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Interview: 2011
Twitter 2011 (WoT) (Verbatim)NOTE—TEREZ
This conversation starts off with some of Brandon's thoughts on the lack of female ta'veren in the story, which apparently inspired some knee-jerk posts on Twitter and Facebook about sexism in WoT. Which inspired a mild overreaction on Brandon's part, and so on, which led to a lot of discussion on semantic distinctions and the like. But it was fun. The greater (and latter) part of the conversation took place when Brandon happened to be on an airplane with a choice between reading WoT and hanging out on Twitter where some HCFFs happened to be online. [That is, people who have spent the last ten years or more (in this case) thinking about WoT more than most things, and who in this case included a gay man and a (quasi? pseudo?)-feminist.] It is, for the most part, what some might perceive to be politically biased, so I offer an apology on behalf of all of us for what might appear to be PC-ness and conservative-bashing.Brandon Sanderson (11 March 2011)
I remember the first time I heard the Egwene/Nynaeve/Elayne trio called the "Wondergirls." I'm pretty sure I was in Korea at the time.BRANDON SANDERSON
I've often gotten questions from people asking if Egwene was ta'veren. Obviously not, as Siuan would have seen the glow of it.BRANDON SANDERSON
People seem to wonder why all three boys, and not a single one of the girls, are ta'veren. I've assumed this was to confuse the Shadow.BRANDON SANDERSON
To make it difficult to track down Rand and kill him before he grew powerful, the Pattern made three ta'veren to keep everyone guessing.BRANDON SANDERSON
Of course, it can be argued that the Pattern doesn't do such things—it simply IS. Still, I've liked that as part of the explanation.JONAS MUILWIJK
Why the hell would the Wheel want to confuse the Shadow? :S The Wheel is good nor bad, so it won't choose a side.BRANDON SANDERSON
Think of it this way—yes, the Pattern simply IS. But evolution simply IS as well. And some times, species evolve to...BRANDON SANDERSON
...have many offspring in order to increase the chances of survival. Likewise, we have three ta'veren. A survival mechanism.TIM MARGHEIM
Weak analogy? If evolution==Pattern, you'd need "Evolution IS, and evolution itself has DMs." Pattern doesn't have species.BRANDON SANDERSON
Ha ha. I didn't say Evolution==the Pattern. I was showing an amoral, natural function could create something similar to three ta'veren.BRANDON SANDERSON
Man, people sure are quick to accuse RJ of sexism on my Twitter feed & Facebook. I think any who do this are blatantly wrong.BRANDON SANDERSON
It's okay to not like the books, or to think RJ did a bad job with characterizations. I disagree, but everyone's tastes are different.BRANDON SANDERSON
But he took great pains to create many strong female protagonists with a variety of strengths, and gave them their own stories.KATELYN HECKETT
I've picked up some funny male bias in the books (lots of "breasts", no male equivalent, etc.) but wouldn't say RJ's sexist.BRANDON SANDERSON
Yes, I've noticed a few of those too.BRANDON SANDERSON
Yes, there are (More than a few) sexist people in the WoT. And the culture has been influenced by the male/female interactions of the Power.BRANDON SANDERSON
However, if you look at the time devoted to female viewpoints—and the plots of those characters—the "RJ is sexist" theory erodes.BRANDON SANDERSON
Warning: Long update on this topic. As a nod to those who truly know feminist literary theory, I'll make a less "Twitter friendly" argument. Robert Jordan, by creating a world where the women and men are very aware of gender roles, spent a lot of time delving into these topics. I'm convinced he was aware of male privilege, and though biased—as all of us are—sought very hard to overcome his own biases by creating evocative female characters with plot lines that do not center around the obtaining of favor or romantic interest from male characters. He also sought to create a world where women were not defined by how they were viewed by men, but were instead defined by their intelligence, determination, and accomplishments. In this way, though he exposes some small masculine biases in various areas, he was extremely progressive as a dominant male writer of his era, and should be regarded as anything other than "sexist" for his efforts. /Scholarly BrandonBRANDON BALLENGER
Agreed. Hey, how much more "Scholarly Brandon" is online? Seen your postmodernism in fantasy essay, besides that?BRANDON SANDERSON
Not a ton. I've had to walk a fine line, as I'm not enough of a scholar to trust myself digging too deeply.BRANDON SANDERSON
I've got a Master's, so I can talk the talk—but when others spent their time in research, I spent it practicing writing.BRANDON SANDERSON
I think I have an essay or two on my website. Search for "Sanderson's First Law" and my religion essay regarding Elantris.TEREZ
I didn't read all of the conversations you had about it on Twitter and Facebook, and I didn't really have gender roles in mind so much as other things. I understand what you're saying about how his world requires certain gender imbalances—I addressed that sort of offhandedly in my post by saying that the 'in practice' roles in WoT are often not what you would theoretically expect considering the circumstances. And while RJ often made comparisons to various time periods in the real world in reference to technology in particular, I'm not talking about that—I'm talking about the theoretical result of the history of the WoT world. Many of the gender imbalances are logical, but many are not, which is why they don't feel realistic at all to many readers.
The main problem I had with your comments is that you said that anyone who accused RJ of sexism for whatever reason was 'blatantly wrong'. You sort of trivialize those things that we are 'left with' after cutting away the complex and subjective debate over gender roles, but those things we are left with are so pervasive in the novels that they give an overall impression of an old-fashioned and often casually sexist man behind the curtain. This is a big turn-off for some people, and while I feel that those who cannot overlook it are missing out on one of the greatest stories of all time, I understand that it is a legitimate complaint.
As for the female nudity...just no. :p I mean, I know you read all the interviews at one point. 'No Male Nudity' (NMN) was not quite as popular as RAFO, but it was definitely one of his favorite stock answers (especially in reference to movie questions—it was his 'one rule') for a good few years. He was pretty blatant about his preferences there, and while I'm sure he had several cultural influences in mind, in the end it's pretty clear that he just enjoyed writing about naked women more than he enjoyed writing about naked men.
I agree that it's wrong to judge RJ as a person anachronistically, but at the same time, I think it's wrong to make such a blanket statement about the veracity of our claims of sexism in WoT. It's there, and it's real. I agree that some people take the criticism too far without considering certain things—I've had these debates (on non-WoT forums especially) many times over the years—but it seems to me more constructive to criticize the exaggerations, or to criticize each argument on its own merits, than to denounce any and all claims of sexism in WoT in one fell swoop.
BRANDON SANDERSON (14 MARCH)
The "Blatantly Wrong" comment was for those who don't really know feminist theory or gender studies, and who were commenting that sexist characters and culture implied a sexist Robert Jordan. I thought better of it later, however, for the people who actually know what they're talking about. Hence the more scholarly comment directed toward people like yourself. I do not deny that there are things to talk about here. Remember, just like with the word "Racism," there are two meanings of the word "Sexist." There is the knee-jerk usage by people who intend it as an insult. And then there is the more thoughtful, careful usage by people who make a study of such things. In their hands, 'sexist' means showing one's biases and a lack of awareness of certain aspects of male privilege or gender sensitivity—using this word to describe someone is not an insult, but a description of bias. (The types of biases that we all have, and can't totally expunge—though we be aware of and try to compensate for them.) My first comment was directed at the first crowd; my second comment at the second crowd.FOOTNOTE—TEREZ
For the record, I'm hardly well-read in feminist theory. I've read far more in queer theory (and most of it since then, for unrelated reasons), and queer theory is often tied up with feminist theory, but even there I'm far from an expert, and so my familiarity with feminist theory is along the lines of a vague acquaintance. I understand the distinction Brandon is making, and it's a good one, but I don't think of it as having much to do with feminist theory.BRANDON SANDERSON (20 MARCH)
And, looks like I have Twitter on my flight again this time. So much for getting anything useful done...BRANDON SANDERSON
Re: NMN. I'll give you this point in regards to Rhuidean. No good reason for Aviendha to be nude when Rand/Mat don't have to be.BRANDON SANDERSON
As for the Aes Sedai ceremonies, they still feel very similar to sacred feminine ceremonies I've read before.TEREZ
Sure, but most of the female nudity comes in the sweat tents and baths, etc. Though the baths in Fal Dara were egalitarian.TEREZ
The descriptions of how Aviendha squats in the sweat tent, for instance, are really quite vulgar if you think about it.TEREZ
But you don't see anything like that in the bath scene at Baerlon, for example. And even ritual nudity can get vulgar...TEREZ
...like Amys at the sister-bonding ceremony in Winter's Heart. I mean, come on.JAMES POWELL
There's certainly lots o female iffy WoT nudity, but also quite a lot of male nudity—especially Rand being ogled.TEREZ
Yeah, Rand does get ogled once at least. But it's a matter of balance in my opinion.TEREZ
Greatest Cadsuane line ever: 'I’ve already seen more of your hairless bottomcheeks than I wish to...'TEREZ
'....but if you want to flaunt them in front of all six of us, perhaps someone will enjoy the show.' :)JAMES POWELL
I'm not saying that the nudity issue is balanced—clearly, it's not. But at least some effort was being made.TEREZ
Yeah, @BrandSanderson and I have gone round a bit on this already. We all recognize that some effort was made. Just saying...TEREZ
...that these things were the product of RJ's heterosexual male preferences, and therefore inherently sexist.SETH BAKER
Based largely upon the male characters being prudes. Doesn't that cut the other way for M/F sexual experience?TEREZ
Not really, since the root cause is still RJ's brain. And Mat. Is far from a prude.TEREZ
But we're at the same time not trying to make RJ out to be particularly sexist. He wasn't, especially for his Age.JAMES POWELL
*nods* I'm more saddened by the almost complete lack of gay WoT characters—but that's just my personal bias.TEREZ
No, it's not just your personal bias. It was RJ's. If there hadn't been lesbians you probably wouldn't care, eh?JAMES POWELL
I actually found the whole issue of some women being "pillow friends", but then growing out of it and mooning over men, quite off.TEREZ
Right, and the fact that the ones who don't grow out of it are for the most part evil bitches.LIRA LEIRNER
There are SOME implications of being gay being equally as normal, as outlined here http://ow.ly/4imXSTEREZ
Oh, we know. But it's a half-hearted implication. Not even close to half really...BRANDON SANDERSON
Well, at least there wasn't the "Gay=pedophile" implication that some fantasy of the era made...BRANDON SANDERSON
Of course, being Mormon, perhaps I'm not the best qualified to speak of someone's treatment of LGBT issues.LUCKERS
Are you sure the nudity doesn't play a practical role in the ter'angreal? I note that in both the...LUCKERS
...Accepted rings and the final test the woman must be nude. Strange, two separate rituals taking the same form.LIRA
And Moiraine, too. I think it's probably the rings. The other testing ter'angreal all require nakedness.LIRA LEIRNER
Aviendha doesn't have to be naked when she goes through the columns. Although I thought they could have told...LIRA LEIRNER
...them to take off their clothes once they're in Rhuidean; don't see needing to taking them off before.TEREZ
It's not a requirement of the ter'angreal according to them, but a sign of station (humbling).TEREZ
Also, with Aviendha, there was the practical aspect of giving up her cadin'sor.TEREZ
It's the same with the raisings at the Tower—they never wear those clothes again if I remember correctly.FOOTNOTE—TEREZ
I suspected I was half wrong when I posted this, and I was—the Accepted get their new dresses right after the test, but in New Spring, Moiraine and Siuan wore their Accepted dresses to swear the Oaths.BRANDON SANDERSON
I think Terez's argument is that women end up in these situations suspiciously more often than men.TEREZ
Essentially yes. And that the description is more gratuitous. RJ could have chosen to write male nudity rituals.LUCKERS
Mmm. True, but as I've argued in the past re: lack of gay men—we've been more exposed to all female...LUCKERS
...organisations and rituals. the one exception, I suppose, is the sweat tents, but again that occurred...LUCKERS
...organically. The Wise Ones were planning, and the sweat tents provided a social medium.LUCKERS
By the way, my original point was simply that Moiraine and Aviendha's nudity may have served a practical purpose...LUCKERS
...when going through the ter'angreal—Mat and Rand didn't go through that ter'angreal after all.LUCKERS
It's strange that the Aes Sedai and Wise Ones separately built nudity rituals around similar ter'angreal. Necessary?TEREZ
Organically? You say that as if the scene wrote itself. RJ chose to use female sweat tent scenes, female nudity.TEREZ
Even if the nudity does have a practical purpose that doesn't change the fact that he chose to write it that way.TEREZ
He chose to develop the female organizations, and he chose to show lesbians outside those organizations rather than men.LUCKERS
He chose to write the scene with Rand naked and being eyed by a dozen women too. So what?TEREZ
Again, it's about balance. The 'suspiciously more often' bit. I feel you are being overly defensive about it.LUCKERS
Are we to presume he did it lasciviously? To titillate? This is what I meant by it happening organically.LUCKERS
I'm not being defensive—rather I don't see the problem. The female nudity was never vulgar... it just was.TEREZ
As I said, it's clear enough he just enjoyed writing about naked women and lesbians more than he enjoyed...TEREZ
....writing about naked men and gay men. It's fanservice, but I don't think he thought of it like that.BRANDON SANDERSON
I've got to side with Terez on this one. It IS there. RJ did a LOT of things with great equality, but...BRANDON SANDERSON
...when it came to nudity, he liked showing naked women more than men. I don't think it was vulgar, though.TEREZ
Depends on your definition of vulgar. RJ was very good at avoiding vulgarity on the surface, but hinting at it.FOOTNOTE—TEREZ
I had this scene from The Fires of Heaven in mind, and it sums up many tweets I made on the subject which were omitted:
Moiraine, seeming slight and small beside the others, also looked unruffled, although sweat rolled down her pale nudity and slicked her dark hair to her scalp, with a regal refusal to acknowledge that she had no clothes on. The Wise Ones were using slim, curved pieces of bronze, called staera, to scrape off sweat and the day's dirt.
Aviendha was squatting sweatily beside the big black kettle of hot, sooty rocks in the middle of the tent, carefully using a pair of tongs to move a last stone from a smaller kettle to the larger. That done, she sprinkled water onto the rocks from a gourd, adding to the steam. If she let the steam fall too far, she would be spoken to sharply at the very least. The next time the Wise Ones met in the sweat tent, it would be Egwene's turn to tend the rocks.
Egwene cautiously sat down cross-legged next to Bair—instead of layered rugs, there was only rocky ground, unpleasantly hot, lumpy and damp—and realized with a shock that Aviendha had been switched, and recently. When the Aiel woman gingerly took her own place, beside Egwene, she did so with a face as stony as the ground, but a face that could not hide her flinch.
To call these descriptions 'gratuitous' is, of course, only in comparison to RJ's (incredibly rare) treatments of male nudity (and not in comparison to, say, GRRM).
LUCKERS
@BrandSanderson I still think that implies a little too much premeditation in the depiction, but I'm happy with your description.LUCKERS
I'm not denying its presence, I'm denying the implications that the depiction is wrong. It flowed naturally...LUCKERS
...from the plot, and wasn't lascivious. I certainly don't think RJ worked to include it.LUCKERS
Besides... if you wanna have a gay male character in A Memory of Light I'd not complain. :)TEREZ
Okay then. Do you think that RJ's insistence that there be no male nudity in the films was 'organic'?Footnote—Terez
I was wrong about the film distinction, though I do believe there is an older report somewhere mentioning this that I am missing. However, there is a 'no male nudity' tag for all the times RJ mentioned it at signings; it was a running joke for him.
TEREZ
That is where this little debate started, because it is essentially the proof of the point.BRANDON SANDERSON
Ha. Well (though I'm on your side) it could be argued that's a marketing decision.TEREZ
LOL. Many things could be argued. Some arguments are more logical than others, though. :)LUCKERS
I didn't know about this insistence. That's a little... weird, honestly. No, ok, a lot weird.TEREZ
See, if you had actually read my debate with @BrandSanderson we wouldn't have to catch you up. ;)BRANDON SANDERSON
It's cultural, unfortunately. You can have female nudity and get a PG-13. But not male. Of course, that...BRANDON SANDERSON
...leads us to the whole topfreedom debate, which ISN'T something I really want to get into.TEREZ
It doesn't necessarily lead there. Again, I bring it up mostly for cultural awareness reasons.LUCKERS
That's really stupid—but does make some sense. Also, I don't know if you remember Terez but for a while there were...LUCKERS
...some fairly rampant pockets of homophobia amongst the fandom—I had this discussion with @zemaille at WorldCon.FOOTNOTE—TEREZ
I had the same discussion with Linda before Luckers did, at the previous JordanCon. I think she was a little shocked by the number of people at tor.com who refuse to even recognize that pillow friends are lesbians.TEREZ
There still are. It's mostly visible at tor.com—some staunch conservatives there.LINDA TAGLIERI
Oh yeah!TEREZ
Which is unfortunate considering Leigh's views. There is a ruckus every time she brings it up.LUCKERS
*nods* And as sad as it is to think that RJ was wary of this—it's reasonable to avoid alienating your fans.TEREZ
Well, if he was trying to avoid alienating THOSE fans he wouldn't have included lesbians either.LUCKERS
Mmm. Lesbians have always been the safer homosexual depiction—which says a lot about our society.SETH BAKER
In the end, you're indicting modern Western society, not RJ himself. He knew what you can't do and sell.TEREZ
The first bit, yes. The second bit...I don't think that marketing was his only motive.SETH BAKER
There're people who are not morally opposed to homosexuality, are fine with reading FF, but not MM for what it's worth.TEREZ
And that is exactly the problem that is being addressed. Not judging RJ so much as ourselves.LUCKERS
I hesitate to ask—but what's topfreedom? My mind went to an icky place. :STEREZ
LOL. I imagine it has to do with the fact that men can go shirtless but women can't.LUCKERS
OH! That's... much nicer than what I was thinking. Hehe.LUCKERS
I will say this, though—the complete lack of any sort of hetero-normative assumption in WoT gets RJ my vote.BRANDON SANDERSON
I wish this plane would let me use Tweetlonger to jump into this with more teeth.TEREZ
Feel free to jump in with teeth later. We're not going anywhere. :)LUCKERS
Yes. More teeth would be awesome! But we aren't going anywhere.BRANDON SANDERSON
This whole issue—homosexuality, conservatism, and the WoT—deserves a serious, thoughtful post.BRANDON SANDERSON
I just can't do that in 100 character bursts.TEREZ
Cool. I am looking forward to it.LUCKERS
I respect that Brandon. Still, post what you want—we understand it's not your full argument.BRANDON SANDERSON
I will say that there IS a gay male in Towers of Midnight, placed there on my part as I felt similar to you on this issue.BRANDON SANDERSON
I was going to tell you who it was, but figuring this out is the sort of thing you guys love, isn't it?TEREZ
YAY! But of course, then you have to be careful not to make him too throw-away....TEREZ
I considered Androl earlier, when I considered you might do this. lol. But I will think on it some more.LUCKERS
Oh. Hey! Awesome. Ok, now we have to figure it out.LUCKERS
Hopefully not Denezel or Hatch—their wives would be furious. :DFOOTNOTE
Jason Denzel and Matt Hatch, webmasters of Dragonmount and Theoryland respectively—they were recognized as innkeepers in Towers of Midnight.BRANDON SANDERSON
I'll note that references to his sexuality were cut merely because I moved the chapter with mention to A Memory of Light.BRANDON SANDERSON
I won't say if it's a new character or one I made a decision on, since there weren't notes either way.TEREZ
And he seems to have ruled out Moridin, alas. But that would be sort of Dumbledore-y anyway.TEREZ
(And yes, I have read @BrandSanderson's thoughts on Dumbledore. Just saying. And we're not talking kids' books here.)LUCKERS
I'm beginning to think it somewhat strange that I'm the one defending RJ the heaviest given your points...LUCKERS
... and the fact that I'm gay. Does that mean my loyalty to RJ defies reason, or that I'm so used to accepting...LUCKERS
...the dribbles that are depictions of homosexuality in fantasy? A disturbing thought.TEREZ
Nah, not weird at all. You're pretty anti-activist in a lot of ways. Overcompensation, of course. ;)TEREZ
I believe you are sensitive to the right-wing idea of the Gay Agenda.TEREZ
So you seem to have a reluctance to champion your own causes too loudly, internally as well as externally.TEREZ
In some ways it's a healthy reluctance. In some ways, it's sad that it is necessary.LUCKERS
Well the gays are plotting world domination—we discussed this in our last High Council. But that's another conversation.BRANDON SANDERSON
You have good reason to defend him, Luckers. There ARE good examples. Arrela is one.TEREZ
Seonid isn't bad either. Right? :D I think they might have been responses to the criticism.LUCKERS
*nods* Arrela's love was beautiful. And your scene in The Gathering Storm was heartbreaking.BRANDON SANDERSON
Yes, gay men are few and far between. But it could be much worse. See: Eddings, or worse, Goodkind and Newcomb.SETH BAKER
I'm with you on that. I got bored reading Goodkind because of how annoyingly ANTI-PC it was.SETH BAKER
In the end, I want my stories to refrain from editorializing. Tell the story, and tell it to your audience.BRANDON
Goodkind is...well, let's not go there. It's good, sometimes, to be anti-PC, as the world isn't PC.BRANDON
But if you're going to delve in and editorialize, I believe it important to look at the other side too.TEREZ
I haven't read Newcomb, but yes, Goodkind's inclusion was of the worst sort.TEREZ
Again, few people think RJ is all bad on this. But the fact that we are so appreciative of his rather biased...TEREZ
...and gratuitous inclusion shows how far behind we are as a society.BRANDON
Ha. Terez, you NEED to read Newcomb. If only because I want to see your head explode when you do.TEREZ
LOL. Well, I will bring it along to JordanCon then, so you can observe. ;)BRANDON
It is an incredible experience. Goodkind times 1000 in the anti-feminist department. And it seems unconscious.LUCKERS
Goodkind disturbs me on more levels than that, but I do take your point—it was what I meant by accepting dribbles.BRANDON
The thing is, [RJ] tried. And in the end, that's the most important thing can ask. The second is that they listen.BRANDON
And I do think RJ listened. I think he grew more sensitive on this subject as time passed.FOOTNOTE—TEREZ
RJ was in many ways very responsive to fan criticism, but he seemed to play the Eelfinn in that he liked to make jokes out of granting our wishes. A good example: Fans complained that characters never had to use a privy while in POV. RJ added a couple of references (including an 'if you must know' from Tuon), and he even threw in urine-tasting in Crossroads of Twilight. Clearly that was RJ getting a laugh on us. He made passing mention of male homosexuality in a couple of the later books (including New Spring), and while it wasn't quite a balance for his lesbians, it was an improvement. He also made public statements that homosexuality was all around not a big deal in Randland, for either gender. He made it clear that, in general, writing about male sexuality was just a squick for him, but he tended to be rather open and modern about his sexuality (even in the family-friendly context of WoT) and so the gender bias sticks out to many modern readers.TEREZ
Agreed, as I noted before re: the response to criticism. Again, it's more about us than about him.LUCKERS
Interesting thought—about listening and changing. Kind of beautiful as well—that fans can give back to authors.LUCKERS
That RJ touched on it at all was good—especially when we remember when he was writing these books.LUCKERS
It does well to remember just how much the degree to which homosexuality is depicted has changed recently.TEREZ
This is true. I just feel that now is the time to blow it out of the water, for that very reason.BRANDON SANDERSON
I'm curious if either of you read Rose of the Prophet, and what you thought of it. (Because of the gay male character.)TEREZ
hmm, nope, haven't heard of it. I was told Deathgate was the only thing by [Weis and Hickman] worth reading.FOOTNOTE—TEREZ
To explain, I rarely find myself overly desirous of reading new books since WoT occupies so much of my time these days, so I tend to go by friend recommendations and not worry much about whether or not I would actually agree.LUCKERS
Do you guys realise how much Rand's early arc resonates with a gay teenager?LUCKERS
A young man who—through no choice of his own—finds himself to be something hated and feared.LUCKERS
Something judged to be morally wrong though no moral choice has been made on his part.LUCKERS
The whole arc—the 'men's pride, men's sin' resonated very heavily with me.BRANDON SANDERSON
That's FASCINATING, honestly. I'd never thought of that.TEREZ
I bet RJ never thought of it either. :D But yes, it's a good comparison in many ways.LUCKERS
All of this is why I never liked Mat in my first readings (when i was like 13). His reaction to Rand was...LUCKERS
...a little to close to home. And no I haven't read [Rose of the Prophet]—I will now though. (sorry for going on this tangent).LUCKERS
It doesn't really matter to me if RJ meant the comparison—that he depicted something similar with such...LUCKERS
...visceral realism is the value of a great writer, because then the fans can take what they need from it.LUCKERS
And in truth Rand's arc in dealing with it taught me how to. In fact its one of the reasons I love Cadsuane...TEREZ
Because Cadsuane was Rand's faghag? No wait, that was Min! No, she was his beard...LUCKERS
She doesn't feel sorry for Rand, or try to coddle him—she treats him like she would any other person...LUCKERS
Her refusal to let Rand allow circumstance to victimize him was a powerful and subtle theme.TEREZ
Indeed, that's why I like her. And why most people hate her. Because she should respect his authoritay!LUCKERS
And I think it is the greatest service anyone in the books has done him. Even if Rand couldn't appreciate it.LUCKERS
Re: Parallels between Rand's early arc and being gay...[from The Great Hunt]
"No, I can't. I mean . . . I didn't do it on purpose. It just happened. I don't want to—to channel the Power. I won't ever do it again. I swear it."
"You don't want to," the Amyrlin Seat said. "Well, that's wise of you. And foolish, too. Some can be taught to channel; most cannot. A few, though, have the seed in them at birth. Sooner or later, they wield the One Power whether they want to or not, as surely as roe makes fish. You will continue to channel, boy. You can't help it. And you had better learn to channel, learn to control it, or you will not live long enough to go mad. The One Power kills those who cannot control its flow."
"How am I supposed to learn?" he demanded. Moiraine and Verin just sat there, unruffled, watching him. Like spiders. "How? Moiraine claims she can't teach me anything, and I don't know how to learn, or what. I don't want to, anyway. I want to stop. Can't you understand that? To stop!"—Chapter 8, 'The Dragon Reborn'
That desperation is something I remember. Then this...
He paused, frowning, thinking things through. Finally, he said quietly, "Rand, can you channel?" Mat gave a strangled gasp. Rand let the banner drop; he hesitated only a moment before nodding wearily. "I did not ask for it. I don't want it. But. . . . But I do not think I know how to stop it."
—and finally...
Mat hesitated, looking sideways at Rand. "Look, I know you came along to help me, and I am grateful. I really am. But you just are not the same anymore. You understand that, don't you?" He waited as if he expected an answer. None came. Finally he vanished into the trees, back toward the camp.—Chapter 11, 'Glimmers of the Pattern'
Potent scenes. Especially Mat's last lines. *shrug*
TEREZ
Yeah, I knew exactly what you were talking about as soon as you mentioned it. Perrin isn't much better.TEREZ
Perrin is just not as thoughtlessly hurtful as Mat is. He's more the silent disapproval type.LUCKERS
Though Perrin does realise the hypocrisy, and feel bad, so I didn't mind so much. :)LINDA TAGLIERI
Yes, I appreciated Perrin's sympathy and tact—like when he said Rand is now a dreaded figure.LINDA TAGLIERI
For instance he suggested that while running was understandable, it might not be possible.LINDA TAGLIERI
Of course, Perrin is coming to terms with being a werewolf, so understandable he knows how Rand feels.LUCKERS
And with Perrin the parallel stops—Rand is a genuine threat, whereas homosexuality isn't.LINDA TAGLIERI
Both Perrin and Rand loathe themselves because they feel they are a threat to society.LUCKERS
Just got a rather abrupt tweet from someone who I think thought I was implying Rand was gay.LUCKERS
Which clearly is accurate. The Harem are the red herring to end all red herrings.TEREZ
LOL. Yeah, well...ignorance and prejudice go hand in hand (or so they say). ;)TEREZ
You know you're gay when you need THREE beards to maintain your cover.LUCKERS
Lol!BRANDON SANDERSON
And...half of my in-flight WoT reread time was sucked up by a great Twitter conversation about gender and LGBT issues in the WoT.TEREZ
Ohhhh, blame it on us will you! :p You knew as soon as you saw you had Twitter you weren't getting any work done. ;)LUCKERS
Haha. Yeah—I've written a hundred and fifty words in three hours. Today was gonna be my productive day too. *sigh*/BRANDON SANDERSON
I have a new goal: to get Terez and Leigh Butler to do a feminist review of Newcomb's Fifth Sorceress for Tor.com. How can I make this happen?PETER AHLSTROM
Sadist.TEREZ
LOL. If you can talk Leigh into it, I'm so down with that.LUCKERS
Lol. A gay, a feminist and a Mormon walk into a bar—whereupon they have a deep and meaningful conversation about sexuality in WoT. #NoJokesTEREZ
LMAO. It's funny, though...I don't really think of myself as a feminist. Just an equalist.LUCKERS
I was just being funny with the no jokes thing—the reality of us three having that conversation struck me.TEREZ
Not to mention, you were raised Catholic, and I was raised Southern Baptist. Now we need a Muslim...Tags
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Interview: Dec 12th, 2000
CNN Chat (Verbatim)Jonan
Mr. Jordan, is it possible that in another age, another turning of the wheel, that saidar could be tainted instead of saidin? This relates to the Female Dragon Theory.Robert Jordan
That is not something I intend to explore.Tags
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Interview: Apr 4th, 2001
Leiden Signing Report - Aan'allein (Verbatim)Aan'allein
In this same Age, in a different Turning of the Wheel of Time, could it be possible that it wouldn't be Rand's soul that was spun out as the Dragon, but for a different, female soul to take on this role?Robert Jordan
Jordan said "Yes" then maybe a few more words and only then did I remember to actually put the recorder on again. If I remember correctly Avaeus taped those first few words on his digital camera however, so I'll see if I can add those exact words here.
(transcription) ...it would have to be. Err, in the differences between the same Age in different turnings of the Wheel, are that.. as for an analogy: imagine two tapestries hanging on a wall, and you look at them from the back of the room to the front of the store. And to look at them, they look identical to you. But as you get closer, you begin to see differences. And if you get close enough, they don't look anything at all alike. That is the difference between the Ages. Between the Age in one Turning and the Age in another. So it's quite possible that someone other than Rand could be the reborn soul of the Dragon Reborn. [And that's the phrase that ended my jubilation.]
Aan'allein
It would be the same soul, or it would be a different soul?Robert Jordan
It would be the same soul. That is, that is the belief of the world that I've set up, that it's the same soul. It's a soul of someone bound to the Wheel, which is spun out for the purposes, for the Wheel's purposes really, to attempt to re-balance the Weaving of the Pattern.Aan'allein
But the soul would always be male. Souls don't change gender, so ...Robert Jordan
...so the soul of the Dragon Reborn is always going to be male, just as Birgitte's soul is always born as a woman, just as Ameresu's soul is always born as a woman. There are divisions here, and they are not interchangeable.Aan'allein
[He actually pronounced this as Amatherisu. Anyone else find it curious that Jordan would place her on equal footing with Rand and Birgitte? The way he said this reminded me of Mother Therese, just like "Materese the Healer" (The Eye of the World, Chapter 4). Ameresu could most definitely be the same person as Materese. And the "The Healer" tag suddenly gets a lot more meaning, when thinking about how important she is to Jordan...]Tags
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Interview: Apr 4th, 2001
Leiden Signing Report - Aan'allein (Verbatim)Aan'allein
As I approached Jordan I heard him telling that he'd already been in the Netherlands for a couple of days, and that after the next weekend he would still stay around for four or five days, sightseeing.
Getting my books signed, I gave him the 400 pages female Dragon debate, telling him that this was the debate he'd just ended (I mentioned how long it had been going on, just after he'd answered the female Dragon question), asking if he could perhaps be willing to take a look at it sometime. He said that he'd do that, but that he didn't know how much time he'd have, since he had to read something that didn't have to do with his own work before going to bed:
Robert Jordan
If I don't, I will not go to sleep. I will ponder all night completely about my own work. And about what I should be doing, and what I need to do in the future. So...it's necessary to read other people.Tags
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Interview: Apr 6th, 2001
Rotterdam Signing Report - Aan'allein (Verbatim)Question
A question was asked: how afraid are you to read something a fan wrote and see that it has become part of your book?Terry Pratchett
Pratchett said things about the people no longer knowing the rules of the game, about the suggestion that ideas are worth money etc.Aan'allein
The talk continued in the direction of fan fiction, with Jordan talking about stacks of paper he sometimes received. Sitting there I felt certain the female Dragon debate I'd given him was doomed, but listening to this again now, I have better hopes.
Robert Jordan
People occasionally send me various compilations of FAQs and things of that sort they've done about the books, or analyses of the books, and I will occasionally read that if I have time, but fan fiction, or other fiction, or 'I've read this book and would you please tell me what you think of it?' or stories, it gets returned to them.
I do not read it, I'm sorry. It's not because I think that anything is going to compete with my works, it's not, but it's because what Terry said, there are bozos out there.
I was accused in an anonymous letter to my publisher, of plagiarizing. That The Dragon Reborn was plagiarized. Now this infuriated me to such an extent that I'm going to incredible efforts to find out who'd written the damned letter. I knew it was a nutcase bozo somewhere, because I knew that every word was ripped out of the inside of my skull. And I'm going to find him, and push him into a corner, and beat him half to death with my walking stick [laughter], because he made me that mad, that he would make this accusation against me. And this was...in an anonymous letter, who is not making any effort, he's not trying to make any money out of it, he just wants to cause trouble.
There are guys out there who I know who said 'you know, I have this great idea' and the great idea they want to share with you is worth about as much as 'let's write a book about pilots' and the worst case is when they see something in the book and say, and they think that they can claim it was stolen from them. So I will not read fan fiction, I will not read anything that somebody sends to me. The only things I read are the books I buy.
Aan'allein
He ends very definite about not reading anything, but he's really only talking about fanfiction, and the first few remarks about reading analyses give me hope again.Tags
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Interview: Apr 6th, 2001
Rotterdam Signing Report - Aan'allein (Verbatim)Robert Jordan
Following very carefully, because the guy is apparently a very professional hacker, and for some reason the first six of my books, and the last the text are posted in English translation on this Russian site.Pratchett
On a Russian site? [half-laughing...in a tone of uh-oh, no way to do anything about that.]Robert Jordan
Yes, and I'm not the only one up there apparently, a lot of guys, and I mean, I've gone after, I've gotten shut down other sites, people who had been posting a translation in Russia and other places, what this guy is doing I don't know, except that I was cautioned to not visit the site myself, and it's not apparently as simply as saying 'stop this.' It would be quicker to get a contract with the Russia mafia. [laughter]Aan'allein
This is of course (which books are up there proves it) the same site as was once posted here, which I mailed the Haydens about, thus making Jordan aware about this. Hmm, I wonder if I should mention that to Jordan. Would he even believe me? Could he perhaps be thankful enough to decide to change the way his world works so that a female Dragon would be possible? ;)Robert Jordan
Jordan was very angry about such things and hackers in general. He'd like to have a virus that anyone who'd penetrate his firewall [so he really is online nowadays! not just sometimes when someone gives him a computer to take a test to see which gender he is, ;) but at home as well...and he knows the vocabulary] would get a package that would blow up his monitor for starters, to create a distraction so that the virus could continue to wipe out the hard disk and simultaneously cause power overloads to set fire to and fry every piece of electronic equipment that is attached to this computer. [laughter]Tags
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Interview: Nov 6th, 1998
Amazon.com Interview (Verbatim)Amazon
Big Wheel: Our Interview with Robert Jordan (Amazon.com)
Robert Jordan—Citadel graduate, decorated Vietnam veteran, and physicist by education—is only steps away from Tolkien as the most popular fantasy author in history. His bestselling Wheel of Time series tells the story of a world broken into a male-female duality. Women wield the One Power, safeguarding it against the darkness until the male Dragon Reborn appears as foretold by prophecy. Each of the eight (so far) books in the series is a complex, detailed history of a fully realized culture. Enthusiastic readers have filled our pages with their comments, and Web sites around the world extol the virtues of Jordan and his creations. Amazon.com's Therese Littleton spoke with Jordan about his fans, his books, and his inspirations.
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Interview: Sep 3rd, 2005
DragonCon Report - Isabel (Verbatim)Question
When you first starting thinking about the series and thinking about writing it: when you were naming things, and places and people, did you have any sort of process or did you say, hey that sounds cool?Robert Jordan
Well, I don't know, it is a combination of things. I gave this recently, so it is probably already on the net. How did I come up with the division of the One Power, the male and female half? I had seen a novel, there are a lot now, but this was the first I had seen like this. Young woman wants to be whatever it was, a magician, whatever, but she can't because she is a woman, and women aren't allowed to do that so she is going to struggle through it.
I thought it was interesting, one of the earlier novels of the feminist struggle, and all that. I put it back, because it didn't seem something I cared to read, but I thought about it because the thought that occurred to me is okay, that's real easy, women aren't allowed to do this, it is historically based or grounded at least, what if it was men who couldn't, now how would that be, as my wife points out to me, we have the upper body strength, and she is convinced all of the inequities in the world vis a vis gender, are subject to the fact that we have all the upper body strength, and I am sorry about that baby, I ain't giving it up. So, how could there be a situation where men were not allowed to do this, and it does not somehow get itself reversed over time, add into this I wanted a near gender equal world as I could, and how could I have a situation where women could maintain gender equality?
Okay, now I split men and women, have different sources of power and the male source of power is tainted. Okay, you've gotta stop men and at the same time, out of this beginning came the division of the One Power, the White Tower existing as the political center of power for three thousand years, false dragon, the destruction of the world by men, false dragons arising periodically to remind humanity exactly why men can't be allowed to channel and why the White Tower must remain the center of political power. A lot of stuff came out of that one notion.
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Interview: Jul, 2009
Joshua_Patrao
About your characters, Brandon: Which ones are the most like yourself?
Brandon Sanderson
There's a piece of me in every one of them, but I'm not really like any of them. People who know me well say that Alcatraz's humor reminds them of my humor (which is different from Lightsong's humor or Kelsier's humor, which are different from mine.) Elend in the original Mistborn book represents some of how I've been known to act (bringing books to social events). Shuden in Elantris has a lot of me in him, actually. Raoden has my optimism, Hrathen my logical and thoughtful (and dangerously devious) mind, Vin my pragmatic determination, and Sarene my utter lack of skill with painting or drawing. In the end, I don't know if I can pick one who is most like me. Perhaps you should ask my wife. She'd probably be better at seeing this than I am.Joshua_Patrao
Your favorite male and female characters you've written?Brandon Sanderson
Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by favorite. A lot of people ask me this question, and my response is often different. Who am I writing at the time, what I am feeling at the time? Lightsong makes me laugh, but Kelsier is conflicted in a more personal, dangerous way—and that appeals to me. Vin is best rounded, but Sazed is (perhaps) closest to my heart.Joshua_Patrao
Your favorite male/female characters of all time?Brandon Sanderson
Man, I'm bad at answering questions like this. Okay, male is probably Jean Valjean. Female...urg... Moiraine, maybe? Sioned from Dragon Prince is pretty awesome too. Double urg. I don't know. Jenny from Dragonsbane has long been one of my favorites, so maybe I'd pick her.Tags
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Interview: Sep 21st, 2010
Matt Hatch
This has to do with the Luckers’ Shiny Dragon theory. Masema mentions having a vision, someone tells him to kill Perrin. So, my question, was the individual telling him to kill Perrin a male or female?
Brandon Sanderson
He saw a male.
Matt Hatch
He did, but was the individual a male or a female?Brandon Sanderson
(Laughs appreciatively and pauses)Yes, yes he was a male or a female.
Matt Hatch
(Laughs) Was the individual a male?Brandon Sanderson
(Thoughtful, deep intake of breath, pause)Matt Hatch
…as classically defined by his physical…(laughter)Brandon Sanderson
(Says, yes I get what you are asking)…Matt Hatch
...I’ll say it this way, does this individual have the soul of a man or a woman?Brandon Sanderson
mmmhmm. (pauses looking up for a good twenty or thirty seconds)Brandon Sanderson
Female.Matt Hatch
Excellent.Tags
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Interview: Nov 8th, 2010
TOM Signing Report - Sarayne (Paraphrased)Question
Have there been any female ta'veren?Maria Simons
None in the main series, but they can be. Some people think Egwene may be ta'veren, but I don't think she is. (A fan pointed out that someone would have seen her as ta'veren and Maria agreed that she is not.)Alan Romanczuk
The Dragon is always a man.Tags
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Interview: Apr, 2001
RJ in the Netherlands - Marion Kippers (Paraphrased)Robert Jordan
I liked the explanation of how the different turnings of the Wheel of Time create similar but very different tapestries for the same age—but the Dragon Reborn will always be a male soul (that was the question), just like Birgitte will always be a female soul.Tags
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Interview: 2001
Thus Spake the Creator (Paraphrased)Signing Report (Workings of the Wheel)
Robert Jordan
Female Dragon..NO when a female hero is needed she is one of the ones bound to the Wheel. Jordan did mention a name but I didn't hear it. But he did say the Dragon is never female.
Let's try and clear some of this up... I can't remember the exact question, but from what I read in this thread, it doesn't matter (I haven't read the Female Dragon thread). RJ said that, no, it is not possible to have a female Dragon. If the wheel needs a female Dragon, then it would weave in *insert female Dragon name here*. Probably because of the blank faces he was getting he then added, you can find her in the scene where Mat blows the Horn...
He also said that a soul ready to be reborn cannot change gender, therefor the Dragon is ALWAYS male.
Footnote
This might actually be two different reports; since we haven't found the original sources for either, we're not sure.Tags
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Interview: May, 2012
A Memory of Light Cover Art Round-Up (Verbatim)Terez
The tor.com post about the Whelan art is copied in full and parsed for tagging, but there are some plot-relevant bits from a friend of Whelan's in the comments that are recorded at the bottom, and I've clipped the relevant bit about the DKS art from Tor's tribute post.Irene Gallo
The scene depicts Min, Aviendha, and Elayne gathered on a battlefield around what is presumably a funeral pyre for Rand al’Thor, the Dragon Reborn. What we recognize as a yin/yang appears in the clouds, possibly signifying a unity that has evaded male and female channelers for over 3000 years.
DARRELL K. SWEET
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Interview: May, 2012
A Memory of Light Cover Art Round-Up (Verbatim)MRJackson@218 (7 May 2012)
Not sure why there's still confusion. It's Nynaeve and Moiraine on the back cover. The yellow and blue dresses should make that apparent. Nynaeve's hair is obviously shorter than it used to be.
I spoke to Michael about the cover as he was finishing it. Since he didn't have the opportunity to read all fourteen books for the assignment, I was one of the people he leaned on to fact check his work.
Michael mentioned there are details the readers (like me) wouldn't be privy to yet. For example, Nynaeve takes the bulk of her jewelry off before this scene.
Callandor is a sword that isn't a sword, right? He's not holding it for defense. It's a source of power as well as his source of light (there's a clue about that in the lighting on his face). He's shielding his eyes as he stares in to the pit. Apparently, the deeper he goes into Shayol Ghul, the brighter it shines.
A little background that some might not know... Michael has studied martial arts, including Filipino Kali and Arnis. The forearm slash position actually has some utility in fights with bladed weapons.
Compositionally, the line of the sword is another element that draws you into the intensity of Rand's stare. Further, the opening of the cave is the shape of an eye; the eclipse suggests an iris. It's as if the gaze of the Dark One is falling on Rand. We see his strength and determination in response. How many illustrators can convey that kind of depth in a scene?
Say what you will, but I think Michael brought a lot to the plate on what was a very difficult cover assignment. He put his stamp on Rand while producing a cover that fits well with the first thirteen that DKS painted.
analiese@222 (8 May 2012)
Thanks for confirming that. However, Nynaeve's hair is still the wrong color and, while it's shorter after the Aes Sedai testing in Towers of Midnight, it should still be in a shoulder-length braid. She never gave up her signature braid. That's why many people don't think it looks like Nynaeve—the braid is the main thing that would identify her as Nynaeve to the readers.
The loose light hair makes the woman on the cover look more like Alivia, who many fans believe is the woman in yellow. So I'm still of the opinion that Whelan did not do a good job with Nynaeve if longtime fans don't even recognize her. I think it's a beautiful cover, but as a reader, the main thing I care about is seeing the characters—who we have been reading about for twenty years—done right, not so much whether the cave looks realistic or happens to symbolize the Dark One spying on Rand. So it's disappointing that Nynaeve ended up virtually unrecognizable. She doesn't even wear yellow dresses in the books, despite being Yellow Ajah (she makes a point of wearing green or blue since that's what Lan likes), so that's not something that makes the woman's identity apparent either.
If you don't mind me asking (not trying to be rude here, it just strikes me as a bit strange), why did Whelan rely on fans to check his work instead of Team Jordan? I'm assuming you work for Tor, but you refer to yourself as a reader who hasn't read the book. To what extent were Brandon Sanderson and Team Jordan involved with the creative process behind this cover?
MRJackson@223
I was just one of the people helping with the details. Obviously Michael had Irene Gallo's art direction and was in contact with editors including Harriet.
Michael's wife Audrey usually serves as his sounding board, but she hadn't read the books. (For the record, I'm not affiliated with TOR. I've worked with Michael since the mid 90s, primarily on his website.) I'm a WoT fan and that's the kind of feedback Michael was looking for... someone he knew who had read the previous thirteen books.
Michael and I did discuss Nynaeve's dress color. I mentioned that she catered to Lan's color preference of green and blue. The yellow of her Ajah usually came in slashes of color, accents if I recall correctly.
Like I said, I haven't read the manuscript for A Memory of Light and Michael couldn't talk about it. But I distinctly recall Nynaeve taking pride in being a true Aes Sedai finally. Going into the Last Battle, I don't think it's a stretch that she would choose yellow. I suppose we'll have to RAFO on that.
In the background information I provided, I described Nynaeve's hair color as darker brown and referenced previous covers (among them the Melanie Delon's cover for A Crown of Swords that drew criticism for being too red).
I'd have to ask him why he chose lighter highlights. Just my speculation here, but Callandor is a light source. There's also illumination from the eclipse filtering in from the mouth of the cave to consider.
Michael got the length of Nynaeve's hair right, and this isn't simply opinion. Hopefully Brandon or Harriet will confirm at some point that her shoulder length hair was too short to braid.
Interestingly, Michael and I spoke about the challenge of pulling character descriptions from the text. If you're familiar with his illustration, he's known as a stickler for details. But it isn't always easy to translate text literally, especially when Jordan and Sanderson contradict in their description.
In correspondence, Michael wrote,
Michael Whelan
"Major characters are described as diminutive in size, yet 'commanding' in presence. Faces are youthful, yet ageless. Or young but having eyes full of wisdom of the ages. Rand is tall and manly, yet has an almost "feminine" beauty in his eyes or mouth. It's a bit confusing how one is supposed to render such conflicting elements."
MRJackson
Honestly, I don't mind the nitpicking. Criticism comes with the territory. My point in responding is to state that Michael was mindful of details here. There's evidence of it in the painting. I can tell you that he had Moiraine's kesiera and Nynaeve's ki'sain accounted for before I even spoke to him.
On a personal note, I had the privilege of meeting Robert Jordan before a signing on the Knife of Dreams tour. One of the things we talked about was the cover art for the series. I think Mr. Jordan would be pleased with this one. Obviously Harriet was when she said, "that is the Rand I have waited to see for twenty years."
analiese@224
Firstly, thank you very much for the thorough answer. It answered many of my questions, and it was also interesting to hear more about the creative process behind the cover.
[Nynaeve's hair] got singed off "a handspan below her shoulders" (Towers of Midnight ch 20), and she wore a shoulder-length braid in every scene she was in after the Aes Sedai testing. That's why it seemed odd for her signature braid to be missing on the cover. I don't really care about the dress or even much about the hair color, but Nynaeve isn't Nynaeve without her braid—it's part of who she is. It's like Mat showing up without his hat and ashandarei. And the ki'sain is too small to be visible, so it doesn't do anything to make the woman on the cover look more like Nynaeve.
I also wish Nynaeve and Moiraine hadn't been delegated to the background/back cover—since they're going to be linked with him, they deserve to stand at his side. But that's not an error, just something I wish were different.
However, while the cover isn't what I hoped for, I understand and deeply appreciate that you and Whelan both worked incredibly hard on it, and Whelan remains one of my favorite illustrators. I think he did a wonderful job with Rand.
MRJackson@228
I appreciate the sentiment but Michael did the actual work. He pushed his calendar aside this spring to make the cover happen. I was just support. But I will admit it took a lot of restraint on my part not to inundate him with questions that I knew he couldn't answer, so there is that.
As readers, we all have so much invested in this series that I completely understand what you're saying. I love Brandon's work, but I felt Towers of Midnight was a bit of a letdown, especially the resolution with Moiraine.
Moiraine has always been a favorite of mine. I would have liked to see her on the front cover as well. Thankfully Dan Dos Santos gave us that in his brilliant cover for The Fires of Heaven.
Wetlandernw@227
I think MRJackson & Mr. Whelan made a very good point, in that we have not yet read this book. By the time this scene happens, we may see several other events that make sense of the seeming discrepancies. Specifically, there are only two scenes after Nynaeve's testing which mention her braid, and in both cases it is specifically noted that it is too short and she finds it quite annoying. Quite possibly she'll meet up with Lan and find out that he likes it loose, or she'll simply decide that it's too irritating to fuss with a too-short braid, and we'll see her with loose hair in several scenes before this.
Someone was bothered earlier by the missing jewelry—but now we know that she specifically and deliberately removed the jewelry before this scene, probably so that someone else could use them. (That's what happened during the Cleansing; why not here as well?) Seems to me that we should make the assumption that the same kind of thing might happen with The Braid, instead of insisting that she should look like she did in the previous book, and claiming any discrepancies as mistakes. Such claims are not only rude, they are unfounded. Once the book is out and we've read the whole thing, we might have grounds for nitpicking; until then, not so much.
MRJackson—Thank you for your contributions, both to this thread and to Mr. Whelan.
MRJackson@230 (9 May 2012)
Glad to be of help. Maybe someday we'll find closure in the great braid debate...
Seriously though, Michael painted Nynaeve's hair at that length (without a braid) for a reason. I wasn't trying to sidestep debate. I was expressing certainty. Michael was aware that the braid was an identifying feature of her character. The painting turned out the way it did through a long process that involved editorial input. I'll leave it at that.
I look at it this way (and this is my opinion)... Nynaeve has grown enormously through the books. She was always uniquely powerful, but it took time for her to grow into that power. More so, it took a dozen books to accept herself and decide who she wanted to be.
Nynaeve worked through enormous difficulty to channel reliably. Remember how she used to tug on that braid? It really was a symbol of who she used to be. Kind of fitting that the symbol is gone.
Old habits die hard, of course, but she isn't that girl tugging on her braid any more. She's a woman who fought to gain acceptance as an Aes Sedai, and she's going to stand at Rand side to face the Dark One. It's impressive how far she's come as a character.
analiese@
The Fires of Heaven ebook cover was definitely one of the best, though there were a few things the artist got wrong (Moiraine does not have blue eyes). The New Spring cover was great too, especially Lan. It's mostly Nynaeve who has suffered bad luck with the ebook covers. There's A Crown of Swords where she got red hair and Lan looked like an underwater zombie, Winter's Heart where she didn't appear at all despite being linked with Rand for the Cleansing, The Path of Daggers where she got a Saldaean nose and Elayne looked suspiciously like Jean Grey...
I think much of my disappointment with the A Memory of Light cover stems from the fact that there's already an earlier cover (Winter's Heart) where Rand claimed the stage and his female linking partner was left out. "Hero poses manfully brandishing some kind of phallic object" is a pretty tired concept, especially on WoT covers. Rand does the same on Sweet's The Dragon Reborn and The Path of Daggers, the ebook covers for The Dragon Reborn, Winter's Heart, Knife of Dreams... Winter's Heart is probably the worst offender, if you look at the placement of the Choedan Kal. ;)
Sweet's A Memory of Light cover was a welcome break from that—I'm not usually a fan of Sweet's covers, but I liked that he gave Elayne, Min, and Aviendha a prominent role and added some emotion to the cover. So I really would have liked to see something different on the final cover, like Rand having the two women from the Callandor circle at his side. Here, Nynaeve and Moiraine are present, but only in the background, and not at all on the ebook cover.
MRJackson@236
The only female lead who held the cover spotlight on par with the men was Moiraine, and that is a shame.
There was definitely opportunity to feature Nynaeve linked with Rand on Winter's Heart. Despite the hair, I liked Nynaeve on the cover of A Crown of Swords. Lan not so much. The Path of Daggers was another miss, mostly because the colors were a distraction. I thought I was looking at an X-Men cover. Even if that was intentional, it didn't work for me.
I can only assume Rand was intended to stand at center stage alone on the last cover, but I think what you suggest would have been great too. Moiraine and Nynaeve definitely earned their place at Rand's side on the front.
ViciousCircle@264
That was a beautiful description of why Nynaeve is one of the most compelling characters in the series. She and Moiraine kept me invested during some dark years of almost giving up on WOT. I always hoped they would be the other Callandor channelers, as I could not imagine Rand putting himself in such a vulnerable position with anyone else. Aviendha, Min and Elayne included, though I do love Aviendha! So thank you for shedding light on why some things are portrayed as they are on this excellent new cover. Just don't think that it will put a dent in the debate. ;)
MRJackson@266
Thanks. I feel much the same way about those characters, and I'm sure the debate will keep going on well after the publication of A Memory of Light.
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Interview: Apr 21st, 2006
Robert Jordan's Blog: MORE THANK YOUS (Verbatim)Robert Jordan
For Rachel, the phoenix is the female symbol of power in Chinese cosmology as the dragon is of male power, so a phoenix wouldn't do for me. Although there is a phoenix among the symbols carved into my Chinese chair, which you may have seen in Faces of Fantasy and elsewhere.
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Interview: Apr, 1997
SFX Profile: Robert Jordan (Verbatim)SFX
That battle's inevitably violent, and Jordan's own background in the military has enabled him to bring a paradoxical perspective to the subject.Robert Jordan
I know what it's like to be in the middle of a battle and I know what it's like to have somebody try and kill you... I can put that in. There's a balance between the moments when you can look back and say that was a magnificent thing and when you say, 'What the hell is going on here?' In the aftermath you're so relieved you're still alive that you can walk among the dead laughing, and people who haven't been there will say that's insanity. It's not; it's the sort of thing that happens...
SFX
Which presumably makes it easier to understand characters' motivations in combat?
Robert Jordan
I try to get into their heads. Sometimes it's difficult—it's hard for me to imagine being a five-foot three female, but I work at it and think I've done a fairly effective job. When I was touring for The Dragon Reborn a group of women told me I'd settled an argument they'd been having about whether Robert Jordan was a pen name for a woman!
But I can get into anyone's head—I'll walk out of my study and my wife will say, 'Been into someone nasty today, haven't you?'
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Interview: Jan 7th, 2013
AMOL Midnight Release Q&A (Verbatim)Brandon Sanderson
We blame people like these, that came up with this, but I do want to—and thank you for your question—I do want to hand...(to Matt) You had a correction on something we said earlier? Do you have it? Okay, Matt's going to correct us from what we were unable to answer, because Robert Jordan apparently gave an answer.
Matt Hatch
So, there was a question about the Dragon soul, and whether that was a title or not—was that your question?—so, he did answer. Someone asked him, because it had to do with...the entirety of the question was, you know, can it change? Could it be a woman, could it be a female? Would it be the same person in a new Turning? And his point, his answer was, it could not be female—that the soul would remain the same gender—and he also said that it would not necessarily be Rand in the next Turning. So in other words, it would still be that same soul, but it would not be—necessarily—the Rand story, the next time around. It might be...whatever. And he talked about it just because, looking at the Pattern as things change in Turnings, little things are going to change, or I guess in this case, maybe it's something bigger. So, I don't know if that answers your question, but that is answered again.
Adam Simmons
The question was really more about Lews Therin as the original Dragon, or as the original Dragon that we know about, and was he born to be the Dragon, or is that something that he kind of grew into?
Matt Hatch
It's the soul, the soul is the Dragon.
Adam Simmons
Okay, so he was born to it.
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Interview: Jan 10th, 2013
AMOL Book Tour - Dayton Q&A (Verbatim)Question
All of the females in your books seem to be very independent, strong women; do you believe that you write them that way from your perspective, or is that your experience, or...?Brandon Sanderson
There's a couple of things behind that. The first is that my mother graduated first in her class in Accounting in a year where she was the only woman in the entire Accounting department—that was in an era where that wasn't something that a lot of women did—and so I've had quite the role model in my life. But beyond that, it's kind of an interesting story. I discovered fantasy with a book I mentioned earlier, Dragonsbane. Wheel of Time was my [?], but I discovered Dragonsbane by Barbara Hambly, and my teacher got me to read this, and I came back to my teacher, and said, "People write books about dragons?" She's like, "Yeah, there's a lot of books about dragons; go read them."
And so I went to the card catalogue, which we had back then in the Stone Age [laughter], and I flipped to the next title in the card catalogue, and it was Dragonflight by Anne McCaffery. And so I'm like, "Well, this has dragons; maybe this is good." And it was fantastic! If you've ever read Dragonflight, it's amazing! So I read through all of those in the school library, and I'm like, "Well, what else is there?" The next title in line was Dragon Prince by Melanie Rawn, and so I read through all of those, which are also fantastic books, and one of the best magic systems in fantasy, in Melanie Rawn's Sunrunner books.
And so I got done with those, and at that point, a friend came to me, who'd heard I discovered fantasy, and said, "Here, you'll like this book." It was by David Eddings. And I told him, "I don't think guys can write fantasy." [laughter] That was—honest to goodness—that's what I told him. I'm like, "I don't know if I want to read a guy writer; I don't think they can get it down." And so, I did end up reading Eddings, and enjoying Eddings, but my introduction to fantasy was through three women who have at times been called feminist writers—all three of them have worn that mantle—and that's still with me as part of what makes a good fantasy book, and I think that's just an influence.
My very first novel that I tried, which was not Elantris—White Sand—the female character turned out really bland, and I was really disappointed in myself, and I thought, "This is terrible." And it took me a long time to figure out—like, several books of work—what I was doing wrong. And what I was doing wrong—and I find this in a lot of new writers across the spectrum—is I was writing people—specifically "the Other"; people who are different from myself—I was putting them in their role, rather than making them a character, right? And this is an easy thing to do—like, you get into the head of your main character; they're often pretty much like you; you can write them; they're full of life; they've got lots of passions—and then, the woman is like the love interest, and the minority is the sidekick, right? Because that's....you know, how do you do that? And you stick these people in these roles, and then they only kind of march through their roles, and so while it's not insulting, the characters don't feel alive. It's like one person in a room full of cardboard cut-outs, like "Stereotypes Monthly" magazine. [laughter] And then your main character.
And women are just as bad at doing this as men, just doing the men in that way. And so it's just something, as a writer, you need to practice, is saying, "What would this character be doing if the plot hadn't gotten in their way?" Remember, they think they're the most important character in the story. They're the hero of their own story. What are their passions and desires aside from the plot? And how is this going to make them a real person? And you start asking yourselves questions like that, and suddenly the characters start to come alive, and start to not "fill the role." And you ask yourself, "Why can't they be in the role they're in?" And that makes a better character, always, than "Why should they be?"
Flop roles, too, if you find yourself falling into this, you say, "Okay, I've stuck—" You know, Robert Jordan kind of did this. The natural thing to do is to put the wise old man into the mentor—you know, the Obi Wan Kenobi, the Gandalf—role, and instead, Robert Jordan put a woman in that role, with Moiraine, and took the wise old man and made him a juggler. [laughter] And these two...you know, and suddenly by forcing these both into different roles, you've got...they're much more interesting characters. And you know, Thom is named after Merlin; he could have very easily been in that role, and instead he wasn't. And so, it made even the first Wheel of Time book so much better by making characters not be the standard stereotypical roles that you would expect for them to be in. So, there you go.
Also, stay away from tokenism. If you force yourself to put two people in from the same culture in your book, that will force you to make them more realistic as characters, because if you only put one in, you can be like, "Alright, their whole race and culture is defined by this person." And putting in multiples can help you to say, "Look, now they can't both just be defined by that." Anyway, I went off on a long diatribe about that; I'm sorry.
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Interview: 2011
Reddit 2011 (Non-WoT) (Verbatim)saintbonifaceDandelion Wine (January 2011)
Hey Bookit,
I am looking for some fantasy novel recommendations for the new year. Here's some of the ones I've read so far:
LOTR Trilogy (of course)
Wheel of Time Series — Robert Jordan
Sword of Truth Series — Terry Goodkind
Quarters Novels 1 & 2 — Tanya Huff
Mirror of Her Dreams/A Man Rides Through — Stephen Donaldson (I also started the Thomas Covenant series, but I didn't like them as much as these ones.)
Assassin's Apprentice — Robin Hobb
Earthsea Trilogy — Ursula K. LeGuin
Kushiel's Scion — Jaqueline Carey
The Mists of Avalon — Marion Zimmer Bradley
Lots of Mercedes Lackey/Anne McCaffrey
Eyes of the Dragon/Dark Tower Series — Stephen King
Game of Thrones — George R.R. Martin (Not my favorite book. It was well-written, but I didn't really get into it.)
In general, I like novels with strong female characters, magical storylines, and maybe a bit of romance/sexual tension thrown in (I'm a girl, I can't help it. :D) I don't like fantasy novels that revolve around wars or political intrigue as much; I tend to get bored with them quickly.
Thanks for your recommendations!
DiscursiveMind
Mistborn should be right up your alley. Female protagonist, innovative magic system. That would be my number one pick for you. If you like the Mistborn saga, I'd also suggest trying out Sanderson's newest series, The Way of Kings, I really enjoyed it.
Name of the Wind is a great book, don't miss out on that one.
The Lies of Locke Lamore is a bit outside of what you might be looking for (more Ocean's Eleven less LotR), but I'd suggest taking a look.
Brandon Sanderson ()
The problem with my books is that she seems to want less political intrigue/wars and more sword and sorcery/adventure. I tend to do quite a bit of the first.
Name of the Wind is a very good suggestion here.
Brandon Sanderson
Okay...less warfare/political intrigue. Female protagonists, high magic, some romance if possible. Didn't like GRRM as much, liked some YA novels...
1) Sabriel, Garth Nix. Not much on the romance, but hits the other points solidly.
2) Dig into some Barbara Hambly books. Many of them are from the same era of fantasy as Lackey/McCaffrey/MZB at their height, and will have a similar feel. Dragonsbane is my go-to suggestion for Hambly.
3) Dragon Prince, by Melanie Rawn, hits all of your points solidly except has a stronger political intrigue plot than you might like. Great romance in the novel, however.
4) Also, if you've never read the Blue Sword...well, this book has a good chance of being exactly what you're looking for. Really. Go for it. Note that it would probably be packaged as YA if it were released today.
5) Howl's moving castle. Great book, has everything you want. I'd give this one a high probability of being a hit.
Honorable mentions to consider: Michelle West, Sherwood Smith, His Dark Materials. If you like stylized prose: Patricia Mckillip. If you want to get your Emo on: C.S. Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy. If you want to laugh, Wee Free Men. (But really, go read the Blue Sword.)
--Brandon Sanderson
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Interview: Jan 10th, 2013
AMOL Signing Report - NutiketAiel (Paraphrased)NutiketAiel (10 January 2014)
Hello, fellow Seventeenth Sharders. As promised, I have taken copious notes at Brandon’s Thursday, 1/10/13 signing at Books & Co in Dayton, OH.
The signing began at 7:00 PM, so I thought I’d be clever by showing up early, driving over right after I got off duty and arriving at about 4:30 PM. I figured I’d be first in line; boy, was I wrong. There were a good 26 people ahead of me, with more arriving all the time. By the time the Memory Keepers and store employees finished giving out line tickets, there were over 300 people there to meet Brandon and Harriet. Of course, that did make me feel a little better about being only #27…
The actual signing proceeded a little differently than it had the last time I had met Brandon (at his signing in Lexington following the release of Alloy of Law). We all went up in order for a first pass, allowing Brandon and Harriet to simply sign our books. Afterwards, anyone who wanted further personalization was welcome to stay and go up a second time, after Harriet had retired for the evening. Considering how many people left after the first go around, it seems that that was a pretty good idea. It made things run very smoothly. They also took all parents who had small children with them first, so that they could get home with their little ones. This was a nice move, I thought, and to their credit there was not a single complaint from among the 300+ gathered fans about having to wait for these parents (well, not that I could hear, anyway). I had no idea we WoT fans were, as a group, such a considerate bunch, especially after seeing some internet shouting matches over the years about who Demandred was, or who killed Asmodean, or whether there could be a female Dragon.
Anyway, Brandon and Harriet began with a Q&A session. I did not have a tape recorder with me, unfortunately, and I was far too overawed to be in Brandon and Harriet’s presence to think of using my smartphone for the task, so I took notes. I’m also not a professional stenographer, and don’t know shorthand. So, unless something is in quotations marks, all of these are simple reports of the gist of the question and answer, or paraphrases. Some mild spoilers for A Memory of Light and, in one case, Way of Kings follow.
Footnote
The Q&A portion of NutiketAiel's report is omitted in favor of a transcript. To compare versions, follow the source link on this report.