he First Age
by Flinn: 2003-08-04 | Not yet rated
This may have already been done but too bad.
I say that the time we live in, 2003 and so on, is the First Age of the Wheel of Time, not the very first, mind you, but with rands age as the Third, that makes the AoL the Second, and I believe our time would be the First.
In tEotW Thom talks about stories from before the AoL, materese mother of the ind, for example, sounds a lot like Mother Teresa of India. The trolloc tribe names are remarkably similar to words we have, like dha'vol (devil). Also, the races of people are alot like the ones we have today, as are some of their customs.
My second reason is what was in the AoL. I think it was moghedian who talked about all the wonders. Guns, planes, lightbulbs, space shuttles, and yet the could channel.
I say that in our time, somebody somehow found the source and used the Power, becoming Tamyrlin, and that started the AoL. Tamyrlin taught others to channel and they quickly came to political power. all the nations were consolidated, a new tongue came from the old ones, and voila new age. we know the rest of the story.
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-08-09
It would appear that you have made a correct assumption. Here is a quote that might prove your point
<br>TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 20 - Winds Rising
<br>"There isn't time between sunrise and sunset for one man to fight a hundred duels, girl." She almost stopped him short- girl! She was Daughter Heir of Andor, not girl-but he had the bit in his teeth. "And that is only a thousand years back. Go back further, back to the oldest tales I know, from the Age before the Age of Legends. Did Mosk and Merk really fight with spears of fire, and were they even giants? Was Elsbet really queen of the whole world, and was Anla really her sister?"
<br>But, I would suggest that the First Age ended in a huge world war that changed the dynamics of the world and nature, and children, in the beginning of the second age were born with the ability to channel. I don't think we know enough to say whether or not channeling was a First or Second age thing.
2
Particleman: 2003-08-09
Thom doesn't say which age they cme from....only that they are old stories...but there are others...from EOTW..
"Tell us about Lenn, who flew two the moon in the belly of an eagle of fire"...and "Salya , who walked among the stars" ( John Glenn and Sally Ride )
RJ has metioned before that we are part of the Wheel
3
Anubis: 2003-08-09
maybe channeling ended the first age...
**attempts to embrace saidin**
damn, not today.
4
Vaughn882: 2003-08-09
i think our age might be even further back than that though. Weren't the portal stones created before the AoL? And we haven't created any portal sones (hehe). I agree there was probably some kind of catastrophic event between the first and second ages.
5
Jiana: 2003-08-09
Are you ready for some serious rambling? I have always had the idea that channeling had to do with tapping into some sort of magnetic field or force. I don't know enough about physics and science to prove my point though. Perhaps the catastrophe that Tam mentioned caused some sort of electromagnetic balance to shift, enabling men and women with certain characteristics (or chromosomes, if you will) to channel. Told you, it's serious rambling. :)
6
Rhodric: 2003-08-10
advanced quantum theory states that reality is not made up of matter and space, but is made up of 'information' that we understand by the language of wavefunctions.
this 'information system' permeates all matter and space, exists everywhere. sounds to me like the power (or the force);p
all that has to be done is to understand reality in this way, and to manipulated it with our minds/bodies instead of with machines and equations.
then we could channel.
but it is of course a pipe dream.
7
solomonrex: 2003-08-11
We've got to be farther back than that- we have no TAR, Ogier and completely different continents, and plate tectonics take quite a bit of time.
8
Rhodric: 2003-08-11
well ~coughs, grunts~ just because we cannot access TAR don't mean it aint'ent there.
and actually i thought geographically we looked kinda similar (hehe we aussies are the island of madmen). also the world (oTW) looks how it does now because of the breaking, we don't need tectonic shifting.
quite silly. no-one can channel (Yogis? i seen a man fit in a small box. was that the OP?.)
9
Rhuark: 2003-08-12
Haha thats exactly what I thought Rhodric. The name fits well.
I just hope we get some action down at The Island of Madness and see everyone riding around in kangaroo pouches, throwing boomerangs at each other and wrestling crocodiles!haha. :)
Hey thats an idea. Maybe back in this First Age there was a massive drought or something in Australia and the only people who could survive the rugged and harsh land was Steve Irwin the Crocodile Hunter and his wife. They then restarted the population Adam & Eve style thus creating an Isle of Madness where everyone runs around like a di*khead in the bush and pokes wild and dangerous animals with sticks!
10
Dorindha: 2003-08-12
It's getting a bit literal - RJ can borrow as much as he wants from the RW!
I think the 1st age is the representation of our world - Thom remarks on how old those stories are, so I doubt they could go further back. There is nothing that has been lifted "straight" from the RW into the books, everything has an added Jordan twist.
On a side note, does anyone think that there is anything especially significant about the 1st age being the 1st, or even that something especially big occurs at the end of the 7th?
11
Anubis: 2003-08-14
after listening to the interviews i think RJ just did things like this to make a point about how stories change over time.
12
Rhodric: 2003-08-14
Dorindha asked:
**On a side note, does anyone think that there is anything especially significant about the 1st age being the 1st, or even that something especially big occurs at the end of the 7th?**
i wrote a theory once that Tam never posted, with all sorts of stuff about first age.
i mentioned that the 1st age meant the 1st age of channelling. (somebody once said a man known as Tamyrlin was the 1st channeller, i thought this was the First age).
13
Shadow Bane: 2003-08-16
C'mon guys we cant be the first age!
1. Where is like..everything we ever invented? they ride horses, have no indoor plumbing....
2. we have no ogier or T'A'R (yes it might exist but where are the bloody dreamers?) No wolfbrothers, wolves are no more intelligent than other dogs, No grolm and those other things,no OP, no DO, the list just keeps going.
No we are not before TWOT but after it. We are constantly told of how things are the same but different every turning. Couldn't all those old stories be 'real' and the stories we know be of the 'same' people/things the next time around?
14
Dorindha: 2003-08-16
Shadow Bane, that's the point - in Rand's visions in the ter'angreal from the age of legends, forsaken stories and info in the BWB there are plenty of things which could be thought of as modern technology, with the added bonus of the one power. Things that are probably planes and cars (jo-cars) are mentioned, and what about the "call box"? Also, when the war of the power broke out they had something like guns and tanks.
My earlier point was that it should not be taken too literally, but it is very likely that RJ has sneaked in stuff from our world, and then makes it seem completely fantastical to the people of Randland present. The breaking acted something like a nuclear holocaust - it destroyed almost all that was "known", and the world reverted to a more primitive set-up (admittedly not as extreme as nuclear holocaust but you get the idea) and "modern" technology had to start again. This kind of blackout of knowledge is what Rand is trying to prevent with his schools.
15
Particleman: 2003-08-17
There's no reason to belive RJ would not include "our age" in the wheel, it makes the story more interesting, but I am thinking we are more around the sixth age due to the missing portal stones. of course they could be a product of science "made at/near the end of our age.
In our age various versions of the Whitecloaks are the dominant religion and Shai'tan (Satan) has little or no real power so he is re-sealed and nearly forgotten.
Only myths and legends of magic (Tamyrlin = Merlin) and magical creatures (pixies, faeries, etc.) remain
16
Jalt Varyd: 2003-10-24
Vaughn882 said "Weren't the portal stones created before the AoL? And we haven't created any portal sones (hehe)." Not yet, but wait 'till my order arrives from the quarry and we'll see about that...
However, it would also take a major philosophical shift to change from our time to Rand's. The only real differences in religion in that time are that some people (Whitecloaks, etc.) think all channeling is Evil and those who do it serve the DO. Aside from that it's just a question of who's going to win. Maybe now is 7, discovery of Channeling begins 1, and unification of religion begins 2? This would help explain the lack of war in the Age of Legend.
17
Cor Shan: 2003-10-25
I concurr Jalt, but not for the causes.
So IMHO:
Seventh Age: Today
1st: WolfBro Age, ect.
2nd: AOL
3rd: Randland
4th: Age after Randland
5th: I think that channeling is lost here, Pre Ice age
6th: Ice age to whenever.
[Feeds all emotion to flame, forming void. Looks for tainted light, pure light, finds nothing.] So close that time! *Looks at Te'a'Vee Ter'angeal* d'oh.
18
Turandil: 2004-04-18
Yeah, maybe. I guess that the 7th or maybe the first age ended with maybe a nuclearwar between USA and USSR (Mosk = Moscow, Merk = America, spears of fire = nuclear missiles), maybe the nuclear blasts somehow opened a way to access the one power, and maybe also resulted in some mutations creating ogier, whatever.
Somehow the world after the apocalypse united under the chanellers lead by the amyrlin and the tamyrlin and the world grew into a very peaceful place and war was totaly forgotten. Then Mierin and Beidomon drilled the bore discovering Shai'tan and many turned to the dark side in hope of eternal life, whatever. The evil forces tried to conquer the world and Lews Therin and Bel'al rediscovered the art of swordfighting. But why swordfighting? Didnt they have the technology to invent guns? One of the forsaken (moghedien?) suggests that in the second age they hade some kind of weapon that reached miles, artillery i guess. So why invent swordfighting? That must be quite crappy.
I dont know what happens in fifth age, maybe Aginor is recurected and creates dinosaurs eating everyone up, then the meteor strikes the earth and booooom...Maybe the access to the one power is sealed in this great blast.
Then in the 6th age or something like that, humans that survived the meteor ultrablast began hunting hairy s'redit and making fire and stuff.
19
Lauric: 2004-08-06
I vaguely remember Be'lal mentioning the "sport" of swordfighting (fencing) and that Rand remembers it. So I believe in the AoL, Blademasters were athletes, in a sense.
As for what happened to Channeling and why we don't remember/can't use it. Hypothetically, lets say I go up to Grandpappy tomorrow and say "Hey, I found this neat thing where I can do stuff with my mind and create things!" He's think I was nuts. Besides which, those with the spark in born that didn't end up dying from the first time they touched the source, wouldn't realize what they did and would have noone to tell them what they did, so they wouldn't know it.
**Disclaimer: I'm not crazy enough to think we can channel :) I'm just describing how it would apply us to the WoT**
-empties his mind of everything but a single flame...
20
Saldean Farm Boy: 2004-08-09
I have always heard the Wheel of Time described as a seven spoked wheel, with each spoke representing an age. Now what represents an age? We have recorded history of greater than 2,000 years. We have evidence of civilization dating back thousands more. Since it is so obvious that RJ uses many of our legends to create his world it would seem that he has fit us into some age on the wheel. Maybe at some point what ever it is that creates the stedding covers the whole world for an age. That way channling can be forgotten and then "rediscovered" when the steddings go away. I wonder if RJ has an outline of what happens in each age?
21
Callandor: 2004-08-09
**Since it is so obvious that RJ uses many of our legends to create his world it would seem that he has fit us into some age on the wheel.**
Everyone thinks that there is an Age where "we" exist. No. "We" are spread out through all the Ages (at least the AoL and Third Age) as influences that have been twisted.
If you didn't know any better, you would think that Cairhien was totally fabricated by RJ. No. Influences of French, and some Japanese. The noblewomen's fashions seem to be somewhat reminiscent of the clothing from the Eighteenth century; high curled coiffures, full wide skirts and ruffs of lace. The Court of Louis XIV was called the Court of the Sun King. Cairhienin symbology is all about the sun, i.e. Sun Palace, Sun Throne. Furthermore, the prevalence of Daes Dae'mar calls to mind the lethal intrigues at the Court of Versailles (Affair of the Poisons, anyone?). The officers and noblemen wear con on their backs, small pennants attached to a short staff, which were also seen in feudal Japan. Japan is the "Land of the Rising Sun," Cairhien is the "Hill of the Golden Dawn," and its symbol is a rising sun.
Can anyone miss the link between Andor and Great Britain? The honorable queendom evokes Elizabethan England specifically with its "Cult of the Queen." A few of the names of the noble houses seem to be lifted from Welsh mythology, specifically in the Mabinogion (e.g. House Arawn). The names of the current Royal Family are deeply steeped in Arthuriana, (e.g. Morgase [Morgause], Elayne [Elaine], Gawyn [Gawain]).
Aes Sedai organization is based on the way convents were organized between 1000 and 1800 AD (RJ specifically said that one). Also, the Aes Sedai seem to have an "ecclesiastical" hierarchy, with the Hall of the Tower and the Amyrlin Seat being similar in nature to the College of Cardinals and the Pope. The current split in the Tower and election of two Amyrlins is similar to the Great Schism of the Roman Catholic Church (1378-1415), when two Popes claimed authority over the Church.
There are examples of this for every country and culture.
Our history is the basis for all the other ones from brief tidbits.
22
talera: 2004-08-09
Dorindha said -
'There is nothing that has been lifted "straight" from the RW into the books.'
What about lifts? Alviarin was complaining about climbing all the stairs in the WT, especially since Mesaana had told her about lifts.
One other thing in WoT rang a bell for me; a comment about the "standing flows" that were in the AoL. These sound very similar to "ley lines" - lines of power supposed to have existed in druidic lore.
I definitely think RJ has used the RW as one of the Ages, but I'm not too sure if it's the first Age. I don't think there's enough info available on the other Ages (apart from the AoL of course) to say wtih any certainty which Age the RW belongs to.
