1
Tamyrlin: 2003-10-16
The problem with your first supposition is, Lanfear didn't join the Dark One until five years after she and her team created the bore in the Dark One's prison. I don't think you can make the case that the True Power infected her. Wouldn't the Dark One just prevent the user from touching the TP, if he/she started using it to seal up the Bore? Finally, I don't think Mat and Perrin have anything to do with the actual sealing, but they do have something to do with getting Rand to the Final Battle. The question becomes, will the Dark One's prison be remade at the end of this age? Or will Rand create a similar seal without the backlash?
2
Roland00: 2003-10-16
I don't think that the reason why Lanfear is evil, is caused by the Dark One's influence. Throughout the series Lanfear is shown as a person that craves power, and that Lanfear would do anything to rise in power. When Lanfear joined the Dark One, the dark forces were starting to win the War of Power. Lanfear join the Dark One because the oppurtunity and the chance of advancement were higher than with Lews Therin.
Second, the seven seals were not the seal of the dark one's prision. Instead the seals were the focus points of the weave that sealed the prison. The seven seals were made with both saidin and saidar, but the weave that sealed the Dark One's prision was pure saidin. This is why saidin was tainted and the probable reason why the seals are corrupted.
Most likely (based of Herid Fel's comments) that the seven seals must be destroyed, before the dark one's prision is remade.
"Belief and order give strength. Have to clear rubble before you can build. Will explain when see you next. Do not bring girl. Too pretty. -Fel" (LoC p.880, ‘Thorns')"
3
DaisharMalkier: 2003-10-16
Okay, so I was wrong about Lanfear, but everything else can easily happen in the next three books, and I definitely was right about heartstone seals, and how if those weaves lose their focus, they will fall apart and Moridin channeling the TP for a long time.
4
Dragon: 2003-10-17
We know it's not a Mission impossible for Rand.
After all that mission is exactly Dragon Reborn's purpose.
He shall defeat the DO in the Last Battle and this was prophecied.
We got already references from the 4th Age, so we know that Rand will win (if he dies is another question).
In any case, concerning this I believe that Rand will rebuild the DO's prison not only reseal it, so that the people in the next Ages will forget the DO.
Either Rand's blood or more likely his or LTT's soul will be somehow necessary to achieve that.
Actually I believe that LTT will emerge from Rand, sacrifice his soul to rebuild the prison and thus save the world; Rand will survive while LTT dies.
5
Anubis: 2003-10-17
and rand will be left a soul less shell, and there will be no more dragons because the dragon only has one soul and he kinda needs that to.. ya know.. exist.
6
Dragon: 2003-10-18
Anubis,
Yeah, it is true that RJ said the Dragons (LTT & Rand) have only one soul but seperated personalities, right?
That's quite confusing, but ok...
In any case, I believe that the Dragon Reborn is special and that only he can defeat the DO in the Last Battle.
That means another great channeler couldn't defeat the DO.
There must be something unique about the DR, maybe it's his soul or blood.
Rand must spend his life in a way to win.
On the other hand we know from the Finn that Rand will survive in the end (though he must die first).
Therefore I believe that LTT will sacrifice himself and maybe a part of the Dragon soul.
Of course it's just a thought (and I'm glad that I can't definitive figure how RJ will end the series).
But I think something like that is more likely than Rand just using a "powerful spell" which could in principle any good channeler.
7
Callandor: 2003-10-18
**Rand must spend his life in a way to win.
On the other hand we know from the Finn that Rand will survive in the end (though he must die first).
Therefore I believe that LTT will sacrifice himself and maybe a part of the Dragon soul.**
You cannot sacrifice half or a part of your soul. It is one soul; you give it all or give nothing.
Rand will die in the Last Battle, that to me is a certainty. If Rand ends up living the life of a begger after the Last Battle it is just too dang stupid of an ending (lets forget even the possibility of any other kind of life, or any knowledge of Min, Avi, and Elayne, and their children to go wander around!... Sounds like the Hulk tv show).
Rand will die in the Last Battle, but his soul, the Dragon's Soul, will live on to be reborn again and again in future Ages. None of that 3 days magically healing crap that would be done by Nynaeve; no, he dies. Just get over it.
8
Dragon: 2003-10-19
Callandor,
"You cannot sacrifice half or a part of your soul. It is one soul; you give it all or give nothing."
It was an example but I wouldn't be so sure that you can't give only a part of your soul; it's after all Fantasy...
Maybe it is something different, though.
Some people think e.g. that Rand will fake his death, "die " as the Dragon Reborn and live as a common person again.
Also possible.
"Rand will die in the Last Battle, that to me is a certainty. If Rand ends up living the life of a begger after the Last Battle it is just too dang stupid of an ending (lets forget even the possibility of any other kind of life, or any knowledge of Min, Avi, and Elayne, and their children to go wander around!... Sounds like the Hulk tv show)."
Actually we get many hints that Rand will survive, as I said the Finn told it and Rand believes there is a possibility that he will live and we have a Min viewing.
I think this wouldn't be a stupid ending.
On the other hand your ending seems to me quite boring.
If indeed Rand dies in the Last Battle as all characters think since the first book, it's not very surprising.
I hope Rand (and RJ) will surprise us!
"Rand will die in the Last Battle, but his soul, the Dragon's Soul, will live on to be reborn again and again in future Ages. None of that 3 days magically healing crap that would be done by Nynaeve; no, he dies. Just get over it."
As I said I'm not so sure.
Hopefully we will read and find out in some years.
9
heronblade: 2003-10-19
you've got to remember that rand won't win as such. this is a cycle remember, he will patch the bore so it can be opened in time for the next cycle of ages. rand and this part of the pattern are not unique
10
Callandor: 2003-10-19
**Actually we get many hints that Rand will survive, as I said the Finn told it and Rand believes there is a possibility that he will live and we have a Min viewing.
I think this wouldn't be a stupid ending.**
The Finn said "If you would live, you must die." They never said "Rand, you will live. Just go give it your all."
Rand the Invincible is getting very dang boring. Rand always winning, Rand doing this perfectly, Rand surviving. It can't always be like that. Guess what? He dies! What better place and more heroic then in the Last Battle? Boring? Yeah right!
And what is the Min Viewing?
**From The Eye of the World
[TEOTW: 15, Strangers and Friends, 181]
RAND: A sword that isn't a sword, A golden crown of laurel leaves, a beggar's staff, him pouring water on sand, three woman standing over a funeral bier with him on it, A bloody hand and a white hot iron, and black rocks wet with blood.**
The Beggar's Staff? We do have more books coming out you know. Rand could VERY easily get or aquire or fulfill the viewing within that time period.
Or the Woman viewing?
**[ACOS: 35, Into the Woods, 543]
RAND: "He would almost certainly fail without a woman who was dead and gone..."**
None of those point to Rand survivng the Last Battle. Not one.
11
Korell: 2003-10-20
Lanfear drilled the bore in the AOL correct? at some point in time it must have been repaired and fully restored because otherwise she would never have been able to drill the bore she would have just been opening the DO's prison unless of course the end of the 7th age is the end of the world and the 1st age everything starts over where the creator traps the DO again in the new wheel
12
Rhodric: 2003-10-20
***None of those point to Rand survivng the Last Battle. Not one***
Callandor, u always leave out the one (and only) prophecy that suggests (to me) that rand will survive the last battle. Nicola's foretelling (2nd sentence):
"...The great battle done, but the world not done with battle...three in the boat, and he who is dead yet lives."
this is obviously a source of contention between us: i think that "he...yet lives" means that Rand is still alive after the last battle, and you interpret as Rand being "living" as a soul in TAR, which i don't buy. but both are possible.
but to say there is NO evidence to suggest that Rand will survive the last battle is a lie. there is some (one foretelling).
13
Callandor: 2003-10-21
**but to say there is NO evidence to suggest that Rand will survive the last battle is a lie. there is some (one foretelling).**
Pipe dream evidence if you want that much credit.
**TITLE: Dragon Reborn, CHAPTER: 55 - What Is Written in Prophecy
"Twice in this life I have offered you the chance to serve me living." Flames leaped in his mouth as he spoke, and every word roared like a furnace. "Twice you have refused, and wounded me. Now you will serve the Lord of the Grave in death. Die, Lews Therin Kinslayer. Die, Rand al'Thor. It is time for you to die! I take your soul!"
Ba'alzamon's blow struck him as he leapt, struck inside him, a ripping and crumpling, tearing something loose, trying to pull a part of him away. Rand screamed. He felt as if he were collapsing like an empty sack, as if he were being turned inside out. The pain in his side, the wound taken at Falme, was almost welcome, something to hang onto, a reminder of life. His hand closed convulsively. On Callandor's hilt.
He turned to face Ba'alzamon. The tearing within him had ceased as soon as his hand touched Callandor. Only an instant had passed, yet it seemed to have lasted forever. "You will not take my soul," he shouted. "This time, I mean to finish it once and for all! I mean to finish it now!"
Unseen maws gaped to rip his mind from his body, to tear away his soul. He sprang each trap and ran on; what Ba'alzamon twisted to destroy him, he made right without being aware of how. Vaguely he knew that in some way he had brought things back into natural balance, forced them into line with his own dance down that impossibly thin divide between existence and nothingness, but that knowledge was distant. All his awareness lay in the pursuit, the hunt, the death that must end it.**
The object of the entire series has been Rand al'Thor; the Dragon Reborn. More importantly The Dragon's SOUL. The Dark destroys that, the game is over; no more Dragon EVER.
The Dragon's Soul is the target; that has to survive the Last Battle. Rand gets burned to a crisp and the Light still wins, then yay the Last Battle is won and the Dragon's Soul is secure. He gets balefired or his soul taken; the game is up.
14
DaisharMalkier: 2003-10-21
Rhodric,
He who is dead yet lives; It could mean Mat, because he shuld have been dead threefold.
1. By a Darkhound who was zapped by balefire
2. By Rhavin with lightnening, but lived because Rand zappedhim with balefire
3. When Rand used CPR on him under Avendorela
15
Callandor: 2003-10-21
**He who is dead yet lives; It could mean Mat, because he shuld have been dead threefold.**
Extremely unlikely. The person who still lives is on a funeral brier surrounded by 3 women; they are very recognizably Min, Avi, and Elayne.
Way less likely that it is Mat instead of Rand in that situation.
16
Rhodric: 2003-10-22
Callandor that's a very good quote (from tDR) to support your belief. i will have to think on it.
there is also the evidence of Rand faking his own death. this is likely to happen before TG, so i suppose it supports what you say. so Nicola's foretelling could refer to this, and the "great battle" she mentions is not the Last Battle, but something else, maybe just a big campaign of trollocs but not any DO vs Dragon stuff.
i must admit it seems more probable that Rand will really die at the last battle, but to me there is more evidence that suggests he will survive it. rather, the evidence that says that he will die at TG is mostly the old prophecy, the Karaethon Cycle.
many characters muse on Rand's "prophesised death" and i've often thought that RJ was setting it up so the world thinks he is dead (as the Prophecies of the Dragon predicted) but really he does't die.
17
Dragon: 2003-10-22
Callandor,
"The Finn said "If you would live, you must die." They never said "Rand, you will live. Just go give it your all."
Rand the Invincible is getting very dang boring. Rand always winning, Rand doing this perfectly, Rand surviving. It can't always be like that. Guess what? He dies! What better place and more heroic then in the Last Battle? Boring? Yeah right!"
It seems whe have a different opinion of the term "boring"...
I think something is boring if it happens exactly that way as we already thought it will happen.
At the moment the normal reader expects that Rand will die in the way you pointed out.
Therefore it would be a twist and a surprize if Rand manages to survive. (though not really for me because I expect that Rand survives ;) )
"And what is the Min Viewing?"
Min saw that Rand and another man (LTT, Moridin or someone else?) merged into one another, one will die and one will live.
Rand could be the one who will live.
18
mako0424: 2003-12-23
ok, wow, i love the theory/fact that the seals and the heartstone are corrupted because they were designed for saidin and saidar but only saidin weaved them, and herrid fel's note about the last battle, makes alot of sense. but a big thing i thought of was Lanfear claimed T'A'R her domain, and they were experiementing, i think the Bore is in T'A'R. And here is where Rand, and Egwene, and Perrin and others will seal the Bore. While the Last Battle happens outside of the Dream world.
