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  #41  
Old 04-24-2017, 11:50 AM
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It is very easy then to ignore the stuff you don't want to believe.
For reference, see the current GOP with anything related to science...
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  #42  
Old 04-24-2017, 12:33 PM
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For reference, see the current GOP with anything related to science...
Everytime I see someone say the Aes Sedai were incredibly ornery, ignorant, stupid, self-serving, moronic... I feel the need to point to our current ogvernment and show people that real life can be much, much, worse. Elaida is a model of competence in comparison.
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  #43  
Old 04-25-2017, 12:43 PM
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I don't think cutting any of the "main" characters (Two Rivers crowd plus Elayne/Min/Aviendha) would serve the show well. Not all of them need a ton of time, and Rand doesn't spend much time with any of them (in terms of multiple books) except Min. You don't even have to have them be love interests, necessarily, though I don't see why not. If Game of Thrones can introduce incestuous, child-murdering siblings who are main characters in the first season, no reason polyamory can't work.

The way to make this work is to cut or truncate every single non-main character related storyline. Axe the Shaido post-Cairhien. Get rid of Ebou Dar and the Bowl of the Winds - have Elayne transition straight from the rebels to the Succession. Sadly, cut out Morgase/Tallanvor. Cut Galad. Keep Gawyn but cut his storyline, and reduce it to the Elayne-or-Egwene internal struggle between Prince and Warder. Cut all of Mat's carnival shenanigans. Cut all of Perrin from the latter half of the series.

The good news is that books 1-4 are very readily adaptable to TV. The characters stay together, or in a few bunches. The books end with identifiable victories and challenges for Team Light, and ultimate episodes can set up plotlines and/or cliffhangers for the next season (Horn gets stole in last episode of Season 1, Lanfear arrives and Rand gets identity issues in last episode of Season 2, Rand heads to the Waste for Season 3, etc).

I think the key to the whole thing is to compress a bunch of the tertiary characters into only a few. All the Aiel Wise Ones get distilled into Amys. All the Aes Sedai around Rand (sans Moiraine) become Cadsuane. Have some extras, to be sure, so we get a sense of scale of the organizations, but we don't need so much. Rebel Aes Sedai become Sheriam, Romanda, Lelaine. Etc. You can cut MASSIVE parts of the books out without losing anything.

Use Game of Thrones as the template for the storytelling. We meet an easy two dozen characters of major importance within the first two episodes (Starks minus Rickon, Lannisters, Robert & Joffrey, the Hound, Daenerys/Jorah... that's 15 right there, without Tommon/Myrcela/Theon/Drogo/Viserys etc), and you don't need more than half that number in WoT. You've got the boys, Egwene/Nynaeve, Lan and Moiraine, Thom, Tam, and Fain. That's ten. You don't meet another even remotely important character until Min.
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  #44  
Old 04-25-2017, 02:37 PM
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Use Game of Thrones as the template for the storytelling. We meet an easy two dozen characters of major importance within the first two episodes (Starks minus Rickon, Lannisters, Robert & Joffrey, the Hound, Daenerys/Jorah... that's 15 right there, without Tommon/Myrcela/Theon/Drogo/Viserys etc), and you don't need more than half that number in WoT. You've got the boys, Egwene/Nynaeve, Lan and Moiraine, Thom, Tam, and Fain. That's ten. You don't meet another even remotely important character until Min.
~coughs~

Bela, you forgot Bela

~coughs again~
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  #45  
Old 04-25-2017, 04:54 PM
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I'd actually personally like to keep Galad in and his turn to the Whitecloaks but it is true I'm not sure if you'd even include the Whitecloaks into the series, and if not, Galad shouldn't even exist
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  #46  
Old 04-25-2017, 04:57 PM
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I'd actually personally like to keep Galad in and his turn to the Whitecloaks but it is true I'm not sure if you'd even include the Whitecloaks into the series, and if not, Galad shouldn't even exist
The Whitecloaks serve a very similar purpose as the Seanchan, thematically. I don't think they bring anything unique to the series.
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  #47  
Old 04-25-2017, 05:02 PM
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The Whitecloaks serve a very similar purpose as the Seanchan, thematically. I don't think they bring anything unique to the series.
Yes they do, they're key to Making Randland Great Again...
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  #48  
Old 04-25-2017, 06:56 PM
Great Lord of the Dark Great Lord of the Dark is offline
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Default Can't cut all tertiary characters

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
I don't think cutting any of the "main" characters (Two Rivers crowd plus Elayne/Min/Aviendha) would serve the show well. Not all of them need a ton of time, and Rand doesn't spend much time with any of them (in terms of multiple books) except Min. You don't even have to have them be love interests, necessarily, though I don't see why not. If Game of Thrones can introduce incestuous, child-murdering siblings who are main characters in the first season, no reason polyamory can't work.

The way to make this work is to cut or truncate every single non-main character related storyline. Axe the Shaido post-Cairhien. Get rid of Ebou Dar and the Bowl of the Winds - have Elayne transition straight from the rebels to the Succession. Sadly, cut out Morgase/Tallanvor. Cut Galad. Keep Gawyn but cut his storyline, and reduce it to the Elayne-or-Egwene internal struggle between Prince and Warder. Cut all of Mat's carnival shenanigans. Cut all of Perrin from the latter half of the series.

The good news is that books 1-4 are very readily adaptable to TV. The characters stay together, or in a few bunches. The books end with identifiable victories and challenges for Team Light, and ultimate episodes can set up plotlines and/or cliffhangers for the next season (Horn gets stole in last episode of Season 1, Lanfear arrives and Rand gets identity issues in last episode of Season 2, Rand heads to the Waste for Season 3, etc).

I think the key to the whole thing is to compress a bunch of the tertiary characters into only a few. All the Aiel Wise Ones get distilled into Amys. All the Aes Sedai around Rand (sans Moiraine) become Cadsuane. Have some extras, to be sure, so we get a sense of scale of the organizations, but we don't need so much. Rebel Aes Sedai become Sheriam, Romanda, Lelaine. Etc. You can cut MASSIVE parts of the books out without losing anything.

Use Game of Thrones as the template for the storytelling. We meet an easy two dozen characters of major importance within the first two episodes (Starks minus Rickon, Lannisters, Robert & Joffrey, the Hound, Daenerys/Jorah... that's 15 right there, without Tommon/Myrcela/Theon/Drogo/Viserys etc), and you don't need more than half that number in WoT. You've got the boys, Egwene/Nynaeve, Lan and Moiraine, Thom, Tam, and Fain. That's ten. You don't meet another even remotely important character until Min.
I see the point and need to simplify, but it would bring some tough decisions later. Notably, how do you keep Rand shielded with 13 Aes Sedai if you only ever bothered to show 10 of them? Would you change the size of a circle? If you did then you have enough channelers in your mains that you eliminate the need to collaborate with so many other different cultures, which is a key element of the story.

I think the better approach is to keep in most tertiary characters, and reduce them to 1-2 speaking lines. No need for their life story. But you can't have quarreling Ajahs without at least 1, preferably 3 representatives of each. Then you have to make 1 in 5 of them a Black Ajah or they are no threat. So you need numbers. Less screen time sure, reduced roles, but they need to be there.

Tertiary characters add to the flavour of what Rand must face. He can't just beat evil, there are shades of evil, and Rand must learn that the world is a horribly complex place if he is to lose hope and go dark. I don't mind reducing the length of plots from middle books, but the reason they are there is that the characters are all realizing that you can't do one thing without affecting all the other things, sometimes in bad ways. There are no simple answers. The show can reduce complexity, but it still must appear complex and impossible, leading to those key decision points atop Dragonmount and choosing an axe.
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  #49  
Old 04-26-2017, 04:35 AM
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I think the better approach is to keep in most tertiary characters, and reduce them to 1-2 speaking lines.
"Others go away. Narg stay. Narg smart."
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  #50  
Old 04-26-2017, 01:08 PM
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Honestly if the TV version doesn't have Bela as the DO then I'm not sure what the point of even adapting it is.
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  #51  
Old 04-26-2017, 01:20 PM
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Honestly if the TV version doesn't have Bela as the DO then I'm not sure what the point of even adapting it is.
Agreed.
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  #52  
Old 04-26-2017, 03:12 PM
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Honestly if the TV version doesn't have Bela as the DO then I'm not sure what the point of even adapting it is.
As the DO? Such blasphemy! She is the CREATOR!!!!
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  #53  
Old 04-28-2017, 08:19 AM
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Anyone else find themselves fielding a lot of Wot questions since this news dropped? on facebook and in real life etc.

I have but im happy to do so.

But if I have one more person shit on the series for being "misogynistic" or that its "all hair braids and sniffing" and then admit they havent read it and that they think GoT is "a better, tighter written series with proper gender politics" I may get violent.
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:28 AM
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Fold your arms, sniff, and pull your (or someone's, at least) hair. That'll convince them, I am sure.
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:30 AM
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Fold your arms, sniff, and pull your (or someone's, at least) hair. That'll convince them, I am sure.
oh no, that will make it much worse.
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  #56  
Old 04-28-2017, 10:19 AM
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Anyone else find themselves fielding a lot of Wot questions since this news dropped? on facebook and in real life etc.

I have but im happy to do so.

But if I have one more person shit on the series for being "misogynistic" or that its "all hair braids and sniffing" and then admit they havent read it and that they think GoT is "a better, tighter written series with proper gender politics" I may get violent.
Both series' share a lot of fault with regards to misogyny in their work, but it really does bother me when people prop up GRRM like he's the messiah of writing and egalitarianism

sorry grrm I don't need to see multiple people raped to understand the significance that rape has.
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:04 AM
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Definitely been fielding a lot more questions. And request for my copies of the books, which are disappearing from my shelf quite quickly now!

As for the misogyny thing... my own take on it has altered over the years. While I don't think GRRM is any better, I'm more and more aware that RJ's views on gender politics are dated, and in some cases quite bizarre. For all that, the series has a lot of women with agency, and back when I first read it, was an eye opener for me that helped lead me to feminism, so I still deeply appreciate it.
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  #58  
Old 04-28-2017, 11:17 AM
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Definitely been fielding a lot more questions. And request for my copies of the books, which are disappearing from my shelf quite quickly now!

As for the misogyny thing... my own take on it has altered over the years. While I don't think GRRM is any better, I'm more and more aware that RJ's views on gender politics are dated, and in some cases quite bizarre. For all that, the series has a lot of women with agency, and back when I first read it, was an eye opener for me that helped lead me to feminism, so I still deeply appreciate it.
pretty much Nynaeve and Moiraine helped with that a lot specifically for me as a 90's kid growing up with it
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:23 AM
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pretty much Nynaeve and Moiraine helped with that a lot specifically for me as a 90's kid growing up with it
Egwene too, for me. I loved that she is portrayed as an ambitious woman, and in story, no judgment is attached to it. Sure, Rand goes off on the deep end on it, but that is somewhat understandable, and it is never shown as him being right.

For me, this was offset by the utterly absurd reaction her ambition got from the readers. I'm pretty sure going into forums and seeing how negatively everyone reacted to it was one of the big pushes for me towards realizing the extent of misogyny in our world.
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:25 AM
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Egwene too, for me. I loved that she is portrayed as an ambitious woman, and in story, no judgment is attached to it. Sure, Rand goes off on the deep end on it, but that is somewhat understandable, and it is never shown as him being right.

For me, this was offset by the utterly absurd reaction her ambition got from the readers. I'm pretty sure going into forums and seeing how negatively everyone reacted to it was one of the big pushes for me towards realizing the extent of misogyny in our world.
As an Egwene disliker...My issue with Egwene is more with how BS started writing her (the whole Egwene the girl and Egwene the amyrlin was brutal) along with her mistakes in judgment made while under Aran'gar's compulsion. I think those are pretty fair criticisms that have nothing to do with misogyny.
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