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and, Perrin, Rand and a whole lot of Geography.

by Fade: 2003-04-15 | Not yet rated

Previous Categories: What's Next?

We all know that Rand will be going to meet with "tDotNM" in Ebou Dar and probably be captured. we also know that Mat has just recently left Ebou Dar and is heading north on the Great North road to Lugard.

Now comes the conjecture. Perrin, during WH and CoT has been running around all over altara and that area. the key to discovering where Perrin is is to find out where the city of Malden is.

There are three things from chapter eight of CoT that can help resolve both issues. One comes from Sulin's confusion about why the city was not built closer to the water in the lake, and the other two come from Perrin's description of Malden: “It was not one of the great cities, not like Caemlyn, or Tar Valon...but still a city with high walls and towers and what looked like a fortress at the northernmost end...There seemed to be a road leading roughly south through the farms and another roughly north.” The first important aspect of this quote is that Perrin thinks of Malden as a city. A little later on he considers So Habor, with four or five thousand people in it, a town. Now why would there be a city, even a small city, in the backcountry of northern Altara, built where obtaining water depends on an elaborate engineering project? The last sentence of the quote provides the key information: Malden is a trading center on the Great North road that connects Ebou Dar to Lugard in Murandy! this tells us what road it is on, now we must decide where along the road it is.

“East and south [the wind blew], around the southern reaches of the Mountains of Mist, swirling across high walled Amador...East the wind howled over a desolated land...East, until the wind moaned a dirge over unwalled Abila.” If this is combined with Balwer's statement to Perrin in chapter nine of TPoD that Abila is about forty leagues south of Bethel, a southern Ghealdan town, Abila can be generally placed on a line east of Amador, not too distant from the River Eldar.

Perrin leaves Abila and Travels 40 Miles south. this is very far off and has to retrace his steps. he eventually has to come back to near abila and go east. In chapter 5 we learn that Perrin crossed the Eldar into Altara.

in chapter nine an argument occurs between Therava and Sevanna, because Therava wants the Shaido to move to some mountains east of Malden, and Sevanna scoffs because they are “days or weeks” away. The Hills of Kintara are the only geographical feature on the map that they could be referring to, and this further helps to zero in on Malden. All of this disparate information provides a rough idea of Malden's location, and a reasonable guess might be 150 miles east of the Eldar, roughly in line with Salidar.

Now that we know Mat and Perrin are close to each other, and we can assume that Rand will be taken prisoner, we can also assume that Mat and Perrin will team up for the first time since TSR to help save Rand.
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2003-04-21

I ended the book thinking something similar, however, I never worked out all of the details that would make it geographically likely that Mat and Perrin would hook up. It will happen...it better happen, maybe Mat's luck will get Faile back. That would be a good theory...isn't Faile compared to a Raven sometimes? Maybe that was another bird...I can't remember :) But I am sure someone will straighten me out. I don't agree that they will team up to help Rand. Instead, they will get messed up in a huge battle. Is there any possibility that a large contingent of Seanchan are in the area to make it even bigger?

2

Dorindha: 2003-04-21

I can only recall Faile being compared to a falcon (hence her name), but I agree that Mat and Perrin need to meet up sometime soon - they've not seen each other for so long, to help each other, Rand and reduce the ever-increasing numbers of plotlines!

I think Perrin needs some help if he's going to rescue Faile soon, and if Rand does get kidnapped, this might be the second time that he needs Perrin around if he doesn't want to die (the first being Dumai's wells). The three of them all rely on each other for survival, even if they won't admit it, which the colours that they see when they think about the others has been trying to tell them.

3

Anubis: 2003-04-21

hmm, mat is going to ebou dar... maybe perrin will use the seanchan to get falie back but then have to go to ebu dar because of taveren ness or being ruler of manatheren or being close to the dragon reborn.

4

A Wild One: 2003-04-21

Fade, who is Diomedes ?

This is a well researched theory.

5

Callandor: 2003-04-21

Anubis, I dont think that Mat is going back to Ebou Dar at all, unless of course he WANTS to walk back into a gholam, Seekers, Suroth, and any Joe Random Seanchan who doesnt think lightly on him.

Mat is still with Tuon heading steadily north with Lucas show. The letter from Suroth to Rand is obviously a fraud to make sure they can bind the Dragon to the Crystal Throne.

Ive been thinking along the same lines as this theory since the end of COT along with Tam. And I dont think there would be any other scene where Perrin could save Rand from channelers sooner then now.

6

Highbreaker: 2003-04-22

Hey, I really like all that detective work you did there, pretty cool...

Umm... Just based on what I remember, I don't see why Matt would go back to Ebou Dar at all... I mean CoT was really boring and I pretty much forgot it as soon as I read it... Right now I have to agree Callandor. Can someone please explain to me why he would go back at all? thanks, sorry for my stupid question :)

7

Weird Harold: 2003-04-22

Highbreaker asked, "Can someone please explain to me why he would go back at all?"

One reason might be that a da'covale goes where his owner tells him to.

Another is that he thinks that he can let her go now, but he can't let her go -- lovesick puppies tend to do things they don't wouldn't otherwise do "for love".

Banner General Karede, a hundred Deathwatch Guards, and Tuon's six damane are all in the general vicinity looking for Tuon -- they might have something to do with him returning to Ebou Dar as well.

There are a lot of reasons why he might go back to Ebou Dar, but not really all tht many why he would go onward to Lugard.

8

Fade: 2003-04-22

To answer the question of why would Mat go back to Ebou Dar, i need to assume that the seanchan dont know that Traveling has been rediscovered.

When Suroth told Bashere that Rand must come back to Ebou Dar and talk to tDotNM she must have been asuming that it would take a rather long amount of time for that message to get to rand and then more time for him to react and return to Ebou Dar. Suroth would need this time, because she a) has someone close to Mat and Tuon who will bring her back to Ebou Dar, ar b) will send out more trrops to find her and bring her back.

to bring this all into perspective, Mat is beginning to fall for Tuon, and if she is captured and taken back to Ebou Dar, then he will go back to save her, if reluctantly so.

9

Highbreaker: 2003-04-23

Hey thanks a lot. I agree, if Tuon is caught then mat will reurn. BUT, that is a big IF. Matt knows what he is about, so does Farstrider, and thom. In fact, Mat's whole party knows what they are doing, and I don't think that it is likely they will get caught if they don't want to be. If Tuon isn't caught, then there is NO way he would go back of his own volition.

10

Mairan Sedai: 2003-04-23

Rand's coming to Ebou Dar? I thought Suroth was coming to Tear... man, that screws up my whole "how Moiraine will be saved" theory. (Don't ask.)

11

: 2003-04-23

Everyone seems to be assuming that Rand will be captured by the Seanchan, and Mat and Perrin will wind up in a battle as well. I agree that Mat and Perrin seem to be on a path to meet, but I tend to think the Seanchan will become an ally. The very last part Perrin had in CoT, Tallanvor had returned to tell him about a contingent of Seanchan that could be a possible ally. Not an enemy, but an ally. Mat and Tuon, well, that all depends on Tuon, but it seems to be developing into another benevolent link to the Seanchan. As for Rand, why does everyone believe the Seanchan prohpecies? They're the most ethnocentric people around. Anath may be Semirhage, point taken, but Rand has walked unknowingly into Forsaken before. It really seems unfathomable that after all this time, Jordan is going to have the main character, the savior, get caught by the male a'dam and the nation that nobody really likes.

12

Callandor: 2003-04-23

With Anath almost certainly Semirhage and the Sad Bracelets in Suroths control, who is a known Darkfriend with a Forsaken by here if she knows it or not, however she most likely does know, and then Rand coming into their hands it seems really obvious that he wil be captured by them. The viewing of Min of Rand being hurt twice be channelers (Im not sure if it was specifically women or not but it was channelers at least), and Perrin needing to help Rand 2 times (the first being Dumais Wells), it seems too perfect a situation for it to be passed up.

There will most likely be some kind of a truce/alligence worked out between the Seanchan, but I think its going to be something more along the lines of the Aiel (the majority following Rand, the rest totally disregarding him and fighting against him).

13

Janstince: 2003-04-26

frankly, i dunno. i've been one who was thinking that Suroth and Rand are going to meet in neutral territory, or along the border, somewhere in Illian. I don't think either one is coming to the other fully.

there is also something else. Mat has a reason to be in Lugard, although he doesn't consciously know. Talmanes reported in PoD, i believe, that he could 'feel Mat tugging' at him, like Mat was in trouble and needed help. Hence, why he was not willing to follow Egwene any further than Murandy. So maybe the tugging goes both ways, or maybe it only affects other people.

Also, Murandy = no Seanchan control, which seems to be a plus in Mat's book, considering he kidnapped their princess and whatnot.

However, i do believe that Perrin and Mat are going to get together. whether that will happen before or after Faile is rescued remains to be seen. However, i do think i know one thing that's going to happen.

The Whitecloaks, or at least some of them, are going to join with Perrin. Why? Look in either LoC or aCoS. In one of those books, Min speaks of a viewing of Berelain, saying that she will fall in love with a man in white. At first, i thought Gai'shain, duh, but now i think it must be Galad. He is not only clothed in the white of a Whitecloak, but he is also one of the most pure people ever, prim and prude and truthful and blah blah blah. So maybe Berelain will go for him.

Most likely, judging from the positions laid out above, what's most likely is this.

Whitecloaks are looking for the Seanchan to fight. Seanchan are patrolling borders and trying to extend their realm. Perrin and the Shaido are caught in between them, or as good as. I think it will become a giant free-for-all, considering that Perrin now has that order from the High Lady Suroth and all. So the Seanchan join Perrin, and they attack the Shaido, and when the battle starts going wrong, the Whitecloaks come in and start laying about them, and Perrin comes out on top.

After that, I don't see how or why Mat and Perrin would have to meet because, aside from the fact that they are going in almost the same direction(towards Caemlyn and TV, i might add), but they are too far apart to meet quickly, unless Perrin gets stopped by the Band in Murandy or something.

As for going to Ebou Dar? I think even if Rand were there, they wouldn't know what the hell to do, so they'd probly leave.

Just random thoughts caused by too little sleep.

14

Dorindha: 2003-04-28

I see absolutely no reason for Mat to go to Ebou Dar - he just left with a lot of effort and all the AS he was rescuing, and I'm sure the seekers that are operating round there would want to talk to him about Tuon...

15

Sir Ffej: 2003-05-04

It is true that Mat and Perrin will have to get together to help Rand for some reason.

Some things to think about though. Yes there is a Raven mentioned in connection with perrin, but it isn't Faile, it is Tuon. Think about it, the raven is a royal symbol in Senchean.

Also why do you think that Rand will be captured?

Also Mat is with Tuon, who is the Daughter of the Nine Moons.

16

Callandor: 2003-05-04

Read all the repsonces before submitting new ones, then you wouldve seen my reply:

With Anath almost certainly Semirhage and the Sad Bracelets in Suroths control, who is a known Darkfriend with a Forsaken by here if she knows it or not, however she most likely does know, and then Rand coming into their hands it seems really obvious that he wil be captured by them. The viewing of Min of Rand being hurt twice be channelers (Im not sure if it was specifically women or not but it was channelers at least), and Perrin needing to help Rand 2 times (the first being Dumais Wells), it seems too perfect a situation for it to be passed up.

17

Elder Haman: 2003-05-05

Great Theory! I thought they were in the same area, but had never work the geography out completely.

A Few Thoughts:

1: I do think Rand is going to be captured soon- It's about time.

2: I do believe Mat and Perrin will met soon- either before or after rescuing Faile. This will also allow Tuon Hawkwing to meet Berelain Paendrag, which will be most interesting.

3: This also has relevance to how Egeanin will save Egwene- see my Theory: "Egeanin will save Egwene"- as Perrin has access to Traveling. (Also, Mat may still be thinking he has to deliver Elayne to Rand in Andor, and he may believe Elayne is with Egwene- or the other Aes Sedai may insist on traveling to the White Tower.)

18

Callandor: 2003-05-05

Wow. I couldnt help but laugh when I found this quote on finishing TGH again today. Its just when Egwene is getting freed of the adam.

TGH, Chapter 46, To Get Out of the Shadow, page 648:

***Rand would kill someone who did a thing like that,* Elayne said. She seemed to be steeling herself. *I am sure he would.***

A little foreshadowing perhaps?