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  #1101  
Old 05-16-2017, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by fionwe1987 View Post
Firstly, no, not made up. Leaked, yes, made up, no, since we have independent verification from Buzzfeed and NYT's sources, so far as I can tell.

And you do realize that you're saying that "Fake news" as Trump understands it, is a bigger issue that Trump's words and actions that are causing real harm? How the f*ck does that make any sense?

ETA: Reuters too, has independent verification from their own sources. And WaPo clearly stated they weren't revealing details at the urging of intelligence officials who said naming the city can reveal info about the sources and methods of intelligence gathering, meaning what Trump revealed to the Russians, and what all these news sources very correctly haven't made public, is something the intelligence community believes could be harmful for their operation to reveal.
In Southpaw's defense, as he correctly notes, yes indeed, "bottom line is someone is making shit up to get rid of Trump". That someone is, however, Trump himself. These are all self-inflicted wounds. There is no vast left-wing conspiracy. There is no shadow govt of Hillary and Obama spies making Trump look bad. Trump is just stupid.
  #1102  
Old 05-16-2017, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
This smells so much like an attempted political coup... What's going on is that someone on the inside is getting paid to release bs information to get Trump impeached, and then the Left-wing media (mainstream media, same thing) is running with it. Every person is denying the story, and until we know more it's ridiculous to regard what has happened as fact. The story that Trump filed Comey for investigating Russia is more legitimate than this, and that too shouldn't be taken too seriously until Comey testifies and we learn more.

The bottom line is someone is making shit up to get rid of Trump, and that should be more alarming than anything Trump has said or done.

Remember, the Clinton News Network thought it was necessary to report how many scoops of ice cream Trump eats compared to the rest of his staff.
~shakes head~

Amazing how you went from hating Trump during the primaries because you were too busy humping Ted Cruz's leg to basically twisting yourself into knots to defend everything he does regardless of him outright admitting the real reasoning and you ignoring it.
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  #1103  
Old 05-16-2017, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
In Southpaw's defense, as he correctly notes, yes indeed, "bottom line is someone is making shit up to get rid of Trump". That someone is, however, Trump himself. These are all self-inflicted wounds. There is no vast left-wing conspiracy. There is no shadow govt of Hillary and Obama spies making Trump look bad. Trump is just stupid.
Ain't that the truth.

You know, it's one thing that this child-man is President of a global superpower, but it's even worse that so many people continue to defend him and turn a blind eye to the glaring fact of his ineptitude (looks directly at Southpaw). Trump is who he is. It is the people that are propping him up and supporting him that I fear the most. The level of self-delusion is terrifying.
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  #1104  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Brita View Post
Ain't that the truth.

You know, it's one thing that this child-man is President of a global superpower, but it's even worse that so many people continue to defend him and turn a blind eye to the glaring fact of his ineptitude (looks directly at Southpaw). Trump is who he is. It is the people that are propping him up and supporting him that I fear the most. The level of self-delusion is terrifying.
Unfortunately, this sort of thing is common in a dying Republic...the same sort of issues happened in Rome during the first century BCE while they hurdled from Sulla/Marius to Caesar/Pompey to finally Octavian wiping away what was left of their Republic.

Trump is merely a symptom of that sort of decade of government institutions and he is something that the US may never recover from in its current form of government. It is far easier to destroy an institution than to rebuild one. The damage he is doing right now is quite serious and the fact that seemingly 2/5 to 1/2 of the population supports him in the name of "Sticking it to the Liberals" is terrifying. They literally support everything he does...that's why his approval rating has basically dropped no lower than 40% no matter what he's done. They know and they just don't care or they don't believe the "fake new Liberal media". These are people that think Foxnews has become too liberal. We've gotten to the point where nobody even agrees on the facts (as shown by Southpaw's idiotic comments every time he posts). How do you compromise when you have two separate realities?
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  #1105  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
In Southpaw's defense, as he correctly notes, yes indeed, "bottom line is someone is making shit up to get rid of Trump". That someone is, however, Trump himself. These are all self-inflicted wounds. There is no vast left-wing conspiracy. There is no shadow govt of Hillary and Obama spies making Trump look bad. Trump is just stupid.
I was going to put a smile emoji here, but I just can't. This is the truth, and the fact that it is is depressing as hell.
  #1106  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:40 PM
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Don't think the republicans will ever let Comey testify in public before the Congress again...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/u...stigation.html

Quote:
WASHINGTON — President Trump asked the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, to shut down the federal investigation into Mr. Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, in an Oval Office meeting in February, according to a memo that Mr. Comey wrote shortly after the meeting.

“I hope you can let this go,” the president told Mr. Comey, according to the memo.

The existence of Mr. Trump’s request is the clearest evidence that the president has tried to directly influence the Justice Department and F.B.I. investigation into links between Mr. Trump’s associates and Russia.

Mr. Comey wrote the memo detailing his conversation with the president immediately after the meeting, which took place the day after Mr. Flynn resigned, according to two people who read the memo. The memo was part of a paper trail Mr. Comey created documenting what he perceived as the president’s improper efforts to influence an ongoing investigation. An F.B.I. agent’s contemporaneous notes are widely held up in court as credible evidence of conversations.

Mr. Comey shared the existence of the memo with senior F.B.I. officials and close associates. The New York Times has not viewed a copy of the memo, which is unclassified, but one of Mr. Comey’s associates read parts of the memo to a Times reporter.
  #1107  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
Don't think the republicans will ever let Comey testify in public before the Congress again...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/u...stigation.html
The picture becomes clearer, now. Comey, I hope, has enough detailed notes to share, and will share it outside of Congress. I suspect the FBI itself may subpoena these notes, and based on them might well be able to bring a charge of criminal obstruction of justice.
  #1108  
Old 05-16-2017, 05:18 PM
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And who could forget that the Obama administration leaked intelligence regarding secret Israeli military facilities to protect our frenemy, Iran (friend to liberals, enemy to the West)?
  #1109  
Old 05-16-2017, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
And who could forget that the Obama administration leaked intelligence regarding secret Israeli military facilities to protect our frenemy, Iran (friend to liberals, enemy to the West)?
Context matters. So does intent.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...trike-on-iran/

Quote:
JERUSALEM - Two reports today about Iran's nuclear program and the possibility of an Israeli military strike have analysts in Israel accusing the Obama administration leaking information to pressure Israel not to bomb Iran and for Iran to reach a compromise in upcoming nuclear talks.
  #1110  
Old 05-16-2017, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
And who could forget that the Obama administration leaked intelligence regarding secret Israeli military facilities to protect our frenemy, Iran (friend to liberals, enemy to the West)?
From what I understand, though, the intel wasn't shared by Israel to the US, and then leaked by the US to Israel's enemy. This was intel gathered by the US, which it has every right to use for its strategic interests.

The problem with the Trump leak is that it was intel given by Israel to the US, but further sharing of that info to anyone was not cleared by them. All evidence points to the source being an Israeli intel asset, and the US surely has no right to compromise that without permission no matter what strategic interest may or may not be served. And the US certainly doesn't have the right to blab it out without thought to brag about the President's supposedly great intel.
  #1111  
Old 05-16-2017, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by fionwe1987 View Post
The picture becomes clearer, now. Comey, I hope, has enough detailed notes to share, and will share it outside of Congress. I suspect the FBI itself may subpoena these notes, and based on them might well be able to bring a charge of criminal obstruction of justice.
They don't need to, he already shared them as part of the FBI's official record. They're professional memorandums. Lots of high-ranking gov't officials do this as a matter of course to document official meetings. Hell, I do it and I'm a couple steps below that. Its important to document stuff...especially meetings.
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  #1112  
Old 05-16-2017, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
And who could forget that the Obama administration leaked intelligence regarding secret Israeli military facilities to protect our frenemy, Iran (friend to liberals, enemy to the West)?
Leaking 3rd party intel that was willingly shared without that 3rd party's permission is a massive violation of the trust and wording of such sharing agreements. You'd understand that if you ever had a real job or worked in that arena.

This is literally the #1 thing you DO NOT do like ever. The legal equivalent would be if you negotiated a plea bargain in good faith and then found a loophole to use that information to press for a maximum sentence instead of the agreement....except for its a million times worse and It destroys any credibility we will ever have to ever share any intel with allies again.

Fucking ignorant child.
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  #1113  
Old 05-16-2017, 08:48 PM
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Chaffetz has requested "all memoranda, notes, summaries, recordings" related to communications between James Comey and President Trump by May 24.

Dare one hope?
  #1114  
Old 05-16-2017, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by fionwe1987 View Post
Chaffetz has requested "all memoranda, notes, summaries, recordings" related to communications between James Comey and President Trump by May 24.

Dare one hope?
This is for the Oversight Committee, which Chaffetz chairs. Leaving aside the obvious fact that Chaffetz is a schmuck who definitely cannot be trusted to ever do the right thing, he also isn't particularly meaningful in moving this forward. For that it would be the Judiciary Committee. There are 24 republicans and 17 dems on that committee.

Try to find 4 honest and honorable republicans on Judiciary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._the_Judiciary

Keep in mind, even with Nixon, republicans on the Judiciary Committee voted against impeachment on all the charges. Those votes only passed because there were so many more dems at the time than republicans in Congress. There were 17 republicans and 21 dems on that committee at the time. Even with Watergate, those republicans voted 6 yes and 11 no on Obstruction of Justice, 7 yes and 10 no on Abuse of Power, and 2 yes with 15 no on Contempt of Congress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeac..._Richard_Nixon

And that was in the '70s, with a still, at least comparatively reasonable republican party. Now? This is no longer the Party of Lincoln. It's the Party of Jefferson Davis. Of the republicans that voted to acquit Bill Clinton only Susan Collins remains. Making her essentially the Last of the Mohicans. The others? John Chafee (whose son Lincoln Chafee famously defected to the dems), Jim Jeffords (switched to Independent), Arlen Specter (defected to the dems), and Olympia Snowe (Susan Collins retired colleague from Maine, like her one of the last of the true Republicans, i.e. not some despicable Confederacy Sympathizer).

Maybe if the dems regain the House in '18 we can start to think about impeachment. Until then this is just schadenfreude.
  #1115  
Old 05-16-2017, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
This is for the Oversight Committee, which Chaffetz chairs. Leaving aside the obvious fact that Chaffetz is a schmuck who definitely cannot be trusted to ever do the right thing...
I don't know why you speak about people in absolutes like this. You said the same kind of thing about Comey because he did one thing you didn't like. Chaffetz can definitely be a schmuck but ever since he decided not to run for reelection (for what appears to be a dumb trumped-up reason) he's been noticeably more diligent in his work on this. Not having to worry about political pressure can go a long way.
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  #1116  
Old 05-16-2017, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I don't know why you speak about people in absolutes like this. You said the same kind of thing about Comey because he did one thing you didn't like. Chaffetz can definitely be a schmuck but ever since he decided not to run for reelection (for what appears to be a dumb trumped-up reason) he's been noticeably more diligent in his work on this. Not having to worry about political pressure can go a long way.
Comey was an awful FBI Director. It doesn't change the fact that Trump fired him for an even worse reason. If Comey's memo is really accurate he should have resigned back in February when Trump tried to obstruct the investigation, instead he just used that memo as an insurance policy. And Chaffetz? He spent the past few years initiating one nonsensical Benghazi investigation after another. He has not suddenly found integrity and ethics.
  #1117  
Old 05-16-2017, 11:23 PM
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Comey was an awful FBI Director.
I've yet to see any evidence of that.

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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
If Comey's memo is really accurate he should have resigned back in February when Trump tried to obstruct the investigation...
And let Trump appoint a stooge? I fail to see how that would have been the right thing to do.
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  #1118  
Old 05-17-2017, 12:01 AM
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I've yet to see any evidence of that.
I get that you're a Bernie supporter, but how he handled the investigation into Hillary's emails was insane, and resulted in Trump's election. And while he publicly reopened her case over redundant emails to Huma Abedin just days before the election, he continued to sit on the far more insidious case of Trump's ties to Russia. His love for the camera and for personal attention only seems less narcissistic in comparison to the far more egregious example of Trump. But it is still inappropriate. The problem with Hillary's private email server was not that she was sending classified emails, it was that she was using a private server to avoid a concrete paper trail. Neither was criminal. It should have just involved writing a new law to require use of a government email for all high public officials. The fact that Pence was using both his own and his govt email while governor of Indiana simultaneous to the scandal highlights the hypocrisy. It was a legislative matter. Not criminal. The FBI should not have been involved. It was partisan. Comey is not a hero. He is not brave.

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And let Trump appoint a stooge? I fail to see how that would have been the right thing to do.
Should Yates, like Comey, have stayed silent? I suppose you could argue that she was destined to be fired and/or replaced soon anyway, but what she did was still far more courageous, far more honorable than anything that Comey has done. We can hope that he would have eventually done the right thing, but he seemed far more concerned with defending his own reputation and with maintaining peace and collegiality (hence letting certain NEW York field office agents push their republican agenda in the lead up to the election) in the FBI than with defending justice and actually bringing Flynn and Trump to justice. This investigation almost certainly goes nowhere if Trump just would have left Comey alone. Firing Comey was likely the only possible catalyst for setting anything meaningful in motion.

Last edited by Kimon; 05-17-2017 at 12:09 AM.
  #1119  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:59 AM
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To be fair to Comey on the email thing, he didn't publicly reopen it, he gave a confidential report to Congress (Chaffetz specifically) who then ran to the Press like Charlie going home with the golden ticket.

He was a bit of an attention whore which is inexcusable but that reopening wasn't necessarily his fault since he's not the one that leaked it.

Perhaps Clinton shouldn't have kept a private email server...her own arrogance and paranoia destroyed her. Comey only gave a minor assist there.

The fact that both sides now hate him says he might not be that bad of a Director after all.
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  #1120  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:37 AM
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Let's not ignore Comey's bizarre end-of-investigation speech on Clinton, announcing there was nothing there to prosecute but denouncing her anyway. Except for the absurdity of Trump suddenly using it as an excuse to fire him, that totally seems like a fireable offence.
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