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  #1041  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
Yeah because Obamacare is a massive failure. We wouldn't be in this predicament if your party hadn't shoved a bs law that was built on lies through Congress. I feel bad for business owners who will now face the wrath of angry, ignorant Dems who will now go out and destroy in protest.
Much of the problem with Obamacare was that it was a republican plan, but signed by a dem president. Hence dems were (and are) annoyed that anything short of single-payer is incapable of really solving the problem, i.e. that it is still a profit-driven model. We thus have had a difficult time defending it, as though a minor improvement over what had preceded, we still feel that we conducted a pointlessly futile attempt at an olive branch with the republicans, when instead we should have simply rammed single-payer down their throats. Republicans, on the other hand, hate it due to its association with Obama (well, except the Tea Party types, but they are idiots). Sensible republicans liked protections for pre-existing conditions. Sensible republicans liked protections to allow mid-20s children to remain on their parents plans if they were financially independent.

They, admittedly, did not like the mandate, but then even sensible republicans are still irresponsible and irrational, that is, after all, why they are republicans. Those sensible republicans however also wanted to still use this as empty rhetoric. Unfortunately, with control of all three branches of govt, this rhetoric can no longer be empty.
  #1042  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:03 PM
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The BBC has a decent run-down of the most basic differences between the House version and Obama's.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39810145

On the Mandate...
Quote:
Obamacare: All Americans are required to have health insurance or pay a tax penalty.
Republican plan: The mandate is repealed, but individuals who forgo health insurance for more than 63 days must pay a 30% surcharge on their insurance premiums for a year
So, essentially you're screwed if you decide to roll the dice and drop health care, which would, at least, be an individual's own fault. But this raises another concern. Would this screw over people who change jobs, or are laid off? Either way, this seems a transparently stupid change. Unfortunately, I think that senate republicans will keep this one, as it is a philosophic divide between the two parties. Dems like to protect people against their own stupidity, republicans, in contrast, are the stupidity that we are trying to defend against.

On Employer Mandates...
Quote:
Obamacare: Companies with more than 50 employees are required to offer health insurance or pay a penalty.
Republican plan: This mandate is repealed.
This is why we need single-payer. Health care should come from the govt, not from your employer. Unfortunately, this clause is unlikely to change in the senate also.

On Financing...
Quote:
Obamacare: Raised Medicare taxes on the wealthy and imposed new taxes on medical devices, health insurers, drug companies, investment income, tanning salons and high-end health insurance plans.
Republican plan: Repeals most Obamacare taxes and delays implementation of the tax on high-end health insurance plans to 2026.
This is hardly a surprise. Republicans do not believe in paying for anything. They believe in running up the debt, and then expecting us to eventually clean up their mess. This, unfortunately, also will not change in the senate.

On the "Kids"...
Quote:
Obamacare: Required insurers to allow children under age 26 to be covered by their parents' policies
Republican plan: Maintains this requirement.
This was an obvious one. Lots of dems and republicans have deadbeat kids living in the basement.

On Pre-Existing Conditions...
Quote:
Obamacare: Prohibits insurers from denying coverage or charging more to individuals who have pre-existing medical conditions.
Republican plan: Gives states the option to waive pre-existing coverage requirements if they set up high-risk insurance plans for individuals who would be priced out by traditional insurers.
Dems paid for this with the taxes and mandates. Republicans, duh, refuse to pay for it. This is why their plan would quickly collapse and die if it ever is put into actual practice. For all their feigned complaints about problems with the ACA, problems with Obamacare will be insignificant compared to problems inevitable and intrinsic to their version.

On Essential Services...
Quote:
Obamacare: Requires all insurance plans to cover certain health conditions and services, such as emergency room visits, cancer treatment, annual physical exams, prescription drug costs, mental health counselling and women's health services.
Republican plan: Allows states to define what benefits are mandated or opt out of the requirement entirely.
House Republican Plan = Fake Health Care. This might change with the senate republicans. Might...

On Medicaid...
Quote:
Obamacare: Expanded Medicaid health insurance for the poor to cover more low-income individuals.
Republican plan: Curtails federal funding for Medicaid expansion beginning in 2020 and give states the option to receive federal dollars as a block grant instead of based on number of enrolees.
House Plan = F*ck the Poor. Senate republicans seem to be nervous about this one, but even if they are hesitant to overtly f*ck the poor (since many of those poor people vote republican), they still won't want to accept the reality that taxation is required to finance this.

On Subsidies...
Quote:
Obamacare: Provided refundable tax credits for low-income individuals who purchased their insurance on government-run marketplaces and support for some out-of-pocket medical expenses.
Republican plan: Makes tax credits based on an individual's age, which are phased out at higher income levels. Ends tax credits for out-of-pocket expenses.
F*ck the Poor Round 2.

Last edited by Kimon; 05-04-2017 at 05:06 PM.
  #1043  
Old 05-04-2017, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
Yeah because Obamacare is a massive failure. We wouldn't be in this predicament if your party hadn't shoved a bs law that was built on lies through Congress. I feel bad for business owners who will now face the wrath of angry, ignorant Dems who will now go out and destroy in protest.
...

I'd assume he was a troll, but he doesn't bother replying to anyone. He just spews his vomit and then leaves until his next chance.
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  #1044  
Old 05-05-2017, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
Yeah because Obamacare is a massive failure. We wouldn't be in this predicament if your party hadn't shoved a bs law that was built on lies through Congress. I feel bad for business owners who will now face the wrath of angry, ignorant Dems who will now go out and destroy in protest.
Your ignorance is utterly appalling.
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  #1045  
Old 05-05-2017, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Your ignorance is utterly appalling.
Does that mean that it is almost appealing?
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  #1046  
Old 05-05-2017, 07:36 PM
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A few more Trump hirings/nominations are running into vetting problems.

This guy was already the second failed attempt at filling the Army Secretary post:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39826909

Quote:
President Donald Trump's pick for Army Secretary has withdrawn his nomination amid backlash over his past controversial remarks.
Mark Green said his nomination had become a distraction due to "false and misleading attacks" against him.
The president's second pick for the post has outraged Democrats and some Republicans after his comments about the LGBT community were revealed.
The Tennessee state senator said last year "transgender is a disease".
"If you poll the psychiatrists, they're going to tell you that transgender is a disease," he told a Tea Party group last September in Chattanooga.
Three years earlier, Mr Green criticised former President Barack Obama for supporting what he described as "transvestites in uniform".
"Tragically, my life of public service and my Christian beliefs have been mischaracterised and attacked by a few on the other side of the aisle for political gain," the senator said in a statement.
And this guy was a Trump hiring for the State Department:
https://www.propublica.org/article/t...sexual-assault
Quote:
A political appointee hired by the Trump administration for a significant State Department role was accused of multiple sexual assaults as a student several years ago at The Citadel military college.

Steven Munoz was hired by the Trump administration as assistant chief of visits, running an office of up to 10 staffers charged with the sensitive work of organizing visits of foreign heads of state to the U.S. That includes arranging meetings with the president.

At The Citadel, five male freshmen alleged that Munoz used his positions as an upperclassman, class president and head of the campus Republican Society to grope them. In one incident, a student reported waking up with Munoz on top of him, kissing him and grabbing his genitals. In another, on a trip to the Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington, D.C., a student said that Munoz jumped on him in bed and he “felt jerking and bouncing on my back.”

An investigation by The Citadel later found that “certain assaults likely occurred.” A local prosecutor reviewed the case and declined to seek an indictment.
At a certain point this pattern begins to look less like a lack of thorough vetting, and more like a search specifically for individuals of low character.
  #1047  
Old 05-07-2017, 02:09 PM
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So, sanity prevailed today in France, as Macron beat Le Pen in a landslide, underscoring yet again that we are the only country (alongside our cousins across the Atlantic, since even if Trump's ascension has overshadowed the stupidity of Brexit, it was nonetheless colossally idiotic) that has gone full retard.

If one however needs yet another example of just how insanely stupid our country can be however...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39662428

Quote:
Marc Mitchell was at work when the police came to arrest him, last April, at the New Orleans hotel where he was a houseman. They handcuffed him in front of the customers and staff and took him to jail.

The officers couldn't tell him why there was a warrant with his name on it, only that the Orleans Parish district attorney wanted him picked up. He didn't find out until the sheriff's deputy at the jail read his booking sheet and raised an eyebrow at what she saw.
Quote:
Mr Mitchell was a victim, not a suspect. His booking sheet showed that he'd been arrested on a material witness warrant - a controversial tool used to detain witnesses and victims who prosecutors fear won't show up to trial.
In July 2014, Mr Mitchell and his cousin were at a public basketball court when they got into a dispute with 25-year-old Gerard Gray, a local gang leader, over who was up next. Gray ordered an associate, Jonterry Bernard, to kill them both. Bernard walked into the park moments later and fired 28 times.
Mr Mitchell, 41, was hit in the chest and leg. He suffered a collapsed lung and was hospitalised for a month. His cousin, Chris Chambers, was hit in the neck and nearly bled to death at the scene. In March 2015, both willingly testified at Bernard's trial and the gunman was sentenced to 100 years. In April 2016, Gray was due to go on trial and Mr Mitchell had been subpoenaed again to give evidence.
He signed the subpoena which legally obligated him to turn up at court, but told the district attorney's office he did not want to continue helping them them prepare their case due to safety concerns. "They were not looking out for me at all," he said.
The DA's office worried he might not testify. They obtained a material witness warrant, and five days before the trial was due to begin Mr Mitchell found himself at Orleans Parish Jail, under the same roof as the man he was due to testify against, who had already ordered his murder once.
Quote:
Someone arrested on a material witness warrant can in theory be detained indefinitely, and in most states detainees are not granted the basic constitutional protections afforded to suspects under arrest, such as Miranda rights, the right to a public defender, and the right to a prompt appearance before a judge.
"Judges grant these warrants largely on the basis of the DA's word only," said Ronald Carlson, a law professor at the University of Georgia. "And I think the public at large would be shocked to know that a defendant gets the right to an appointed attorney in a felony case, but there is no such right in many, if not most, jurisdictions for a material witness."
Orleans Parish, which sits within the most incarcerating city in the most incarcerating state in America, is one of those jurisdictions. The DA's office there says it does not keep records of when it requests a material witness warrant, but a local non-profit justice watchdog, Court Watch NOLA, undertook a time-consuming trawl through case files and found at least 30 cases last year in which one was issued.
In one case, a female rape victim was jailed for eight days after refusing to co-operate with a prosecution. In another, a domestic assault victim was jailed for six. Both were in the same jail as the perpetrator. Other cases included male victims of assault and attempted murder.
Quote:
Mr Mitchell couldn't afford to pay his $50,000 bond, so he faced the prospect of staying in jail until the trial began five days later, or longer if proceedings were delayed - which they were. Luckily, he had a friend who worked in the courthouse, who visited the judge in the case, Laurie White, the following day.
Judge White told the BBC that the DA's office portrayed Mr Mitchell as a serious flight risk, telling her he had bought a bus ticket out of town. The DA's written application for a warrant described a meeting with Mr Mitchell, painting him as un-cooperative, but neglected to mention that at the same meeting he signed a legally-binding subpoena to appear at the trial.
Quote:
Judge White reversed the warrant and had Mr Mitchell released. "I was very concerned about his safety," she said. "In the end he was a fantastic witness. It was a horrific crime and he should have been afraid, but he came to court and the perpetrator got a long sentence."
She said she is "now not so quick to issue any material witness bond requested by the DA's office until I find out more".
Four days after Mr Mitchell was released, he was sacked. He is still unemployed, save for odd jobs in construction.
"Even a couple of days in jail can destroy someone's life," said Colleen Kane Gielskie, a spokeswoman for the American Civil Liberties Union in New Orleans. "It sets off a cascading effect, you can lose a job, lose custody of children, all kinds of things that can have lasting consequences."
Wtf?
  #1048  
Old 05-08-2017, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Judge White told the BBC that the DA's office portrayed Mr Mitchell as a serious flight risk, telling her he had bought a bus ticket out of town.
I think that the DA should be made to prove that. Have the judge demand that he presents proof, and lock him up for contempt of court until he does. Spending a couple of centuries in jail trying to show a not-existing bus ticket might teach this lawyer some lessons. It might even have a properly cautionary effect on some others.

Of course, that won't happen. Lying to judges and juries is fully allowed for police and prosecutors, after all.
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  #1049  
Old 05-09-2017, 04:06 PM
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This is an interesting development.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39864950

Quote:
US President Donald Trump has approved supplying weapons to Kurdish forces fighting so-called Islamic State (IS) in Syria, the Pentagon says.
Kurdish elements of the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) would be equipped to help drive IS from its stronghold, Raqqa, a spokeswoman said.
Quote:
The Pentagon sees them as the most disciplined and organised of the anti-IS groups but Turkish opposition has meant Washington has had to tread a fine line.
The imminence of the fight for Raqqa means delay is no longer an option and the Kurds will be getting a range of equipment.
US sources say they have received assurances from the Kurds that they will leave Raqqa to be governed by Syrian Arabs after the battle.
Turkey's President Erdogan is due in Washington next week - he will not be a happy visitor.
  #1050  
Old 05-09-2017, 05:09 PM
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Trump just fired Comey.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39866170
  #1051  
Old 05-09-2017, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
On one hand, you had the head of the FBI trying to turn himself into a celebrity with the e-mail things of Clinton.

On the other, the timing of the firing is HIGHLY suspicious no matter how you look at it.
  #1052  
Old 05-09-2017, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand al'Fain View Post
On one hand, you had the head of the FBI trying to turn himself into a celebrity with the e-mail things of Clinton.

On the other, the timing of the firing is HIGHLY suspicious no matter how you look at it.
They must have believed that they had sufficient cover because essentially every democrat has gone on the record numerous times calling for Comey's head, questioning his integrity, and his actions. And for good reason. But that is not why Trump fired him. Trump praised Comey for conducting his witch-hunt of Hilary Clinton, but now that Comey refuses to abandon his investigation into Flynn et alii vis-a-vis their ties to Russia, indeed potentially his own suspicious ties to Russia, he thinks that just as with Yates and Bharara (the US Attorney for the Southern District of NY that Trump fired for refusing to abandon his own investigation into Trump), that if Comey won't perform proskynesis that he should be fired.

The response from the dems has been obvious. Clearly we see this all as a repetition of Nixon, but what the dems think unfortunately doesn't really matter. Unless enough republicans are bothered by this corruption, Trump will get away with this, will appoint some yes-man shill to head the FBI, probably Giuliani, and will have that shill do what the republicans in Congress have been willingly doing - kill the investigation into Russia, and instead just focus on the leaks. Which is insane, but for that leak to the Washington Post, Flynn would still be the Natl Security Advisor.

I see little reason to trust that the republicans in Congress will do the right thing. Hopefully I am wrong.

If Trump was smart, he would agree to have his Deputy Attorney General appoint a Special Prosecutor to run an "independent" investigation. It would be Trump (through his Justice Department - i.e. his Deputy Attorney General, it can't be Sessions that appoints one, as Sessions has already had to recuse himself) that would hand select that prosecutor. Thus they could more cleverly (indeed could have already done this) kill this whole issue. This special prosecutor wouldn't even need to be confirmed by the senate. The only way any real investigation likely ever occurs is if the dems retake the House and/or the Senate.

The only other way a real investigation happens is if Trump just embarrasses the republicans in Congress so egregiously that they decide to bring him down to save themselves. Admittedly, Trump seems to be trying to test just how much corruption and incompetence the republicans are willing to stomach in exchange for outlawing abortion. The answer unfortunately seems to be quite a bit.

Last edited by Kimon; 05-09-2017 at 07:57 PM.
  #1053  
Old 05-10-2017, 08:10 AM
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Its not a repetition of Nixon...because Nixon was highly intelligent and competent. He kept much better cover of his criminal acts than Trump has been doing.

Trump is like a retarded 5 year old mentality version of Nixon.
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  #1054  
Old 05-10-2017, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Its not a repetition of Nixon...because Nixon was highly intelligent and competent. He kept much better cover of his criminal acts than Trump has been doing.

Trump is like a retarded 5 year old mentality version of Nixon.
Who has just been reassured by his handlers that the incriminating videos will remain under wraps...for now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.890e85a89941
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  #1055  
Old 05-10-2017, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infidel View Post
Who has just been reassured by his handlers that the incriminating videos will remain under wraps...for now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.890e85a89941
The best part of that WH meeting is that the WH Press Corps was banned from it but the Russian Press wasn't.

WAKE THE FUCK UP, AMERICA!!!
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  #1056  
Old 05-10-2017, 03:35 PM
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So, how long until America is a dictatorship under the rule of Trump and becomes a police state?
  #1057  
Old 05-11-2017, 03:06 AM
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Depends on whether the GOP figures out any time soon that defending him is politically untenable.
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  #1058  
Old 05-11-2017, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Depends on whether the GOP figures out any time soon that defending him is politically untenable.
But it would only be untenable if eventually he is overthrown. If they never bother impeaching him (or if he successfully orders the US Army to shoot the Senate when they do), then continued support has no downsides to them, does it?

It's not as if the majority of American voters ever cared about anything at all, after all.
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Old 05-11-2017, 09:40 AM
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Kimon Kimon is offline
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Similarities to the Saturday Night Massacre are already rampant, but were almost even more so, as just as Richardson and Ruckelshaus refused to fire Archibald Cox, forcing the infamous Robert Bork to wield the hatchet, Rosenstein apparently threatened to resign over this...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39886496

It unfortunately just adds to the shame of this whole situation that not only did Rosenstein fail to do what he should have, and like Richardson and Ruckelshaus actually resign, but congressional republicans have been far less bothered by this recent act of autocracy than had their counterparts all those years ago.

And let's be blunt, the allegations here are far more nefarious, far more treasonous than those ever made against Nixon and his cronies. Both were conducting opposition espionage on the dems, but at least no one thought that Nixon and his men were working for the Kremlin.
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Old 05-11-2017, 10:21 AM
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And let's be blunt, the allegations here are far more nefarious, far more treasonous than those ever made against Nixon and his cronies. Both were conducting opposition espionage on the dems, but at least no one thought that Nixon and his men were working for the Kremlin.
Mind you, it is entirely possible that Trump thinks the Kremlin works for him. Will be interesting to see what happens when he fires Putin.
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