don't get is this attack against Iran. Does he really think Russia will be all, "party in Iran! Last one there, buys the beer!" If Putin can convince Trump to go to war with Iran, he'll sit there and watch the US bleed. Bonus points if he can get them to leave the UN & NATO before hand.
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Last edited by ShadowbaneX; 02-04-2017 at 09:52 PM.
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