he damane will be unleashed
by Mairan Sedai: 2003-04-23 | Not yet rated
This is from a thing called the Dark Prophecy which may be either real prophecy or just Shadow junk. Here goes.
"The Watchers wait on Toman Head.
The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree.
Death shall sow, and summer burn, before the Great Lord comes.
Death shall reap, and bodies fail, before the Great Lord comes.
Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great Lord comes.
Now the Great Lord comes."
The seed of the Hammer refers to the Seanchan, Hawkwing's descendants, and it says the seed will slay an ancient wrong. Well, turning women into dogs (metaphorically speaking) has been going on since the a'dam was invented, and it's definitely sick, twisted, wrong, whatever other negative adjectives you want to come up with. It could be something else, but I say the obvious choice is that they will free the damane in time for TG. Think what a difference all those channelers could make. I'm not saying that this will definitely happen, but I would love to see it.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-04-26
But why would a dark prophecy make reference to something "good" happening that would help the good side defeat the Dark One? I would suggest that it is more likely that the Ancient Wrong must be something "good" that will be slayed, something that the DO would call an Ancient Wrong, but that the Light would call the Ancient Right...but I could be wrong here, other ideas anyone?
2
Jiana: 2003-04-26
Well, it could be possible, and think of this: Many of the Seanchan born damane DO NOT WANT TO BE FREED. We know that the DO loves to create chaos. Think of the chaos that would abound if ALL the damane were freed. They would all go nuts. ;)
3
Calebman: 2003-04-26
The ancient wrong, from the shadows view, is LTT sealing the bore. This is also an ancient right, from the lights point of view.
4
Callandor: 2003-04-26
I think that the **The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree** refers more to Ishamael (who sent Hawkwings sons and armies over to Seanchan) striking Rand with the rod that gave him the Never healing wound on his side. (Rand is of Aiel decent and the ancient tree is Avendesora which the Aiel charish)
But I do like the idea of the Seanchan releasing the damane and accepting a more Aes Sedai point of view, so they think of channelers better.
5
cow defender: 2003-04-26
maybe the ancient wrong is allowing channellers to run free.
6
wilder: 2003-04-26
"Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great Lord comes."
I don't have The Great Hunt here with me ( I think that's where that is from), but if the quote is indeed AGAIN the seed slays ancient wrong, then it has to be something Hawkwing or the Seanchan have killed before. It could be one of two things, depending on whether "wrong" is from an absolute point of view, or from the Shadow's point of view.
From an absolute point of view, when Hawkwing's armies first arrived in Seanchan, didn't they go on an anti-Darkfriend crusade? So, the ancient wrong could be Darkfriends.
However, if "evil" is from the Shadow's point of view, I would think it refers to Aes Sedai. Hawkwing hated Aes Sedai, and killed them while under Ishy's influence. His armies encountered Aes Sedai in Seanchan who were manuvering for their own power, and battled them. So, a Seanchan attack on Aes Sedai would qualify for the "again" part of the prophecy.
7
solomonrex: 2003-04-27
I don't think dark prophecy doesn't refer to good things just because it's dark. The prophecies cannot be based on the DO's power, right? The DO's power is chaos and outside of the power, while prophecy tells the future of the pattern based somehow on the pattern. Chaos has no pattern, so the prophesy is still based on the pattern- the actual wheel. It's just told from the viewpoint of the DO.
As for this prophecy, I think that it refers to the attack on the WT, rather than unleashing the damane. After all, 'slays ancient wrong' is indicative of violence, not freeing. And leashing the damane is less ancient than the white tower itself. From the DO's perspective, a 'wrong' would normally be good (for the DO), so this may indicate instead that the DO was wronged. It may refer to the fact that the AS failed to free him in the last age, or that LTT sealed the bore.. I can't think of any other wrong the DO would care about. But it also says, 'Again'. Which doesn't fit. Another wild card would seem to be the 'ancient tree'. Tarabon's flag has an Avendesora on it, and 'the ancient tree' probably refers to this but that doesn't sound right- not on the same level as the rest. I don't believe the tree was ever associated with the Aes Sedai, so it doesn't reinforce the idea of the Seanchan invading the WT.
For the rest: summer has already burned (seasons slowed down) and death has sowed the seeds (prepared things for war and destruction). Death was then reaped- and bodies fail? Could it refer to the So Habor ghosts? They're no longer keeping their spirits inside their dead bodies?
8
Weird Harold: 2003-04-27
"...The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree.
...
Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great Lord comes.
..."
I think you've mis-identified the "The seed of the Hammer."
Rand is the only one who has "burned the Ancient Tree" -- in his battle with Asmodean in Rhuidiean, he set fire to Avendesora.
Several books later, Rand also "slays" two ancient wrongs by pitting them against each other in Shadar Logoth -- the Taint and The evil of SL. Both were much older "wrongs" that the chaining of damane.
9
Dorindha: 2003-04-27
The symbol of Tarabon is Avendesora - I think it probably refers to that - it is simpler, than involving the real Avendesora.
In the passage it refers to "ancient wrong" not "the ancient wrong" which implies that is is a ongoing state, rather than a specific action, but I think the "slaying" of it is something that is going to happen in the future.
10
Mairan Sedai: 2003-04-27
Okay, but how is Rand the seed of the Hammer? I think the ancient tree refers to Tarabon, which the Seanchan have taken over, and as for the ancient wrong, it's probably a RAFO. If Tuon ever actually channels, maybe she'll unseal the Bore so that Rand can get in there to fight the DO. Just throwing out ideas here...
11
Weird Harold: 2003-04-27
Mairan Sedai asked, "Okay, but how is Rand the seed of the Hammer?"
I'm not sure how that Title fits with all of Rand's other titles, but he's the only one who has burned an ancient tree.
The Seanchan do indeed control Tarabon, but they've done anything BUT burn it -- they've brought peace and order to a country with a long history of strife.
It probably is RAFO, but IF the Seanchan are the "Seed of the Hammer" Then the Ancient Wrong they're avenging by hanging all of the Watchers at Toman Head and others is the failure to remain faithful to Hawkwing's vision of a united land.
12
Anubis: 2003-04-27
wasnt hawkwing the hammer? so his seed would be the seanchan. the tree is the symbol of arad domon i think. and it did get burned, both literally and metaphoricly. ancient wrong... somthing that the seanchan will slay. thats the sticker
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Jiana: 2003-04-28
I don't see how Rand could be the "seed." To me, it has to mean the Seanchan, because they are the only Seed of the Hammer that we know about, if the "prophecy" speaks in general terms. If it does not, if it is more specific, then it would have to be the Empress or Tuon. Tarabon/Arad Doman have been conquered by the Seanchan... "burn" could be a metaphor. The ancient wrong might be how the people on this side of the Aryth have forgotten to watch and await the Return, and have nearly forgotten about Hawkwing himself.
14
Mairan Sedai: 2003-04-29
And this is a dark prophecy, so it's plausible that they might use really nasty metaphorical verbs like "burn" for "conquer" and "slay" for "end." Hawkwing was the Hammer; the Seanchan (Tuon specifically) are his descendants. It all depends on what the prophet's definition of a wrong was. If it's wrong the way most people understand it, damane might be unleashed. If it's wrong the way the DO thinks about it, the Seanchan might smash the seals or leash a bunch of Aes Sedai or something like that.
15
melchizedek137: 2003-05-06
There are a couple of possibilites about the accuracy of this prophecy.
Technically, the Dark One should not be able to bestow the power of prophecy on his minions, as "evil and chaos" in generally cut off from this ability. While I do not know the precise theological rules RJ is using, my suspicion is that he would follow that little fact fairly closely.
If so, then the prophecy may be no more than a guess, something the Dark One has placed out there as propaganda, in the hopes that he can make it come true by spreading the word. Evil likes that tactic.
There is another possibility, of course. I've always kind of assumed that Myrddral are the Trolloc equivalent of wilders- If their parents were still human instead of Trolloc, they'd have been born with the ability to channel. If this is true, then this prophecy could be an example of the way the Foretelling manifests among Myrdraal. It may, in fact, have been written in the hopes that someone could get it to the Great Lord (or one of the Forsaken) to clue them in on future events.
In that case, I would say that the ancient wrong is the Aes Sedai, or something closely related to them.
Why would the ancient wrong be damane? After all, the Great Lord highly approves of Damane... I mean, Moghedien and Cydane are essentially damane of Morridin now.
16
Khaos: 2004-03-11
the seed is the Seanchan and the ancient wrong is the break up of Hawkwing's empire. Its an indication that after Falme the Seanchan will return and this time as successful conquerors
