oridin/Ishy Resides Within
by Bizikee: 2000-11-28 | 2 out of 10 (4 votes)
When Moridin is playing "stones"/sha'rah, p.44(PoD), he laughs madly about playing both sides of the board. The Fisher represents Rand, which Moridin/Ishy moves around as if he controls him.
But most importantly is the passage before that - "Perhaps the Fisher did come from some dim remnant of a memory of Rand al'Thor, the shadow of a shadow."
Since we know that Rand has gotten some of Lews Therin's memories, would it not all be very possible for Moridin/Ishy to have gotten some of Rand's by sitting in his head?
Besides what better way would there be for Ishy to guide Rand they take part-time residence in his mind.
This might also explain why he popped up in Shadar Logoth to help Rand from being killed by Mashadar. I don't think anyone inside someone else's head would like it much if the evil insanity of Mashadar pushed itself inside the head to join the crowd.
Besides, I think RJ is planning on getting half the world in Rand's head before Tarmon Gaidon. We got Alanna, Min, Aviendha, Elayne, Lews Therin, even in a way Perrin and Mat, why not make room for one more?
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1
Tamyrlin: 2000-11-28
Moridin...how would that have happened? I guess the taint could have an effect, but I don't think so.
2
lewstherin80: 2002-11-13
I believe that the third person in Rand's head is none other than Padan Fain. Remember he does have that link to Rand, almost like some type of bonding, and maybe Rand has enough control over himself to finally sense the bonding.
3
Callandor: 2002-12-13
Tamylin it sounds like you blame almost eerything on the taint man ;-).
4
Teth: 2003-01-21
I agree that the third is Moridin. The bit in Shadar Logoth is the first time that Rand saw the almost recongnisable face (which i believe is the third person) when his and Moridins balefire crossed.
5
dave: 2003-10-14
I also agree that it is Moridin. It would work great storywise. Ishameal/Moridin and Lews Therin/Rand have always been arch-enemies, through out the Ages. Now they'r all in one big giant head!
Umm, anyway, Moridin could have somehow bonded with Rand, much like the Warder AS bond. Rand thinks that he couldn't sense any channeling from Moridin when he uses Balefire, cause Moridin is using the True Power. Would Rand notice if Moridin used a bond or something on him? If done right, I don't think so. He also had the oppurtunity (sp?) in Shadar Logoth.
Or maybe it has something to do with the Balefires crossing (reminds me of Ghostbusters). Min says she sees Rand and another person merging, and we know it can't be Lews Therin since Rands assumes that it is, and he's allways way off. Well, right after the Balefire thing happende is the first time that Rand sees the face in his head.
The Balefire-beams touching is a paradox in itself, and I'll try too explain as good as I kind what I think of it. (crosses fingers)
Rand weaves his Balefire, weaves he gets from the OP, which he grabs from... somewhere and guides/forces through him to make it do what he wants. Moridin's Balefire touches Rands, erasing it backwards in time. Erasing the weave he made by drawing on the OP. This is what probally made him loose saidin. The weaves were burned away almost back to where they came from, the OP.
The paradox of course is that since Moridin hit his Balefire, it was erased in time, meaning it never happened. Meaning that since it never happened Moridin couldn't have hit it. If anybody understands what I'm trying to say, it's a bloody miracle.
I also belive that Rands sickness when grabbing saidin is connected with this. Since the weave was burnt backwards couldn't this somehow have worked as a half severing. If Moridins Balefire was stronger, maybe Rand would have been Gentled there on the spot?
Now, the same thing happende to Moridin at the same time, so maybe this caused a link between the two. I think this is more beliveable (sp) than the bonding scenario.
I'm really looking forward to a showdown between these two characters.
Ok, there's a lot of "if"s and "maybe"s, but I think the idea has some credability. And I've gone a little of topic and now I'm rambling, so I'll shut up now.
6
Aelfinn: 2003-12-12
***The Balefire-beams touching is a paradox in itself, and I'll try too explain as good as I kind what I think of it. (crosses fingers)
Rand weaves his Balefire, weaves he gets from the OP, which he grabs from... somewhere and guides/forces through him to make it do what he wants. Moridin's Balefire touches Rands, erasing it backwards in time. Erasing the weave he made by drawing on the OP. This is what probally made him loose saidin. The weaves were burned away almost back to where they came from, the OP.
The paradox of course is that since Moridin hit his Balefire, it was erased in time, meaning it never happened. Meaning that since it never happened Moridin couldn't have hit it. If anybody understands what I'm trying to say, it's a bloody miracle. ***
I understand what you're saying, but then I'm probably insane as well. Paradox makes perfect sense to me, just not when I try to explain it.
Ishamael/Moridin and Lews Therin/Rand? Yeah, maybe I'll go for that just because it seems so crazy RJ HAS to do that!!
However, wouldn't LTT have said "us FOUR" then? Rand, Ishy, LTT, and Moridin. OH, but Ishy is Moridin with no gap, unlike rand and LTT.
Some theory I don't think anyone's brought up yet: Maybe RJ himself doesn't know who the third person is, and is just laughing at us making fools out of ourselves trying to figure out a reason he doesn't yet know.
7
Callandor: 2003-12-13
**OH, but Ishy is Moridin with no gap, unlike rand and LTT.**
No, Moridin is Ishy reincarnated by the DO; it is Ishy's soul put into a new body to make, ta-da, Moridin. No split personallities.
**Maybe RJ himself doesn't know who the third person is, and is just laughing at us making fools out of ourselves trying to figure out a reason he doesn't yet know.**
RJ brings up a third voice and doesn't know what it is? Yeah right. RJ has hinted at events that take place in TPOD, if not in even future books, that are true, showing what detail he plans into to. Not knowing this event or action would just be extremely unlikely pushing impossible.
8
mako0424: 2003-12-13
I am so happy someone else atempted this theory, i have posted this theory twice in the worst most ludicrous places, but no i completely agree.
I think it maybe goes even further back than that. the second book when Ishy fights Rand. Rand beats Ishy by Sheathing the Sword or whatever, he leaves himself open, so Ishy stabs him, only to be destroyed by Rand. Now bear with me.
Ishy died, but through some ancient channeling connection, he was able to pass some of himself to Rand while connected. Ok, so DO reincarnates Ishy into Moridin (who may be Rand, but i am NOT sure about that, but it is interesting, and explains why Moridin never showed up to fight Rand in WH and why he saved him from Mashadar) and LTT this whole time is Ishy/Moridin. Maybe this new third guy is the real LTT. Ishy is blocking him out, also making Rand very paranoid, devoid of emotion, and slightly insane like the real Ishy. And this would explain why DO said let the Lord of Chaos rule (because we have an "inside man" excuse the euphemism).
But continuning on, the balefire crossing was symbolic of the final merger of mind, and power. I also think Cadsuana knows that men are susceptible to inner mind influence, hence the reason she suggests this and the voice goes dead silent.(which shows outside awareness). also exlains how Moridin is controlling the Fisher and putting him where he wants the Fisher to go, without Fisher knowing. He is definitly trying the sly approach now, instead of all-out combat (after he died first time this was tried).
Also explains Alivia helping Rand/Ishy die, and Rand fakes death while Logain takes over of Dragon duties, and Black Tower leadership.
We have all heard the Dragon Three hindu gods theory too,
I cant remember the hindu gos name (Vishnu, Shiva, and Kali i think ) but listen LTT-the Creator of Dragonmount, Rand and many things, also the one who will provide Rand knowledge to beat DO, Rand-the Preserver trying to desperately cling onto life, normal things, and save everyone, Ishy/Moridin-destroyer or "death" meant to prevent Rand and destroy take over world.
My biggest hole in this pretty plausible theory, if Moridin owns the two cour-souvra and controls Moggy and Cyndane, than why doesn't Rand have it when he is Rand. Well, go ahead, tell me if i am wrong, or if anyone backs it up. just some more thoughts.
9
Callandor: 2003-12-13
**I think it maybe goes even further back than that. the second book when Ishy fights Rand. Rand beats Ishy by Sheathing the Sword or whatever, he leaves himself open, so Ishy stabs him, only to be destroyed by Rand. Now bear with me.
Ishy died, but through some ancient channeling connection, he was able to pass some of himself to Rand while connected.**
Ishy died in the third fight between Rand in TDR, not TGH, and he left a body that Mat saw; so how the heck is he a figment of Rand if he died then and was made a part of Rand in TGH?
Ishamael and Moridin are the same SOUL, Moridin is just Ishamael's soul put into a new body. Rand is a totally different person.
10
Alanna Mosvani: 2003-12-14
The three Hindu Gods are:
Brahma the creator, (= LTT)
Vishnu the preserver, (= Rand)
Shiva the destroyer. (= the third man?)
There is a theory on the Wheel of Time FAQ page that the three girls go with the three personalities: Elayne - the LTT personality, Min with Rand and Aviendha with the third. It's kind of funny to think of Aviendha and Morindin together.
11
broon7: 2004-01-03
I have always thought something along these lines myself. Although I don't agree with everything that's been said here. I do have one more interesting thought to add. If anyone remembers, Rand asked the aelfinn/eelfin (can't remember which) how he could survive Tar'mon Gaidin. The answer was "to live you must die". I think that in the last battle, Rand is going to die but through some twist that I haven't figured out yet *shrugs*, Rand's soul will go into Moridin who will already be dead, and so Rand will live in Moridin's body.
12
timmah3209: 2004-01-04
The notion that Moridin is Rand is ludicrous to me. Moridin is clearly a separate entity. The things people are saying like "somehow" "could" or "maybe" is just supposition. Unless someone can give hard evidence from the text that Rand has any physical connection with Moridin, I won't believe it. Wouldn't other people be asking Rand "hey why do you go off for a long time and not say where?" and wouldn't he reply "what do you mean, I never left." Sure Rand might be going off the deep end but I think he'd realize if he had large blanks in his memory where he went into Moridin mode. The idea of it doesn't even make any sense.
13
Anubis: 2004-01-04
perrin creator, matt preserver, rand destroyer. LTT is ruler, rand is farmer, and third is warrior.
