erin Compelled Cadsuane
by Caraline Damodred: 2003-04-04 | Not yet rated
In WH Ch 25, Verin used a form of Compulsion on Cadsuane...in Far Madding! Since Aes Sedai are cut off from the source in Far Madding, she must have a ter'angreal that either stores power or allows her to access the Source. She also was able to Delve the soulless Ogier while in a stedding, so there is precedent. (Although it is surprising she would tip her hand in that way.)
In WH Ch 25, Cadsuane asks Verin for tea. As Verin goes to prepare it, she asks Cadsuane about Alanna, Rand, and Cadsuane's plans for Rand. Cadsuane answers her, very frankly. Then...
"Closing her eyes, she rubbed her temples with her fingerstips and sighed. 'He is turning into a stone, Verin, and if he doesn't relearn that he's human, winning the Last Battle may not be much better than losing....' Her hands dropped onto the embroidery hoop on her lap. 'I seem to be in a confiding mood tonight. Unusual for me. If you ever finish pouring that tea, I may confide some more.'
"'Oh, yes; of course.' Hastily filling a second cup, Verin slipped the small vial back into her pouch unopened. It was good to be sure of Cadsuane at last."
The vial was presumably the sleeping medicine/poison that Verin got from Sorilea. She had it out and ready to use BEFORE Cadsuane gave her an answer. How did she know Cadsuane would answer, given that Cadsuane does not typically confide her motives to anyone? Plus, Cadsuane's rubbing her temples suggests a headache, perhaps brought on by Verin's weave. Verin could get away with this because Cadsuane would have been unable to see the weaves or sense channeling because they were in Far Madding.
This suggests that Verin has resources (and motives) that are beyond the scope of her contemporaries. But, since she seems to approve of Cadsuane's motives (or at that very least they do not interfere with her own plans), she is willing to let her live. I don't know what Verin is up to, but I just don't think she is Black Ajah.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-04-11
The major problem I have with this idea is the fact that the compulsion Verin uses seems to function only on those in a bad mental state. She is able to manipulate them, and it seems quite involved. Now the whole headache thing is a bit strange, could it be a possibility that Verin was probing Cadsuane to see how she would react...maybe. It would be fun to find out that Verin does have a ter'angreal...has Jordan pointed out any type of jewelry she wears? Verin would know about all sorts of ter'angreal considering her interests.
2
jason wolfbrother: 2003-04-11
The only jewelry Verin wears is the turtle brooch which is actually an angreal. Cadsuane remarks on this when she notices Sorilea give Verin the vial. Verin had the vial out to use if Cadsuane gave a different answer or no answer at all. She put the vial away unused because Cadsuane had she was trustworthy. Verin's form of compulsion only works on those in an extremely vulnerable state and Cadsuane is clearly not vulnerable to channeling. Plus she has ter'angreal that let her know when someone is channeling and would react. I think she has a headache for the same reason that every other Aes Sedai has one. Rand! :)
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Anubis: 2003-04-12
Verin's compulsion was just that. compulsion. she may not be the most skilled, but she certainly didnt need them to be in a weak emotional state... it just helped and verin did it to the camp aes sedai because she had a lot to do and she needed to do a good job. about cadsuane confiding in verin, this strikes me as being not cadsuane like. it could be rand ta veren ness acting to save cadsuane, or it could be that cadsuane knows more about verin then we do and is... manipulating? forming a tenative alliance? feeling her out? something like that.
4
Callandor: 2003-04-12
But Verin doesn't know Compulsion she just knows a rougher similar way of getting the same result as Compulsion.
5
Anubis: 2003-04-13
Just because someknows compulsion doesnt make them Graendal. its not an instant you controll them completely weave, there are variations and it takes skill to master. garendel has mastered compulsion, she knows the subtile and complete forms. (correct me if im wrong, i dont have the BWB, but she was a psycoligst and presumably used minor compulsion to help people with things like phobias)
verin is someone who pieced together compulsion by interviewing novices that knew little tricks. this does not make her a master. she weaves and it works, but it is not perfect. this also does not mean that it is not compulsion.
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Dorindha: 2003-04-13
I think Verin's "compulsion" does need the person to be in some way weak/open to it, and it certainly needs some time to do it - and wouldn't Cadsuane notice than Verin was chanelling at her?! ALso, if Verin was chanelling in Far Madding, the guardian would have noticed and the street guards would have come running, as when Nynaeve used the well. On the other hand, if Verin does have some kind of well, this might be the clue to why she is under an order of arrest in Far Madding...
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WinespringBrother: 2003-04-14
It's actually a lily brooch, not a turtle brooch.
"Verin was wearing a flowered brooch on her simple bronze-colored dress, the first jewelry Cadsuane had ever seen on her aside from her Great Serpent ring. "
And Cadsuane was wearing a well (the hummingbird), so it is possible she could detect channeling (theoretically anyway). Also, don't victims of compulsion generally show symptoms of amnesia during their loss of control? Cadsuane should have been unaware of her lowering her defenses if that was the case. Unless that is the "subtlety part" of the weave, where it released quickly so that there are no lasting effects.
Also, trust is important in the weave that Verin uses. Also it seems to take some time and effort to cast her weave, and she was only there a couple of minutes at most when Cadsuane started talking. It seemed like the vial was going to be Verin's first plan, maybe to weaken Cadsuane enough for the compulsion.
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Dorindha: 2003-04-15
I didn't make it clear before but Cadsuane would definitely notice if Verin channelled - saidar channellers can see the weaves and the glow of someone holing the power! Therefore Cadsuane would see any channelling with her eyes, let alone any angreal, and she is not expecting Verin to channel at her. When Verin is using her compulsion on the prisoners, they think she is healing them, so they are expecting to see channelling.
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Brainchz: 2003-04-15
"Of course the thing was not truly Compulsion as ancient texts described it. The weaving went with painful slowness, cobbled together as it was, and there was that need for a reason. It helped a great deal if the object of the weave was emotionally vulnerable, but trust was absolutely essential. Even catching someone by surprise did no good if they were suspicious."
Here's the quote from the book that proves Verin didn't use compulsion. Her version required trust from the victim. Cadsuane did not put herself into a position of trust with Verin, such as healing would require and there was not enough time for Verin to perform her version of compulsion. If she knew a better way she would have used it with the AS in the Aiel camp and not risked detection.
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The Leveler: 2003-04-15
Even a Well shows up on the Gaurdians. Verin's compulsion and Compulsion period also didn't work very well on those with a strong will a.k.a. "Cadsuane". So Verin probably planned to poison Cadsuane if she (Verin) thought cadsuane was Black. because it was also saying that she was glad to be sure of Cadsuane.
11
silverwolf: 2003-06-14
I think that Verin decided not to poison Cadsuane (although her intention may have been to simply...incapacitate...Cadsuane rather than to kill her) because of what Cadsuane said.
"'He is turning into a stone, Verin, and if his doesn't relearn that he's human, winning the Last Battle may not be much better than losing....'"
I think that Verin chose not to poison Cadsuane because Cadsuane indicated that she wants to do what is necessary to keep Rand human (i.e.: keep him "down to earth"). Of course, this argument only works if you believe that Verin is not Black Ajah.
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Aiel Finn: 2005-02-18
Could Cadsuane have been made to tell Verin by a Ta'vern twisting? She says that she can't belive that she was so open to Verin, and Verin's compulsion uses more than enough power to appear on the guardians, so I don't think she could have channeled. The poision that Verin had was the "sleeping potion" that Soriela gave her. The amount that Verin had would have killed Cadsuane. I think that the pattern saved Cadsuane because Rand needed her. Her rubbing her temples is probably a mixture of stress and the weird feeling of being pushed by the pattern.
