1
Tamyrlin: 2003-09-06
I understand what you are suggesting, I think. In other words, a great big pool of saidin would allow any channeler, no matter how powerful, to burn themselves out, lacking a limiting agent. I would suggest two additional reasons the pool was made. First, to act as a pure buffer to the tainted seal that it surrounded, protecting the seals, through the one seal it surrounded, from breaking due to the taint over three thousand years. Second, the creators of this pool, or one of them, had the prophetic gift of prophecy, and was able to discern the need of the Dragon in the following age. Just some thoughts.
2
Callandor: 2003-09-06
**TITLE: Eye of the World
CHAPTER: 51 - Against the Shadow
The flash faded, and he was alone in the chamber with Ba'alzamon. Ba'alzamon's eyes burned like the Pit of Doom, but he shied back from the sword as if it truly were the Light itself. "Fool! You will destroy yourself! You cannot wield it so, not yet! Not until I teach you!"**
Rand most likely sent himself to Tarwin's Gap by pure chance; he says away and being in TAR he was moved to Tarwin's Gap (could've also been LTT playing a hand too).
But I agree with Tam, the Eye was made for the Dragon by the Foretelling of the Aes Sedai Deindre, but it was also created to keep the seal that was inside (or however it was kept) whole.
But due to the Ishamael quote, I don't think there was a sky limit that anybody can channel. You could burn your self out, it's just that Rand was strong enough as a wilder to be able to use it.
But Moiraine implies/says that the whole WT couldn't make a spoonful of pure saidar... so that seems to be really powerful; so I'm kinda undecided now :).
3
rubbernilly: 2003-09-08
I've got a couple of random thoughts...
1) About the Eye protecting the Seal, or all of the Seals through the one... If it truly protected it, then why were the seals so quickly weakened after the Eye was drained? If the taint had that sort of rotting effect of the cuendillar *and* the seals were protected during the time that one of them was submerged in the Eye, then we are left with the explanation that their decline was very rapid. Most likely, this began right at the time of the sealing with the backlash. Guess who had the seals then? A bunch of madmen running around who probably did not have a great care regarding the seals.
Bottom line: to say that the Eye protected the seal from degrading due to the taint is to say that the degradation came on suddenly, either before the Eye was made (at the backlash) or after the Eye was emptied, or both. Any way that you slice that, you are left with the fact that if the degradation was THAT severe, the sealing was not really that big of an event. The DO was months away from sweeping it away like so much wet tissue paper.
Personally, I buy that the Eye did not protect the Seal from saidin-induced degradation, but from someone actually physically messing with what the AS of the day knew would be a weakened Seal. They knew they couldn't stop the degradation, but they knew that the saidin would keep unlucky finders-of-the-seal from touching it unless they could channel.
2. The Eye as an angreal?... interesting, but then what is Aginor doing? You suggest he is looking to usurp Ishy, or that perhaps he is looking to free the DO and so gain his favor... but what is he doing? He is giving himself new flesh (and wouldn't Nynaeve/Flinn *love* to get a handle on that little trick of healing). He is emptying the Eye, and so - logic would say - emptying the multiplicative, angreal-type effects that the Eye would have on his channeling ability. As the Zen saying goes, you never stand in the same river twice. What flows by you is lost. What Aginor channels is gone. He can't suck it up from the Eye and hold it until he faces Ishy or the DO.
So, while I find the notion that the Eye could magnify the channeling ability of the user, I don't think that Aginor's actions are consistent with the motives you have described.
3. So we are left wondering, why the Eye, when Aginor has untainted Saidin at his fingertips. There has to be something special about the Eye compared to what he could cast without, oh, say, having to be in the presence of the Dragon Reborn? As I see it, there are two avenues that explanations of the Eye's importance can take:
a. In what it could do
b. In what it protected, or what it ensured by its existence
The first, (a), deals with what is suggested by this theory, and most of that I do not agree with. However, (b) leaves us with just as many questions. For instance, if the Eye was important because it protected important things (horn, seal, & banner), then why would Aginor care that Rand was channeling a bit of it as well? That would have emptied the Eye all the quicker.
The fact is that the scene at the Eye is not well supported by character motivations, mostly because said motivations are not defined. It is clear that Ishy wished the Eye to be blinded, and manipulated Rand (the Fisher King) into doing that for him. Fine. If Ishy's ultimate motivation here were the only one left a mystery, there would not be so much of a problem. We would have a powerful artifact (the Eye) that the Light meant for one use and that the Shadow was trying to twist and put to another use. But obviously there is more going on. Aginor has other designs than Ishy, which means that we question everything. Did Ishy have the whole story? Is his plan still moving forward despite Aginor's involvement? Was Aginor on to some plan better than Ishy's? And what was that other plan? Now, that we've raised the question about what the Shadow was trying to do with the Eye, what was the Dragon Reborn supposed to do with it?
Oh, that's right. This was the end of book one, and no one knew if the book would sell. RJ needed a climactic battle with the DO (albeit really Ishy, we didn't know that then), even if it wasn't really supported by events/motivations. Once the book sells... enter RJ, looking the part of a queen, regally proclaiming events at the eye were more complicated than Rand vs. the DO, and that we all, as good subjects, should forget what happened there and try not to make sense of it.
14 more books would take care of that for us. Or... would they?
4
Callandor: 2003-09-08
**He is giving himself new flesh (and wouldn't Nynaeve/Flinn *love* to get a handle on that little trick of healing).**
But Aginor was bad at Healing :).
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**TITLE: Crown of Swords, CHAPTER: 36 - Blades
"I have no Talent for Healing," Dashiva said, twisting his mouth wryly. "You're the one who took my suggestion and learned."**
5
rubbernilly: 2003-09-09
True, but he was a scientist... the AoL version of a geneticist, right? He created most of the shadowspawn that we presently have?
Perhaps this form of "healing" is not "healing" as "healing" is known, but he was doing something there along those lines.
6
Rhodric: 2003-09-10
i always thought that Dashivaginor was lying when he said he had no talent for healing. wasn't Aginor the most skilled scientist in the realm of biology, ie. didn't he know more about all the molecules of a human body than anyone else?
i expect that Aginor used the power to learn all of that body stuff, kinda like delving. isn't delving closely linked to healing?
i think he was lying to keep a low profile, and really he gave hints to Flinn on how to heal.
about the Eye, the whole first book has stuff in it which doesn't make sense; Thom's flash of blue light, the Trip to Tarwin's gap etc. I think the whole eye of the world prophecy was rather weak, doesn't quite fit in the WotW, like some other stuff from the first book.
7
Callandor: 2003-09-10
**TITLE: Path of Daggers, CHAPTER: 2 - Unweaving
He was about to turn away when the outlines of the gateway suddenly began to flex and tremble. Transfixed, he watched until the opening simply—melted. He had never been a man to give way to obscenities, but several rose in his mind. What had the woman done? These barbarous rustics offered too many surprises. A way to Heal being severed, however imperfectly. That was impossible! Except that they had done it. Involuntary rings. Those Warders and the bond they shared with their Aes Sedai. He had known of that for a long, long time, but whenever he thought he had the measure of them, these primitives revealed some new skill, did something that no one in his own Age had dreamed of. Something the pinnacle of civilization had not known! What had the girl done?**
Moridin calls it Healing and he is from the AoL. :)
8
rubbernilly: 2003-09-11
Callandor -
Who are you answering with that quote? We are not talking about Severing. To my understanding of this thread, we are only talking about how whatever Aginor did at the eye relates to Healing... and obviously he did not Heal severing there. He healed himself... something that the modern AS think is impossible.
Someone also mentioned Delving, but as that has little to do with Healing severing I don't see how that applies to your quote, either.
Unless you think someone was arguing that Aginor would not have called what he did healing because they would have had a different word for it in the AoL... then your quote of an AoL-er calling it Healing would make sense. But I don't think that anyone was arguing that.
I think that people are arguing 1 of 2 things, separate or in collusion:
1) Aginor lied about his ability to heal (as Dashiva)
2) Since modern AS believe it impossible to Heal yourself, that perhaps what Aginor did was *not* Healing, even though what Moridin sees in un-Severing someone (a completely unrelated event/activity) he calls Healing.
Aginor knows what 'healing' is, and the meaning is probably not all that different from the AoL (after all, according to the latest interview, the language changed so much during the intervening time that the Bore was sealed that the Forsaken had to relearn the language on their release). Therefore, the word 'Healing' as it is used in this Age is the only meaning that it could have... i.e., Aginor *must* have used that meaning when he said that he had no skill there. So, as mentioned above, he was either lying or what he did was something other than Healing.
9
Callandor: 2003-09-11
I was giving proof that the AoLers themselves think of Healing as Healing.
The severing part was just one of the mentions I could think of on the spot.
Aginor might have lied about not being good at Healing since he said it "wryly", but we really don't know for sure weather to create Trollocs requires a Talent in Healing or in something else (maybe more similar to Egwene's Talent with metals and a touch of Healing, but we don't know).
As for what he did, I have no clue, but I don't think it was a weave because Rand didn't see it get formed, and you cannot Heal yourself (major bummer there :(). So, to me, it was probably a re-exposure to pure saidin that did it (although why it was THAT saidin is a big riddle to me), and really the passage seems to imply this:
**TITLE: Eye of the World, CHAPTER: 51 - Against the Shadow
Suddenly he felt something, saw it, though he knew it was not there to see. A glowing rope ran off from Aginor, behind him, white like sunlight seen through the purest cloud, heavier than a blacksmith's arm, lighter than air, connecting the Forsaken to something distant beyond knowing, something within the touch of Rand's hand. The rope pulsed, and with every throb Aginor grew stronger, more fully fleshed, a man as tall and strong as himself, a man harder than the Warder, more deadly than the Blight. Yet beside that shining cord, the Forsaken seemed almost not to exist. The cord was all. It hummed. It sang. It called Rand's soul. One bright finger-strand lifted away, drifted, touched him, and he gasped. Light filled him, and heat that should have burned yet only warmed as if it took the chill of the grave from his bones. The strand thickened. I have to get away!**
Sine the cord pulses, I would take that to be Aginor drawing on the Eye, and he gets stronger with every pulse, but he never weaves anything with it that we see at that point.
**TITLE: Eye of the World, CHAPTER: 51 - Against the Shadow
Rand did not move, and neither did the Forsaken, yet they fought as surely as if they grappled in the dust. Sweat beaded on Aginor's face, no longer withered, no longer old, that of a strong man in his prime. Rand pulsed with the beating in the cord, like the heartbeat of the world.**
So, what was it? To me, just saidin and some effect; other then that I haven't the faintest idea.
10
Rand-althor: 2003-09-11
What about this, the power prolongs your life (assuming Saidin does it the same way as Saidar). When Aginor gets unbound, he notices that he has almost completely lost all somblace of a man, because of time still affecting him even though he was in the seal. He thinks that theoretically, the one power, since it can slow time, can possably restore his flesh, but the curent day Saidin does not work, possably because of the taint being on it, even though it is filtered out by the DO, it won't work. Therefore, he needs the eye, as a source of pure Saidin in order to get his flesh.
11
Elder Haman: 2003-09-11
I think this arguement about Aginor healing himself with the Eye is alot of nonsense- RJ is trying to depict Rand's confusion as he (Rand) is struggling to comprehend new senses that he hasn't had to use before. Aginor's "healing" isn't because Aginor's body was really healing, but a way for Rand to translate the new sense he had of Aginor's growing power- ie it's a metaphor that Rand's mind is creating because Rand doesn't really know how to use the Power conciously. (Similar to how Nynaeve was sensing a storm that wasn't a storm). Rand took these new sensations and translated tham into something his mind understood.
This whole scene is full of this kind of hazy metephoric imagery, because it's written from the perspective of Rand who's so confused he's bordering on losing conection to reality. (ie His pre-conceived world has suddenly been forced to confront a truth that his preconceptions cannot explain).
The question is still: What did Aginor plan to do with all this power? My ideas are only speculation based on what I know of Aginor's motives.
1) He wanted to be Nabaiels (sp?)
2) He rejected Ishmael's plan
3) He wanted to kill Rand (in order to advance his achievement of the first goal.
Therefore I speculated on what else he needed to do to achieve that first goal of becoming the Dark One's Supreme toady. I came up with:
A) Kill Ishmael
B) Free the Dark One
But I'm open to any other ideas that meet the criteria.
12
rubbernilly: 2003-09-12
Elder Haman - look, *something* physical happened to Aginor. Many people at the Eye saw him as a bone-withered, decayed corpse of a man, then he got new flesh.
There is no metaphor in what physically happens to him... at least none that goes so far so as to invalidate what we are told happens to him physically.
1) *Something* happened to Aginor physically. Is it healing? If so he lied later - no big deal. However, that does mean that this would be a trick that Nynaeve would *love* to get out of him. If it isn't healing, but something else (closely related), then he did not lie, but we are left wondering what it was.
And, sorry, I don't buy the 'contact' with untainted saidin theory. That is unsupported by the rest of the rules of RJ's system of magic
2) *Something* is happening to all of that saidin Aginor was channeling. He cannot have held on to it for later, thinking that he would challenge Ishy, or bring the DO prison down. Whatever he planned on doing with it he was doing as he channeled. Because of this, I don't buy the challenging Ishy theory (as well, Ishy hadn't been promoted yet), although I suppose that he could have been doing something remotely to try to free the dark one.
Still, what we are left with is a ham-fisted scene written by a writer not totally assured on the details of his system of magic. Details are glossed over and rendered incorrectly compared to what the system developed into.
Oh, and I don't agree that Rand would have not seen the weave that Aginor used to heal himself. He saw the rope of what Aginor was channeling, so why not the weave, too? He might not have known what Aginor was doing, but he might have seen it anyway. But I still like the idea of Aginor channeling a weave that gave him new skin over the idea that contact with saidin gave him new skin or that his new skin was a metaphor.
13
Callandor: 2003-09-12
I don't think that Aginor wanted to kill Rand, he speaks too calmly of letting him live:
**TITLE: Eye of the World, CHAPTER: 50 - Meetings at the Eye
"You will learn," Aginor said, "if you want to live. Now that I have found what I need" - his eyes went to the stone archway - "I may take the time to teach you."**
However, it might have been able to fit into his plans.
**TITLE: Eye of the World, CHAPTER: 51 - Against the Shadow
"Ba'alzamon will give rewards beyond mortal dreaming for the one who brings you to Shayol Ghul. Yet my dreams have always been beyond those of other men, and I left mortality behind millennia ago. What difference if you serve the Great Lord of the Dark alive or dead? None, to the spread of the Shadow. Why should I share power with you? Why should I bend knee to you? I, who faced Lews Therin Telamon in the Hall of the Servants itself. I, who threw my might against the Lord of the Morning and met him stroke for stroke. I think not."**
But to me, Aginor wanted to either free the DO or just out and out kill Ishy.
14
Callandor: 2003-09-13
**TITLE: Crown of Swords, CHAPTER: 38 - Six Stories
Mat wondered whether she might be ill. He rather enjoyed seeing Nynaeve dropped a peg or six, but she hardly ever let it last two breaths. Aes Sedai could not Heal themselves.**
15
rubbernilly: 2003-09-15
Exactly, Callandor...
so either what Aginor was doing was something other than the weave that both AoL-ers and modern channelers alike would have called "Healing," *OR* the notion that AS cannot heal themselves is flawed.
Either way, it is a trick that Nynaeve (and other healers) would love to get her hands on.
16
Callandor: 2003-09-15
Or there could be another explaination other then a Healing weave :).
17
Cor Shan: 2003-09-18
The forsaken _feel_ the taint, forget which quote or book (end of TSR or start of FoH, Asmo to Rand). it justs washes back when it touches them. it might still be unpleastent.
18
Callandor: 2003-09-21
**TITLE: Fires of Heaven, CHAPTER: Prologue - The First Sparks Fall
Snatching at saidin, he filled himself with the Power, the taint on the male half of the True Source rolling off the protection of his bonds and oaths, the ties to what he knew as a greater power than the Light, or even the Creator.**
But they still get pure saidin.
19
rubbernilly: 2003-09-22
Agreed, so the fact that the Eye was untainted saidin is not enough of a reason to justify what Aginor did and how he reacted to Rand.
20
golem22: 2003-10-02
It is obvious that Saidar prolongs life Perhaps saidin does the same thing? If that is the case then exposure to vast vast ammounts of pure saidin may have a rejuvinating effect?
21
Elder Haman: 2004-01-11
The fact that Aginor failed in his plan does not mean that his plan was not as I outlined. You keep arguing that Aginor couldn't "save up" the power to fight Ishmael- that's not what I'm suggesting. I think his plan was as follows:
Step 1: Kill or enslave Lews Therin (Rand)
Step 2: Travel to where Ishmael was, and kill him.
Step 3: Free the Dark One
I feel that there was probably sufficent power in the Eye for him to do all of this without any "storing" of energy.
After all, the was enough sadian in the Eye for Aginor to confront Moriane, chase Rand down, they struggle, then Rand travels to the Gap, destroys Ishmael's army, then travels to Ishmael, and kills him- all using the power from the Eye. So I figure there must have been enought for Aginor to do what he wanted to do too- It's just that Step 1 failed, Rand killed him instead of him killing Rand.
22
rubbernilly: 2004-01-12
Think of it this way.
Cyndane channels to prepare several nasty "webs" (as she calls weaves) as she approaches alivia. Once prepared, can she stop channeling?
No.
Therefore, he has to keep feeding the power into the weave she has prepared. It is the same for Aginor. Though he might have sought to kill Rand and Ishy, he could not have taken the Saidin from the Eye with him... he would have had to have continued channeling.
So, *why* the Eye?
He could have gotten pure saidin from anywhere, and he could *not* have taken this saidin with him anywhere else (to the DO, to Ishy, whatever).
He could have done as the other Forsaken did... just take advantage of sudden freedom to take cover and establish himself in the world. Had he done that, he could have gotten his new flesh without having to face Rand and without having to chance everything.
23
Elder Haman: 2004-01-12
Why would he need (or want) to take the Eye anywhere? He didn't need to take it somewhere in order to use the power. Rand jumped all the way to the Gap and then to where ever Ishmael was and Rand was still using the Eye. What are you talking about "carrying it with him" Once he was linked to the Eye he could use the Power where ever he wanted to.
Also, I don't see how Cydanne's webs come into the situation at all- except in so much as to prove that just because someone doesn't appear to be channeling something useful, doesn't mean that thay can't be preparing something for later. Maybe that's what Aginor was doing with the Power, preparing webs to trap Rand- or possibly kill Ishmael- or it may even have been some weave to free the Dark One.
24
rubbernilly: 2004-01-13
Oh, good grief.
I explain half of my point to answer someone, and someone else challenges it from the direction of the second half. So I answer that person and someone else challenges it from the direction of the first half.
So... let me try to be clear.
Aginor apparently has a purpose for using the saidin in the Eye. What is that purpose.
SOME people have claimed that he wanted to finish Ishy, or to free the DO.
In answer to that, I say that he could not have taken the saidin with him. That is, he could not have emptied the Eye and then continued to just hold the saidin he took from there. That's where the example of cyndane's weaves comes from: she doesn't just form the weaves and then stop channeling. She keeps pulling in NEW saidar and funneling it into the weaves that she has formed. The same would be true of Aginor: he could not have stood there at the Eye forming weaves and emptying the Eye, then taken those weaves with him and have them still be powered by the same saidin from the Eye. In that case, he would be channeling new, non-Eye saidin by the time he arrived wherever he was going (to Ishy or to the DO), so there would have been nothing special about the saidin from the Eye.
In other words, to be clear, why could he not have formed those weaves somewhere else (since all the saidin is the same), and then done whatever he wanted to do? Why did he have to do it in front of Rand and take that chance?
OK, to that, Elder says that Rand went all the way to Tarwin's Gap and was still channeling from the Eye.
That is fine, I acknowledge that, but I still have to ask, what was *Aginor* doing there?
Aginor was channeling from the Eye, and NOT GOING ANYWHERE. He didn't establish a link with the Eye and then go somewhere else to take out Ishy or to free the DO.
Therefore, all of that argument was simply aimed at countering the assertion that Aginor wished to use the saidin there to do some remote task. That explanation of what Aginor wanted to do does not wash, IMO.
Now, ANOTHER option for what Aginor wanted to do was made; namely, it was suggested that Aginor wanted to empty the Eye so that he could get at the Seal, Horn, and Banner that were within.
That would account for the fact that he stuck around, and that he had to stay there and face down Rand. If he hoped to take those artifacts, then he had to get them before Rand/Moiraine got a hold of them. It also explains why he had to stay: he didn't have plans to go kill Ishy, nor to free the DO.
In answer to this reasoning, I argue that Aginor's ire over Rand channeling from the Eye as well is misplaced. Why should Aginor care that Rand was emptying the Eye that much quicker? The quicker the Eye is emptied the quicker Aginor gets the artifacts. There is no real reason (short of author-apologetics) that Aginor should be so upset by Rand's channeling.
So we have now come to the third option for what people suggest Aginor was doing. Namely, that he was giving himself new flesh.
Under this theory, the saidin in the Eye was somehow different from the taint-free saidin that Aginor otherwise has access to (how, I do not see, nor do I agree, however, here is the theory). So with this special saidin, Aginor is giving himself new flesh.
From this theory comes the discussion of what Healing means. We know the following:
1) Healing has a specific meaning, referring to specific weaves that are in use now and were in use in the AoL. Both the Forsaken and the AS refer to it as the same thing, and since the language has changed from the AoL to now, the Forsaken would have chosen a different word for what the AoL version of Healing was if it was not accurately represented by the AS usage of "Healing."
2) Therefore, knowing that the AoL Healing acts the same as modern "Healing," we can safely say that the AoL channelers were similarly bound by the fact that you cannot heal yourself (something we know is true of this time period).
3) Since Aginor *cannot* be healing himself, he must have been doing something else with the weave other than Healing. It must have been a different Weaving (capital case intended there).
So, out of this argument, I made the statement, "Wouldn't Nynaeve and Flynn like to get their hands on *that* weave?"
As in, since this is a weave different from the Healing that they know, and appears to be more powerful, *and* is something that you can apparently do to yourself, wouldn't they find that VERY useful?
Wow, I'm tired of typing, but I wanted to cover all corners this time. Consider this the summation of what has been discussed on this theory thread; I just didn't want someone attacking from a corner I had left uncovered.
Note: I am not convinced that Aginor was *only* giving himself new flesh; or, I should say, I don't know that that was his purpose there at the Eye, as I do not think that there was any difference between the saidin that was in the Eye and the saidin that he had access to anyway because of the protection of the DO. There still seems to be no reason for him (and Balthamel) to be at the Eye.
That's my opinion.
25
Anubis: 2004-01-14
I dont know about the eye, it seemed to make it able for channelers to use more saidin then they could normally. And i thought of another reason for the eye. I find it kinda odd that this has not been mentioned before. In the AOL, channelers purified Saidin. They didnt purify much, and they didnt remove the taint... but this did demonstrate that the taint COULD be removed. I would imagine that rands method and the makers of the eyes method were at least similar.
26
free will: 2004-01-15
2) Therefore, knowing that the AoL Healing acts the same as modern "Healing," we can safely say that the AoL channelers were similarly bound by the fact that you cannot heal yourself (something we know is true of this time period)."
The modern AS Healing weaves are a (proper) subset of the AoL AS Healing weaves, specifically the AoL battlefield techniques. AoL AS could Heal in such a way that the energy comes from the OP, instead of the healer and healee. (Sorry no quote.) I believe that the (AoL) Restorers worked in large rings to do flesh-restoration. The battlefield weaves would kill the patients if the weave were used for flesh-restoration, but when the Power for Healing comes from the OP much more can be Healed.
If he hoped to take those artifacts, then he had to get them before Rand/Moiraine got a hold of them.
So Aginor obviously wants to use the Eye to weave a ward that keeps Rand and company away from the artifacts. Any power Rand takes is less for Restoring flesh. But also the more Rand takes, the less for the ward and the more for Rand can use to bore through the ward.
Aginor probably couldn't channel enough saidin to restore himself, since Restoration requires more OP than Healing. But once Rand enters, Aginor also needs as much saidin as possible, not just to finish the restoration without making himself exhausted, he needs to make a ward to strong enough to keep out an enhanced (by the Eye) DR.
27
rubbernilly: 2004-01-15
But why the saidin from the Eye?
Aginor could have made his ward stronger with just normal saidin. He did not have to worry about the taint. So why not make the ward and be done with it?
Besides that, I don't buy that he was making a ward at all. If it needed to be *so* strong, why worry about his own new flesh - at least for the moment? Take the saidin of the Eye and channel it all into the ward (as if channeling *more* saidin is the sole way you would make a ward stronger). Now Rand can't get to it, and Aginor can use normal saidin to Restore his flesh.
(I like that name for the weave, even if you just made it up or if it is a known weave which you may be mistakenly applying here - it works)
Anubis - I think that I have read where RJ says that Rand did not channel/clean *all* of saidin. He said that was impossible even for the Dragon Reborn. What Rand did, instead, was just get the taint *itself* to shift and run off into his trap (shadar logoth).
All he had to do was channel enough saidin to get the process started and then hold on. I envision it much like siphoning water from one container to another. You get enough pressure to draw the water through the tube, and then the suction of the water does the rest.
28
Anubis: 2004-01-16
um... i never said rand channeled all of saidin... just that the process of making the eye and clensing saidin were similar... considering also that making the eye also involved the clensing of saidin.
29
myroots: 2004-03-23
Okay, the big problem i find with the scene between rand and aginor is that rand cannot see the weaves that heal aginor. I'm not sure whether this theory is sound, but it could be that Aginor is healing himself not with the one power but with the true power. Perhaps it is impossible to heal oneself with the op but possible with the tp. any thoughts?
30
Blademaster: 2004-03-24
Perhaps, as somebody said before, the eye allows you to channel more than you could before. I think of the channeler normally as being a kind of long hose for the OP (thus channeling it) connected on one end to the OP and on the other to the world. The strength of the channeler is dependent on the amount of water he can force through the hose without it bursting. However, with the eye, you don't need the hose. You have a 'bucket' of the OP right there. You can get alot more water faster out of pouring a bucket than a hose, and without the worry about bursting the hose. this would allow either Rand to use enough OP to defeat Ishy, OR Aginor enough OP to create new flesh for himself.
On a side note, I think that what he did was not as much healing as what Elayne did when she created the stone ring ter'angreal out of nothing. You are using the OP to create something out of nothing. I would think that creating living flesh would be alot harder than dead rock, which is why Aginor required so much of the OP.
