Theoryland of the Wheel of Time

First off, Dreadlords was the name given to men and women who could channel and sided with the Shadow in the Trolloc Wars. Yes, the women were called Dreadlords, too. They might have liked to call themselves "the Chosen," like the Forsaken, but feared to. The real Forsaken might not have appreciated it when they returned, as prophecies of the Shadow foretold would happen. Some of the Dreadlords had authority and responsibility equivalent to that of the Forsaken in the War of the Shadow, however. They ran the Shadow's side of the Trolloc Wars, though without the inherent ability to command the Myrddraal that the Forsaken possess, meaning they had to negotiate with them. Overall command at the beginning was in another's hands.

Forsaken was the name given to Aes Sedai who went over to the Shadow in the War of the Shadow at the end of the Age of Legends, though of course, they called themselves the Chosen, and despite the tales of the "current" Age, there were many more than a few of them. Since they occupied all sorts of levels, you might say that many were equivalent to some of the lesser Dreadlords, but it would be incorrect to call them so. At the time, they were all Forsaken—or Chosen—from the greatest to the least.

Some of those Forsaken the Dark One killed were every bit as high-ranking as the thirteen who were remembered, and who you might say constituted a large part of the Dark One's General Staff at the time of the sealing. With the Forsaken, where treachery and backstabbing were an acceptable way of getting ahead, the turnover in the upper ranks was fairly high, though Ishamael, Demandred, Lanfear, Graendal, Semirhage, and later Sammael, were always at the top end of the pyramid. They were very skilled at personal survival, politically and physically.

In large part the thirteen were remembered because they were trapped at Shayol Ghul, and so their names became part of that story, though it turned out that details of them, stories of them, survived wide-spread knowledge of the tale of the actual sealing itself. Just that they had been sealed away. Other Forsaken were left behind, so to speak, free but in a world that was rapidly sliding down the tube. The men eventually went mad and died from the same taint that killed off the other male Aes Sedai. They had no access to the Dark One's protective filters. The women died, too, though from age or in battle or from natural disasters created by insane male Aes Sedai or from diseases that could no longer be controlled because civilization itself had been destroyed and access to those who were skilled in Healing was all but gone. And soon after their deaths, their names were forgotten, except for what might possibly be discovered in some ancient manuscript fragment that survived the Breaking. A bleak story of people who deserved no better, and not worth telling in any detail.

Does evil need to be effective to be evil? And how do you define effectiveness? Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge managed to murder about 25-30% of Cambodia's population, destroy the country's agricultural and industrial base, fairly well wipe out the educated class inside the country (defined as anyone with an education beyond the ability to read; a good many of those went too, of course), and in general became so rabid that only China was willing to maintain any sort of contact with them, and that at arm's length. Their rabidity was the prime reason that they ended up losing the country. (though they are still around and still causing trouble.) In other words, they were extremely ineffective in attaining their goal, which was to seize Cambodia, remake it in the way Pol Pot wished (and still wishes), and export their brand of revolution abroad. Looking at the death toll, the cities emptied out (hospital patients were told they had one hour to leave or die; post-op patients, those still in the operating room, everybody), the murders of entire families down to infants because one member of the family was suspected of "counter-revolutionary" crimes, the mass executions (one method was for hundreds of people to be bound hand and foot, then bulldozed into graves alive; the bulldozers drove back and forth over these mass graves until attempts to dig out stopped)—given all of that, can you say that Khmer Rough's ineffectiveness made them less evil? Irrationality is more fearful than rationality (if we can use that term in this regard) because if you have brown hair and know that the serial killer out there is only killing blondes, you are safe, but if he is one of those following no easily discernible pattern, if every murder seems truly random, then it could be you who will be next. But "rationality" can have its terrors. What if that killer is only after brunettes named Carolyn? Stalin had the very rational goal (according to Communist dogma) of forcibly collectivizing all farmland in the Soviet Union. He was effective—all the land was collectivized—and to do it he murdered some thirty million small farmers who did not want to go along.

But are the Forsaken ineffective or irrational? Are they any more divided than any other group plotting to take over a country, a world, IBM? True, they plot to secure power for themselves. But I give you Stalin v. Trotsky and the entire history of the Soviet Union. I give you Thomas Jefferson v. Alexander Hamilton v. John Adams, and we will ignore such things as Jefferson's hounding of Aaron Burr (he tore up the Constitution to do it; double jeopardy, habeas corpus, the whole nine yards), or Horatio Gates' attempted military coup against Washington, with the support of a fair amount of the Continental Congress. We can also ignore Secretary of War Stanton's attempts to undermine Lincoln throughout the Civil War, the New England states' attempt to make a separate peace with England during the Revolution and their continued trading with the enemy (the British again) during the War of 1812, and... The list could go on forever, frankly, and take in every country. Human nature is to seize personal advantage, and when the situation is the one the Forsaken face (namely that one of them will be given the rule of the entire earth while the others are forever subordinate), they are going to maneuver and backstab like crazy. You yourself say "If ever there was the possibility that some alien force was going to invade this planet, half the countries would refuse to admit the problem, the other half would be fighting each other to figure out who will lead the countries into battle, etc." Even events like Rahvin or Sammael or Be'lal seizing a nation have a basis. What better way to hand over large chunks of land and people to the Dark One than to be ruler of those lands and people? The thing is that they are human. But aside from that, are you sure that you know what they are up to? All of them? Are you sure you know what the Dark One's own plans are? Now let's see about Rand and his dangers and his allies. Have you been skimming, my dear? What makes you think the Tairens, Cairhienin and Andorans are solidly behind him? They're plotting and scheming as hard as the Forsaken. Rand is the Dragon Reborn, but this is my country, and we don't need anybody, and so on. And then there are those who don't think he is the Dragon Reborn at all, just a puppet of Tar Valon. Most of the Aiel may be behind him, but the Shaido are still around, and the bleakness is still taking its toll, since not all Aiel can face up to what Rand has told them about themselves. What makes you think the Seanchan will fall in behind Rand? Have you seen any Seanchan volunteers showing up? Carolyn, half of these people are denying there is a problem, and half are trying to be big honcho themselves. Read again, Carolyn. The world Rand lives in is getting more frenzied and turbulent. Damned few are saying, "Lead, because you know best." A good many who are following are saying "Lead, because I'd rather follow you than have you call down lightning and burn me to a crisp!"

As for lack of challenge, I refer you again to the question about whether you really think you know what all the Forsaken are planning. Or what Padan Fain is up to. There is a flaw inherent in fiction, one that is overcome by suspension of disbelief. We do always know, somewhere in the back of our heads, that the hero is going to make it through as far as he needs to. After all, if Frodo buys the farm, the story is over, kids. The excitement comes in trying to figure out how he can possibly wiggle out, how he can possibly triumph.

In Rand's case, let's see what he still has stacked against him. The Cairhienin and Tairens are for the most part reluctant allies, and in many cases not even that. At the end of Fires, he has Caemlyn, but I don't see any Andoran nobles crowding around to hail him. Illian still belongs to Sammael. Pedron Niall is working to convince people Rand is a false Dragon, and the Prophet is alienating ten people for every one he convinces. Tarabon and Arad Doman are unholy messes; even if Rand manages to get in touch with all of the Dragonsworn—who are not organized beyond individual bands—he has two humongous civil wars to deal with. True, he can use the Aiel to suppress those, but he has to avoid men killing men too much; there are Trollocs waiting to spill out of the Blight eventually. We must always remember the Trollocs, Myrddraal etc; the last time they came out in force, it took over 300 years to beat them back, and the Last Battle doesn't give Rand anywhere near that. Altara and Murandy are so divided in any case that simply getting the king or queen on his side isn't going to work; remember that most people in those two countries give loyalty to a city or a local lord and only toss in their country as an afterthought. Davram Bashere thinks Tenobia will bring Saldaea to Rand, and that is possible since the Borderlands would be one place where everyone is aware of the Last Battle and the Prophecies, but even Bashere isn't willing to make any promises, not even for Saldaea much less the other Borderlands, and I haven't seen any Borderland rulers showing up to hand Rand the keys to the kingdom. Padan Fain is out there, able to feel Rand, and hating him because of what was done to him, Fain, to make him able to find Rand. The surviving Forsaken are out there and except for Sammael, nobody knows what they are up to or where they can be found. For that matter, who knows everything that Sammael is up to? Elaida, in the White Tower, thinks Rand has to be tightly controlled. The Salidar Aes Sedai are not simply ready to fall in and kiss his boots, either. Aes Sedai have been manipulating the world for more than three thousand years, guiding it, making sure it remembers the Dark One and Tarmon Gai'don as real threats, doing their best, as they see it, to prepare the world for the Dark One breaking free. Are they likely to simply step aside and hand over control to a farmboy, even if he is the Dragon Reborn? Even after Moiraine decided he had to be given his head, Siuan was reluctant, and Siuan was in Moiraine's little conspiracy from the beginning. And the Seanchan...The last we saw of their forces, they were commanded by a Darkfriend. As for the Sea Folk, do you know what their prophecy says about the Coramoor? Do you think working with them it will be any simpler than dealing with the Aiel, say?

Now, what and who does Rand have solidly in his camp? Perrin knows what is needed, but he's hardly happy about it. What he really wants is to settle down with Faile and be a blacksmith; everything else is a reluctant duty. Mat blew the Horn of Valere, but it's hidden in the Tower, and frankly, if he could figure some way to go away and spend the rest of his life carousing and chasing women, he would. He'll do what he has to do, but Light he doesn't want to. The Aiel are for Rand (less the Shaido, still a formidable force), but the Dragon Reborn and the Last Battle are no part of the Prophecy of Rhuidean. That is all wetlander stuff. Besides which, they are still suffering losses from bleakness, people throwing down their spears and leaving, people defecting to the Shaido or drifting back to the Waste because what Rand told them of their origins can't possibly be true and if it isn't then he can't be the Car'a'carn. Rand has declared an amnesty for men who can channel and is trying to gather them in; they, at least, should give their loyalty to him. But how many can he find? How much can he teach them in the time he has? How many will go mad before the Last Battle? There is still the taint on saidin, remember. For that matter, can Rand hang onto his own sanity? What effect will having a madman inside his head have? Can he stop Lews Therin from taking him over?

I know that was supposed to be a listing of what Rand has in his favor, but the fact is that he is walking the razor's edge, barely hanging onto his sanity and growing more paranoid all the time, barely hanging onto putative allies, most of whom would just as soon see him go away in the hope that then everything would be the way it was before he showed up, confronted by enemies on every side. In short he has challenges enough for ten men. I've had people write to say they can't see how Rand is going to untangle all of this and get humanity ready to face the Last Battle. What I say is, what you believe to be true is not always true. What you think is going to happen is not always going to happen. That has been demonstrated time and again in The Wheel of Time. You could call those two statements one of the themes of the books.

BRANDON SANDERSON

BRANDON SANDERSON

BRANDON SANDERSON

TEREZ

TEREZ

TEREZ

TEREZ

TEREZ

TEREZ

TEREZ

BRANDON SANDERSON (11 August)

BRANDON SANDERSON

AUSTIN MOORE

BRANDON SANDERSON

Isabel

BRANDON SANDERSON (12 August)

Question

Robert Jordan

Question

Robert Jordan

Question

Robert Jordan

I was fortunate enough to attend the Robert Jordan book signing at the Barnes and Noble in San Jose near where I live in California, and I figured everyone might be interested to hear what it was like.

RJ was scheduled to appear at 7pm, so, my (much more dedicated friend who drove seven hours from LA) went down to get in line around 3pm. Shortly after he arrived, he called to warn me, "The guy next to me says that last year, the line wrapped around the building!" So, I took the afternoon off work and headed down to ye olde book store.

I got there around 4, and about seven people were in line. Surprisingly, only three of us had read Winter's Heart, so we went off into the onsite coffee shop, and had a few hours of hard core Jordan discussion. We went back and forth on a lot of the issues in Winter's Heart: Demandred (we really wanted to be convinced that the evidence was inconclusive—IMHO, RJ is a huge, deceptive tease otherwise), the possibilities for Slayer as Asmodean's killer (Sure, he really looks like it now—but did we really have enough evidence to guess it was him pre-Lord of Chaos?), whether Sammael is alive, whether he's directing the slayer, if Moridin was just sending the Forsaken off to "pay the butcher's bill" rather than actually stopping Rand, if Olver was Gaidal (this never dies!), and if a Well explained Verin's delving in the stedding.

Naturally, all this rampant Jordanism led into what questions we would ask Jordan. I had brought a notebook, and wrote down a few of my favorites:

—How many more of your books will feature nude women slapping each other? Is there any possibility they will be illustrated?

—Is it now crystal clear who Asmodean's killer is? [I know what poor luck Asmodean questions have—but I figured a quasi-indirect one might get by.]

—What can you tell us specifically about the compulsion used by Aes Sedai in the Warder bond? What effect, if any, does channeling have on preventing this? Is it sufficient to just be holding saidar/saidin to avoid this effect?

—Is Machin Shin a result of the Dark One's taint on saidin being used in the creation of the Ways, or a result of some portion of the corruption of Shadar Logoth creeping into the Ways via the Waygate there? Or is it something completely orthogonal to both these powers, merely being a parasite that showed up once the place began to grow dim?

—Were The Path of Daggers and Winter's Heart originally meant to be one book? Why was the book jacket changed?

—What does the title Dragon mean, historically speaking? Was there some deeper significance to Lews Therin Telamon being named that, or was it because dragons have always been historically badasses?

—What happens to an Aes Sedai's Warder bond if she enters a stedding? Can she still detect it? What if I tie off a weave, and enter a stedding? If the weave vanishes, will it reappear when I leave? If it won't reappear, why can't shielded/tied channelers such as Asmodean or Liandrin simply enter a stedding to have their shield dissolved?

So, naturally, my friend and I didn't have time to ask all these questions, but it was quite an event.

Aan'allein

GONZO THE GREAT

The first question was if Jordan intended to kill Sammael at the end of A Crown of Swords or if he decided later on that the character was no longer needed and was in fact dead.

Jordan responded that Sammael was dead as of the end of A Crown of Swords. Jordan felt that the character was a "louse" and didn't deserve a dramatic death a la Rahvin or Be'lal. He deserved a very vague death and was killed by something that he didn't pay attention to.

Tallis

Diomedes

Robert Jordan

Diomedes

MAFO—Maria and find out. This means he will answer the question, but he wants to check with Maria first to make sure he has the details straight.

Maria Simons (via Luckers)

No, Sammael was not paged. Sammael had sent Carridin to Ebou Dar to find the cache of Power goodies. The notes say that Sammael became aware that there were other parties engaged in the same search, and decided that he had to light a fire under Carridin. Also note Sammael’s reaction to the news that Mat is in Ebou Dar—"'Here?" Oddly, for a moment, Sammael seemed taken aback". It seems to accentuate that Sammael is surprised; if he had been paged, it seems that his answer would have been different.

Yes, but I'm not going to tell you what.

This led to a fair amount of discussion about balefire and such. At one point, Brandon said 'all Forsaken other than Sammael who haven't come back were balefired'.

I immediately jumped on this and asked if that included Asmodean—Brandon said that he wasn't talking about Asmodean (we all didn't even want to go there), but this is further evidence of Brandon slipping hints that Asmodean was balefired.

This led to a small debate about Osan'gar—I didn't think he was balefired, everyone else at the table thought he was.

Haven't heard yet from Maria on this one, so it is still a MAFO (Maria and find out).

MARIA SIMONS (VIA LUCKERS)

No, Sammael was not paged. Sammael had sent Carridin to Ebou Dar to find the cache of Power goodies. The notes say that Sammael became aware that there were other parties engaged in the same search, and decided that he had to light a fire under Carridin. Also note Sammael’s reaction to the news that Mat is in Ebou Dar—“‘Here?” Oddly, for a moment, Sammael seemed taken aback”. It seems to accentuate that Sammael is surprised; if he had been paged, it seems that his answer would have been different.

(General summarization of the attack on Rand) Moridin is speaking to the Chosen. He’s kind of pissed. He’s saying look somebody, it was either Sammael or someone pretending to be Sammael, but it was definitely one of the Chosen. Is Moridin’s assumption/belief correct, that the only way for that to have occurred was for one of the Chosen to be involved?

Someone very high up would have to have been involved.

Matt Hatch

Brandon Sanderson

Matt Hatch

Brandon Sanderson

Matt Hatch

Brandon Sanderson

Matt Hatch

(Sorry Terez—made up these questions on the fly, so they weren’t very good, but it’s something to chew on. Next.)

Um...I have to have the list in front of me for that one.

Terez

Ahh.

Brandon Sanderson

Sorry, Terez.

Terez

That's okay.

Brandon Sanderson

I really want to just post that for people, because so many people ask about it...

Terez

Right, they're like really obsessed with it at rafo.com....

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, they're very obsessed with it, and the thing is, a lot of them are really close, and so it's a matter of a few points on Jim's scale...

Terez

Yeah, I figured, like what you were saying earlier about how they were Chosen because their talents...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Terez

...obviously they're all within...

Brandon Sanderson

...yeah. They're all awesome. And so, you know, you couldn't be a Forsaken simply for being awesome in the Power. It's like you had to be awesome at the Power, and be awesome at other stuff.

Terez

Well, I mean...that's what they said about Balthamel, that that was the only reason he was one of them, was that he was so strong...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah....

Terez

But, you know, obviously there was something else going on there...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. [I think he was already looking at the next (last) question at this point because we were nearing the airport terminal.]

I believe, but am not taking the time to look it up, she used means more mundane than you're probably expecting.

BRANDON SANDERSON

KRISHNAN

BRANDON SANDERSON

TEREZ

KRISHNAN (19 NOVEMBER)

KRISHNAN

TEREZ

LINDA TAGLIERI

TEREZ

Brandon then said (quite excitingly IMO) that it actually went further than that, and if perhaps Rand had died whether someone else would have taken over that role.

ZOMBIE SAMMAEL

If that had happened, would that person be called Dragon?

BRANDON SANDERSON

I'll give you this: there was no chance of Demandred ever being Dragon.

ZOMBIE SAMMAEL

Ah, that's a bit similar to the answer you gave before. But if not Demandred, somebody else?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Maybe.

Matt Peck

Mkay.

MARK

Will we ever find out whose voice it was at the end of The Eye of the World?

MARIA SIMONS

[pause] [in a sing-song voice] RAFO! (ray-foe)

JENNIFER LIANG

Yeah, that's a RAFO. (raffo)

MARIA SIMONS

Score!

MARK

I figured, but I had to ask.

MARIA SIMONS

I wondered how long it would take.

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Maria and I have spent some time trying to figure out different ways to say 'read and find out', so we're going to be trying out some of them today, and we'll see how it goes.

VIRGINIA

Oh, great.

SPENCER POWELL

Oh, this will be fun. Let me see if I can get you another trial run here. Um...Asmodean? [laughter]

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Who's he?

MARIA SIMONS

Yeah. Who's that guy?

VIRGINIA

He's toast, that's who he is.

SPENCER POWELL

No, Sammael's toast.

ANDREW GELOS

Yeah, I was going to say.

VIRGINIA

Well, I think he is too.

MARIA SIMONS

Um, if anybody sees the back of my car, they will see that I killed Asmodean. That's all I'm gonna say. [laughter]

MARK

I thought it was Bela!

JENNIFER LIANG

I do like the 'Bela killed him' theory. That one is just insane enough to be true.

MARIA SIMONS

I like that Bela is the Neigh'blis. [laughter]

VIRGINIA

Yeah.

JENNIFER LIANG

Terrible puns are always a good thing.

VIRGINIA

I love it.

MARIA SIMONS

And the master of the terrible pun is on this call.

VIRGINIA

Ahh.

MARIA SIMONS

In Jim's office.

JENNIFER LIANG

Ahhhh.

VIRGINIA

Well feel free. [laugher]

ALAN ROMANCZUK

I am, I am.

VIRGINIA

Pun away. Well, we've got two...you pronounce it 'raffo', right? Not 'rayfo'?

MARIA SIMONS

I say 'rayfo'. I don't know that there's a real pronunciation for that one.

ALAN ROMANCZUK

She says 'raffo', I say 'rayfo', so let's call the whole thing off.

VIRGINIA

Yeah, well we got two right off the bat. I don't know what else we're going to....well, probably everything.

Okay. Well…I guess we'll just go into the pronunciations.

SPENCER POWELL

Well, our next little bit needs a little bit of a lead-in for our listeners who don't have access to our huge list of questions like we do. As part of our interview questions, we have a list of words, and we asked, "How do you pronounce each of these words?" And there are about 43 of them. There are probably some on here that don't need to be on here, and I know that there aren't some on here that should be, but these are the 43 that we came up with.

VIRGINIA

Yeah, Spencer got mad at me because I went and annotated the list, like…I gotta be exact, and he's like "No…"

SPENCER POWELL

I didn't get mad at you! I just took 'em off; I'm like, "Oh yeah, you're right; take that one off." Anyway. And so Maria, Alan…would you please go through the list and tell us how to pronounce these names and places?

Okay, here we go. And I may, you know, be wrong on some. But others, I'm pretty sure of.

VIRGINIA

And feel free to add some in if something occurs to you as you're going.

MARIA SIMONS

O-kay. We have add-uh-LAY-us. (Adeleas) el-FINN. (Aelfinn) eyes-DEYE-shar. (Aesdaishar) (RJ used EYE to rhyme with the word 'eye') ahm-uh-DEE-see-uh. (Amadicia) [glossary: ah-mah-DEE-see-ah] (ah=ahhh sound, uh=schwa) ERR-id doe-MAHN. (Arad Doman) [glossary: AH-rad do-MAHN] arr-uh-FELL. (Arafel) [glossary: AH-rah-fehl] brr-GEE-tuh. (Birgitte) (hard G) [glossary: ber-GEET-teh] Brenn. (Bryne) [glossary: BRIHN, GAH-rehth] KEYE-ree-enn. (Cairhien) [glossary: KEYE-ree-EHN] CHA fah-EEL. (Cha Faile) (mid ch) drag-car. (Draghkar) [glossary: DRAGH-kahr] EEL-finn. (Eelfinn) guh-LAHD. (Galad) [glossary: gah-LAHD] GAH-win. (Gawyn) [glossary: GAH-wihn] GALE-donn. (Ghealdan) [glossary: GHEL-dahn] I'm not sure if it's huh-REEN or huh-REEN-uh. (Harine) din toe-GAHR-uh Two Winds. ILL-ee-in. (Illian) [glossary: IHL-lee-ahn] ill-ee-AY-nuh. (? - AY is long A) CAN-door. (Kandor) (door like the word) lee-AH-nuh. (Leane) [glossary: lee-AHN-eh shah-REEF] mall-KEER. (Malkier) [glossary: mahl-KEER] my-EEN. (Mayene) [glossary: may-EHN] myur-an-DEE. (Murandy) [glossary: MEW-ran-dee] MEER-drahl. (Myrddraal) [glossary: MUHRD-draal] NEIGH-bliss. Sorry. NAY-bliss. [laughter] (Nae'blis) NEFF. (Naeff?) nee-AHM Passes (Niamh Passes) nigh-NEEV. (Nynaeve) [glossary: NIGH-neev al-MEER-ah] Plains of mah-REE-doh. (Plains of Maredo) ree-AH-nuh. (Reanne) seye-DAR. (saidar). [glossary: sah-ih-DAHR] seye-DEEN. (saidin) [glossary: sah-ih-DEEN] sall-DAY-uh. (Saldaea) [glossary: sahl-DAY-ee-ya] see-AEN. (Seaine?) Alan…

ALAN ROMANCZUK

SHE-nar.

MARIA SIMONS

SHE-nar. (Shienar) [glossary: shy-NAHR] Swan. (Siuan) [glossary: SWAHN SAHN-chay] sor-uh-LEE-uh. (Sorilea) [glossary: soh-rih-LEE-ah] terra-BONN. (Tarabon) [glossary: TAH-rah-BON] TAR-win's Gap. (Tarwin's Gap) tell-uh-RON-ree-odd. (Tel'aran'rhiod) [glossary: tel-AYE-rahn-rhee-ODD] Tower of genn-JEYE. (Ghenjei) (hard G) truh-MALL-king. (Tremalking) [glossary: treh-MAL-king] too-AH-thuh-AHN. (Tuatha'an) [glossary: too-AH-thah-AHN]

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Do you want to go over the saidar/saidin thing we talked about?

MARIA SIMONS

In the glossaries of the books, Jim has it sah-ih-DEEN and sah-ih-DAHR, but I swear, I don't think he pronounced it that way; I mean you kind of give a little hint of the i but not much: sah-ee-DEEN, sah-ee-DAHR.

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Yeah, he always seemed to be saying seye-DEEN and seye-DAHR.

SPENCER POWELL

I'm surprised at how many of those I thought I knew, but I didn't.

JENNIFER LIANG

Yeah. That's like, "Waait a second, that's not…but oh, I guess it is."

MARK

How do you pronounce the Traveling people again?

MARIA SIMONS

too-AH-thah-AHN.

VIRGINIA

There's something else with the double A there…

MARIA SIMONS

ah-tha-AHN mee-AIR. (Atha'an Miere)

VIRGINIA

Okay, great. Any others you can think of that are commonly mangled, that would have driven Jim crazy?

MARIA SIMONS

I think I've mentioned tah-EEM before, and egg-ee-AH-nin…

VIRGINIA

dee-MAN-dred? dee-MAHN-dred? DEE-man-dred?

MARIA SIMONS

Ehh...dee-MAHN-dred, I think…but I wouldn't swear dee-MAHN-dred. [glossary: DEE-man-drehd]

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Pretty straightforward.

VIRGINIA

How about all of the Forsaken? A lot of them often get mangled, or a few. GRIN-doll?

MARIA SIMONS

Grindle, is how I say it. [glossary: GREHN-dahl] And it's interesting, just looking at a thing, and I pronounce CADD-in-soar (cadin'sor) wrong. [glossary: KAH-dihn-sohr]

JENNIFER LIANG

Oh really?

MARIA SIMONS

Yeah, because it's supposed to be cah-DIN-soar. [It's not, according to the glossary.]

JENNIFER LIANG

Okay, because I say it the way you say it.

VIRGINIA

Yeah, I think… [inaudible] so that makes sense.

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Oh! ish-AH-may-el, and SAM-may-el. [glossary: ih-SHAH-may-EHL, SAHM-may-EHL] [When RJ said it, the 'may' part was more like the German 'Mai'.]

JENNIFER LIANG

Yes. Those are really common mistakes; I hear that a lot.

VIRGINIA

Ben [?] was right; we had that famous tagline from the original podcast, and we had this thing…I think, "Sammael was pretty buff!" [laughter] We used that a lot, and it sort of went away when he did, I guess.

SPENCER POWELL

Another one that I have lots of problems with—and I can't believe I didn't get it on the list—but is the GOLL-um (gholam), or the…I can't even pronounce it right now.

MARK

GO-lem?

SPENCER POWELL

Yeah, the GO-lem, that's chasing Mat.

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Yeah.

MARIA SIMONS

Gollum.

SPENCER POWELL

Gollum?

VIRGINIA

Oh, it's Gollum! [crosstalk]

MARIA SIMONS

I am not absolutely sure, but that's how I say it, so…

VIRGINIA

What about some of the other Seanchan beasts that made me think of, the grolm, then there were two of the others that…

MARIA SIMONS

ROCK-in (raken), and TOE-rock-in. (to'raken)

VIRGINIA

Yeah, and then there was another one, the um…

MARIA SIMONS

Torm…the book is right in front of me…

VIRGINIA

Oh, maybe it was the name of that…oh, Suroth's pet!

MARK

S'redit?

MARIA SIMONS

Oh yes, that thing. I can't remember… [crosstalk]

VIRGINIA

Mandra…Mandragal?…Almandragal.

ALAN ROMANCZUK

The LOW-par (lopar)?

VIRGINIA

Yeah, the lopar. Almandaragal was his name, or something like that?

MARIA SIMONS

Something like that. I would have to look it up.

ALAN ROMANCZUK

It was a LOW-par (lopar), wasn't it?

VIRGINIA

Yeah, lopar. I think there was another one that I couldn't…maybe I'm just hallucinating. [laughs]

MARIA SIMONS

Let's see…

VIRGINIA

I'm sure there's a zillion others I'll think of after you're off the air here with us…

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Oh, s'RED-dit (s'redit) is another one. Remember the elephant-like creature?

MARIA SIMONS

Corlm, C-O-R-L-M (I like that word). Torm…that's all I can find.

VIRGINIA

What about Tuon's new name as Empress?

MARIA SIMONS

for-too-OH-nah?

VIRGINIA

Fortuona, okay. I'm not sure how else you could pronounce that, but I've been wrong before, so...

MARIA SIMONS

That, I'm assuming is right; I'm pretty sure I heard Jim pronounce it that way, because that was his choice of name.

VIRGINIA

There must be something else; there seems like a million things, and that I didn't add enough to the list.

MARIA SIMONS

OH-geer…

ALAN ROMANCZUK

moe-TIE? (???)

VIRGINIA

Oh! What about—speaking of historical figures—LAH-tra…poe-SAI? Or poe-SAY? deh-KYU-meh? (Latra Posae Decume)

ALAN ROMANCZUK

Oh yeah, LA-tra (LA rhymes with laugh)…

VIRGINIA

I got the Latra, but I'm not sure about the second and third names.

MARIA SIMONS

Boy.

VIRGINIA

It's P-O-S-A-E, and then D-E-C-U-M-E.

MARIA SIMONS

po-SAY-uh deh-COO-may.

VIRGINIA

deh-COO-may, okay. [crosstalk]

MARIA SIMONS

That's totally off the top of my head. I see it (?) and think it, anyway. po-SAY-uh deh-COO-may, yeah.

I’m fairly sure he was lying. As in, I’ve seen something in the notes at one point, and I’m pretty sure it was... but my memory being what it is, I will say you can MAFO that. But I’m pretty sure he was lying.

Maria Simons

Sammael was lying in an attempt to manipulate Graendal.

I'm assuming research; I don't know.

Terez

My theory was always eavesdropping.

Maria Simons

Oh yeah, that's another good possibility.

Terez

And that would be a reason why she tipped Sammael off to her presence.

Maria Simons

Yeah.

Terez

How did she rediscover balefire? Assuming research again?

Maria Simons

Assuming.

Marie Curie

That question always comes up, about whether you can learn a weave by reading about it.

Maria Simons

Yeah, I think it can help, and then you have to experiment and hope for the best.

That was A Crown of Swords right?

Terez

It was in the epilogue of Lord of Chaos. They found out about it in A Crown of Swords. And it was the gholam. So it had to be—

Maria Simons

Sammael, yeah. That was Sammael.

Terez

Do you know the reason?

Maria Simons

Because he somehow learned that Fel was helping Rand and didn't want the information...?

Terez

A friend of mine has a theory; he believed that Herid Fel was Asmodean in disguise, because he didn't believe Asmodean was dead.

Maria Simons

That's a good theory! I like that theory.

Terez

I like it too! Because it would explain a lot... (including why a gholam was sent to kill a non-channeler)

Maria Simons

Yeah.