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he big oops
by bigjellybeans: 2004-11-24 | 2.36 out of 10 (11 votes)
Previous Categories: What's Next?
He thinks the major mistake is Rand's decision to cleanse Saidin. (Yeah I know sounds crazy right), but his support to me seems pretty compelling. He says that because the taint was removed from saidin it has actually decreased the overall power of saidin itself. Now to me either the cleansing took out more of the power than Rand predicted or in the time of 3000 years since it was first tainted the male half of the one power adapted to the filth and the struggle that goes on within the chanellers body and soul provides the energy of the one power in males.
And now for my theory. The decision also comes from Rand, but it has to do with his decision to start to close off the waygates. It would seem to me that way things are going that this maneuver will turn out to be disasturous. Because look the way the source seems to be slipping a lot of weaves are starting to fail right before the chanellers eyes. And one of their most important weaves is travelling and if the problem with the source gets any worse than it already is then the travelling weave will not be useable. And because Rand decided to close off all the waygates he has just denied himself a strategic advantage. So heres not one but two theories, have at it.
Comments
Tamyrlin: 2005-02-05
Cleansing Saidin...I don't believe that can be considered horrible, no matter what happens. The taint was responsible for unimaginable sufferring over three thousand years and was instrumental in destroying the seals, allowing the DO access to the world again. Regarding your suggestion, I don't believe the waygates could be considered horrible either. Even if there wasn't another way to travel, the Black Wind seems to be rather active and powerful as of late, and I can't imagine large troop movements by the good guys making it through waygates without suffering immense casualties. My guess is the following: putting Taim in charge of the Black Tower and not addressing the issue when Logain told Rand what was happening. Rand turning his back on the Black Tower will go down as his most horrible mistake.
Dannil Lewin: 2005-02-05
Another possibility, which I've mentioned in the thread on what the Knife of Dreams refers to, is that it was the decision to enter TAR in the flesh that will have horrible consequences. That would link the horrible consequences with dreams...something else I just thought of...I think Rand began to go crazy after he entered TAR in the flesh, and Egwene began having her headaches after that as well. I know, right now it looks like Halima is causing them, and that is actually what I think, but it is possible that both Rand's madness with Lews Therin in his head and Egwene's headaches are part of the "losing a part of oneself" that the wise ones warn Egwene of when she asks if it is possible to enter TAR in the flesh.
Korell: 2005-02-05
Just a note. As has been said many times in other threads. I follow the belife that the cleansing has nothing to do with the OP failures and that Rand in anyway could use it all up. The OP is limitless and cannot be used up. If it were to be used up everything would cease to exist because the OP turns the wheel. As for the waygates i can see what you mean by this being a folly however i agree with TAM on this one in that moving alot of troops through a waygate would be disaterous. I do like the idea that Rand ignoring of the Tower will come back to haunt him. As well as the Entering the world of dreams in the flesh. I really dont know what it could be though. However i am sure i along with everyone else when we find out will go "oh so thats what it was. Yep that was a bad decission alright!" lol
Callandor: 2005-02-05
How do you reduce the "power" of the One Power? Saidin has been as strong as it always has.
As for amount, the One Power simply cannot be used up (whether that means there is an infinite "bucket" if you will of it somewhere, or if it recycles itself automatically whenever used, is another debate).
Source slipping a lot? The weaves moved before with the Bowl of the Winds effect, but that was a very local reaction and has since passed.
And the only weaves reported to be failing, are ones that are already set and tied off. Channeling a gateway and traveling through it, is perfectly fine for both male and female channelers (as seen in CoT).
Plus, since it's set weaves breaking, and only saidar ones reported (could be male weaves as well, but there are few and far between, so undetermined), leads myself to think it's a plot of the Shadow (mainly Black Ajah). But that's very much opinion, and few indirect facts.
Few ideas I have been entertaining:
1. Proof of the Eye and Seals theory.
2. There could be some problem with Mat's memories (very vague one, but I've kept it ;)).
3. I thought I had a better one that came up recently somewhere in the deep dark corners of my mind, but sadly, I cannot think of it anymore :(.
snakes-n-foxes: 2005-02-06
To me it seems that the most obvious candidate for "a horrible decision" would have been the establishment of The Black Tower.
: 2005-02-07
Ok ok, im here; the infamous "WoT fanatic colleague of bigjellybeans."
Everyone seems to not like my idea of the One Power FAILING, not running out, as my colleague mistakingly wrote. I feel that the Power has since been increasingly more "slippery" and a little more challenging to use. Channelers, both male and female, are finding it more difficult to weave, hold weaves, or tie weaves, mainly since the Cleansing. I may be wrong, but I have a big feeling that the horrible mistake has to do with the cleasing of Saidin.
Another thought of mine, which occured to me recently (just now), is that perhaps the mistake deals with Saidin a little more "out of the box." Now that the madness taint is gone and channelers wont go mad, perhaps channelers, if they lose their little power struggle in the battle to conrtol Saidin, die instead of becoming mad. Think about it. I have always believed that the madness kicked in if the male channeler ever lost his battle with Saidin. Wait wait; there is method to my madness. Those who still channel show no effects of the madess; none. Only Rand has his voice, but thats it. Taim reports that 1 in 10 (I think) channelers go mad. Perhaps that person lost his battle. I have yet to see signs of madness on any consistant channeler, such as Logain or Taim. In short, you lose your battle with Saidin, you go mad. Now my theory on the big oops is as follows: Since there is no more madness for losing the battle, if you should lose, you die.
Actually, come to think about it, that isn't so bad. The Dark One would rather have channelers go mad and destroy things then to have them die, so dying would actually be better. So scratch my second theory, it was a waste of 10 minutes, and destroy my first theory. Have at it!
Friar: 2005-02-07
I do not think that this is the major mistake. It was written from an explanation of Moriane that the source cannot be used up and she referred to the use of the source to be like a windmill in a river. The river is not used up. Also during the cleansing the taint flowed through Rand and was consumed with its evil opposite. I think that the root of any “decision that has been made in the previous books will turn out to be a horrible mistake”, will be due to the taint being involved.
Now this could refer to Rand himself as a vast amount pass through him but I think that this is a setup for the final confrontation with the DO. As to other possibilities there are the waygates, as this was made by the male halve of the tainted source but as of yet there is no evidence of this affecting Randland so the problems can only get worse within.
What is interesting is the “bowl of winds”, this changed the weather globally AND the taint formed a part of the weaving, (the male half of the source). Therefore the possibilities of corruption are in evidence. This could effect great climatic changes.
As to Mat “memories” this is another subject for another theory it is important, but I cannot see it as an answer to this theory. Maybe some can explain it to me.
Finally a question, does anyone think that the word “decision” MUST refer to an act with using the source? There could be a non-related source-decisions that maybe a horrible mistake.
a dragonburned fool: 2005-02-07
Jordan haven't mentioned "mistake", but something we thought to be good but having horrible consequences. It's different from a mistake. It could mean also that the only right thing to do nevertheless will have very high price. Very high price for the necessary thing to do is a common theme in Jordan's writtings.
As about the Cleansing, the Big Hole that happens on the place of Shadar Logoth and that grows larger and larger looks like beginning of something very very bad. It could be even some progressive self-unraveling of the pattern, something like a cancer in the earth.
And about Waygates: the ward on them was only against Shadowspawn, not against humans. So blocking the waygates will not change the situation for human travel.
Stilicho: 2005-02-07
Regarding the idea that the Black Tower will be the decision that causes dire consequences in KOD, I can't accept it at this point. Taim and the BT have ALREADY attempted to kill Rand, etc. No surprises there anyway, we've known for a while that Taim was recruiting and training new "dreadlords" for the shadow. I think, in true RJ style, it will be something that may have seemed relatively unimportant at the time, but will unexpectedly foster the "dire consequences" RJ spoke of. As for what it may be, I have no idea. I just don't think it is related to the BT or Taim.
bigjellybeans: 2005-02-07
I will bet a gold Tar Valon mark that the mistake is not the establishment of the black tower. Yes the BT does have some kinks that need to be worked out. But in the long run the forces of the light will need the male half of the source if they are going to win the war against the shadow. Not only will they need it but they wil need the tower to help train and focus the channelers into a sizeable group.
mako0424: 2005-02-07
Sorry, i dont have anything crucial to really add, but i must immediately say both logically and intuitively, that the Waygate and Cleansing SAidin theories seem ludicrous. nothing bad happened, and i cant see them coming into play too crucially, and i can easily imagine how Taim and the Creation of the black Tower could be a serious mistake, because its consequences would neccessarily seem very dire if a good one third of the BT just went Darkfriend, and had an uber-channeler like Taim leading them.
But i also like the idea of a small decision,. that seemed relatively unimportant, comes into play big time.
But does anyone think obviously, it could be the peace talks with the Seanchan and the looming imprisonment through the Sad Bracelets and Semirhage. would seem obvious, n'est pas?
Tamyrlin: 2005-02-07
I disagree bigjellybeans, while the idea of the BT is great, Rand has given over management to Taim, a darkfriend. Taim is practically building the male dreadlord army for the DO, and has used some of those channelers to attempt to kill Rand, forcing Rand into hiding. He continues to ignore Taim, and soon enough he will have to face a small army of male channelers led by Taim, trained to kill. Also, the Black Tower has caused already a huge amount of problems between Rand and Egwene, outside of the bonding issues now going on. I don't think the Black Tower itself is the issue, but his poor management of it will cause horrible problems for himself and the world in the last two books.
Flinnd: 2005-02-07
I must agree with Tamrylin on this one. I think it is rather ironic that Rand has been so focused on killing the forsaken yet is unaware of the potential-future-forsaken (a.k.a., Taim) right under his nose.
Anubis: 2005-02-07
what if entering TAR in the flesh makes Lews Therin more real? If it were to allow him to take control of Rand. That would indeed be horrible. I dont trust entering TAR in the flesh. Everyone says it has huge consequences and yet we never see them. RJ made a semi big deal about Rand entering TAR in the flesh and then just abandoned it. I think it will be coming back big time, and not neccessecairily the way i think it is.
jaellon: 2005-02-07
I don't know of any quote that mentions a "mistake" being made, but it sounds like what is being referenced is this quote from Robert Jordan, found at http://www.dragonmount.com/Books/Knife_of_Dreams:
** Something that has previously happened in the series is going to be revealed to have a terrible cost.... When you read it your reaction will be, "Gasp. How horrible!" **
The main distinction between "mistake" and "cost" is that a mistake is never the correct thing to do. A terrible cost may still involve doing the right thing. We read several times Siuan telling Egwene something to the effect of, "Do what needs done, and then pay the price."
I don't see anything involving the Black Tower or failing weaves evoking the "How Horrible!" response. It's got to be something seemingly inconsequential at the time, and not an obvious source of danger.
Some ideas:
1) Being stilled and re-healed, giving the victim reason not to curl up and die, but now facing a worse fate.
2) Pevara and Seaine freeing themselves of the oaths, then retaking them.
3) Using up the Eye of the World for a something other than it was being saved for.
4) Entering TAR in the flesh, compounded by all of Rahvin's attacks.
...hundreds more, I'm sure, any one of which could be the one with the terrible cost.
bigjellybeans: 2005-02-08
Tamyrlin is right. The black tower was left unchecked and it has breeded many channelers that will probably be turned to the dark by Taim. However not all of the male channelers in the bt show signs of turning toward the dark. And only half of the bt even are loyal to Taim in the rivalry but it does not make them darkfriends. The other half is for Logain who seems a perfectly loyal dragonsworn. This might also play in to Logain's true glory if he were to knock out Taim and become head of the black tower
Callandor: 2005-02-08
**Everyone seems to not like my idea of the One Power FAILING, not running out, as my colleague mistakingly wrote. I feel that the Power has since been increasingly more "slippery" and a little more challenging to use. Channelers, both male and female, are finding it more difficult to weave, hold weaves, or tie weaves, mainly since the Cleansing. I may be wrong, but I have a big feeling that the horrible mistake has to do with the cleasing of Saidin.**
1. All the "failings" are of set and tied off weaves -- not of anything actively being channeled.
2. All the "failings" are of saidar nature -- no male ones have been reported.
3. Elayne, Avi, Egwene, tons of Aes Sedai in Salidar, Alviarin, etc. all show that actively using a weave like a gateway hasn't been a problem at all.
Grady shows and reports no unusualness in saidin channeling when using his gateway.
**Now that the madness taint is gone and channelers wont go mad, perhaps channelers, if they lose their little power struggle in the battle to conrtol Saidin, die instead of becoming mad.**
This already happens. If a male channeler loses that battle they can become burned out purely by accident (this has almost happened to Rand a few times).
A male channeler goes mad by the taint through multiple means, but not do to losing control of saidin.
**I have yet to see signs of madness on any consistant channeler, such as Logain or Taim.**
Logain has been channeling for 6 years and seems to be the upper limit of taint resistance.
Taim is a very, very, seperate issue.
**What is interesting is the “bowl of winds”, this changed the weather globally AND the taint formed a part of the weaving, (the male half of the source). Therefore the possibilities of corruption are in evidence. This could effect great climatic changes.**
The weaves are fine; the channeler must pass through the taint to get to the pure saidin, and it used as pure saidin. Only the channeler is effected by the taint; the weaves are not.
**As about the Cleansing, the Big Hole that happens on the place of Shadar Logoth and that grows larger and larger looks like beginning of something very very bad. It could be even some progressive self-unraveling of the pattern, something like a cancer in the earth.**
That's the taint coming in contact with Shadar Logoth, and then was destroyed.
**what if entering TAR in the flesh makes Lews Therin more real?**
There's a very strong correlation between Lews Therin becoming more present, and Rand channeling more saidin and letting more taint into himself.
Aiel Finn: 2005-02-08
I believe that the only thing that entering T'A'R in the flesh does is makes one's body and soul open to being imagined with. While Rand was in T'A'R fighting with Rhavin, LTT almost took over. Rand almost became LTT. This is probably the evil that can come of it.
ranman38: 2005-02-08
I have no evidence whatsoever, yet, but I think it is gonna be either related to a balefire incidents, or, something that happened at Shadar Logoth. One or the other perhaps has caused the "ghosts"
SugarBullet: 2005-02-08
what about perrin and faile? I seem to remember people batting around the idea that in her attempt to escape and amidst the aiel man's "propositions" that ARAM actually gets to her first and out of kills her out of outrage and misguided loyalty to perrin. I forget who put that forward, but the idea seems to fit with the who idea of something that we've already been introduced to and some really terrible consequences for it.
bigjellybeans: 2005-02-08
heres another possible decision. Maybe it was when Rand decided to use Calandor on the Seanchean. Yeah the fact that they even went to war with them was reason enough but many others have gone to war with the seanchean and after they were beaten them they had to swear loyalty to the seanchean and everything seemed ok. But Rand's amazing(if uncontroled) display of power may have thrown water on an ant hill and really pissed them off. This might be the decision because it is being set up for the next book. Rand is expected to meet with the seanchean for some sort of "truce", and Mat and Tuon whom are the only bridges between the two societies are not where Rand can contact them. We do know that Rand is being decieved by the Seanchean from the getgo because they say Tuon is with them when we know she is with Mat.
So this is what I think;
Suroth (with possibly forsaken involvement for those that believe the theory that they have power in the Seanchean empire) is going to get a hold of Rand and place the male Adam on him. Because of using Calandor on them in that manner they will probably put him on another tourture fest like the AS did to him in book 6. And for those that might also believe the theory that Rand will lose an arm this might be the reason why. And I think Rand losing an arm could be considered a horrible consequence.
RogoshEagleEye: 2005-02-08
I don't think it can be going into T'A'R in the flesh because Rand did that in TDR when he was fighting Ishy. He didn't seem to be going mad in TSR.
Anubis: 2005-02-08
**As about the Cleansing, the Big Hole that happens on the place of Shadar Logoth and that grows larger and larger looks like beginning of something very very bad. It could be even some progressive self-unraveling of the pattern, something like a cancer in the earth. **
Its just a Lake, the side caved in pretty much killing that theory. Sides of holes in the pattern dont cave in as far as im concerned.
Anubis: 2005-02-09
Rand also entered TAR in the flesh to find the location of Salidar, and also to fight Rahvin. I believe fighting Rahvin to be his last time entering in the flesh.
Lemagrag: 2005-02-11
Hi. New member here. I saw this thread and had to respond.
I have been thinking about this issue, and as I re-read The Shadow Rising, a thought ocurred to me. On pages 786-7 in the paperback, just after Min's rescue of Siuan and Leane, Min thinks about the following vision:
"For a moment she let herself think of the images she had glimpsed, just for a moment, flickering around Gawyn's head. Gawyn kneeling at Egwene's feet with his head bowed, and Gawyn breaking Egwene's neck, first one then the other, as if either could be the future.
The things she saw were very rarely as clear in meaning as those two, and she had never before seen that fluttering back and forth, as though not even the viewing could tell which would be the true future. Worse, she had a feeling near to certainty that it was what she had done this day that had turned Gawyn toward those two possibilities."
Given the unusual, and if I'm not mistaken, singular nature (to the reader's knowledge) of this sort of "flickering" viewing, could it be possible that Min saving Siuan and Leane could somehow lead to Egwene's death at the hands of Gawyn?
It's just an idle thought, but I think it's a strong possibility if for no other reason that it would be quite a plot twist.
SteelBlaidd: 2005-02-11
On the lines of small things with big consiquences, I see a couple of posibilities. Firrst elayne unweaveing the gate causing the explosion combinde with the local power fluctuatins from useing the Bowl and the sidar beacon from the cleansing. This has been proposed as the cause of the upcomeing Seanchan Tower attack. Something with posibly horible consicuences. Second Elayne puting "Dollan Meller" ncharge of her guard Could also be very bad.
ScorchedEarth: 2005-02-13
Hi I'm new here also, so here are my 2 cents. On the subject of the black tower, the fact that Rand put Taim in charge in the first place is about the biggest mistake one can do. I highly doubt Jordan was referring to this as the terrible cost, however, as it's already pretty evident that he really messed up there. As for the Saidin cleansing I don't think it's possible to reduce the power of Saidin, and the waygates idea, while interesting, is also highly improbable considering only tied off weaves are failing; although both of these ideas have been mentioned before by other members.
Regarding the Seanchan, I think it's been pretty much established that Anath is Semirhage. Also, I'm not sure if the upcoming peace talks are going to be the big mistake. Peace with the Seanchan has to be made before the Last Battle as Rand definitely has to unite all the nations in order to stand a chance. Perhaps it will lead to him being captured, perhaps not, but I doubt it.
I think the true mistake, and Callandor mentioned it earlier, is that Rand used the Eye of the World at the incorrect moment. Seeing as how Aes Sedai made the ultimate sacrafice when they created the Eye and placed the Horn and Banner there, prophesizing that this would be the key to the winning the Last Battle, I think Rand really goofed up when he used it before its time.
Jiana: 2005-02-16
I do like the idea that the Eye was used beforetime. However, I also want to know why a problem with the use of the Bowl of the Winds has been dismissed? Callandor pointed out that the saidin weaves wouldn't have been touched by the taint. But maybe the taint isn't the problem there. Perhaps the problem lies with the fact that there were no males in their circle, thus no one to guide the flows of saidin as (was it Renaile?) guided the flows of saidar. If you'll remember, it was a very strenuous task for her. The Bowl drew on saidin, but just cast it out willy-nilly along with the more precise threads of saidar. I see that as potentially a very BIG problem. It could also be that, when the Bowl of the Winds is used, it is supposed to be used in conjunction with the other Bowl that is in the White Tower strongroom. Or maybe it's both. After all, they are still in deep winter, with no signs of it letting up. I think it will take a combined male/female circle, using BOTH Bowls, to correct the problem... that is, if there is one (and I believe there is), and if it can be corrected.
lurk: 2005-02-17
intersting theories. I'd like to put in my two cents.
in the age of legends al great things were done by a combination of male and female channelers. The use of the bowl of winds, an artifact (probably) from the age of legends was used by female channelers alone. I think the big mistake was that the bowl was used by female channelers alone. Probably this cused the stronger grip of the dark one on the weather. The weather change has started to create more chaos and the start of food problems. Try to unite the world when everybody starves is not going to be easy foor the light forces. It is however something the dark one can use to his advantage.
bigjellybeans: 2005-02-17
I don't think it's the use of the eye. If Rand did not use that pocket of collected saidin at that time it is highly doubtful any of the characters would have survived.
gleeman: 2005-02-18
ok, im only halfway through CoS at this time, but id like to make a comment on the posts about the OP failing and not doing what it was supposed to do.
the first occurence of this happened after elayne let a Traveling weave collapse on itself after only partly unweaving it. said first occurence was when Morr, an Asha'man, visited the site of the "explosion" he said that, "Saidin was worst there."
It might be a possibility that something easily past over and seemingly unimportant (elayne letting the weave collapse) could be the horrible decision made in a previous book.
Aiel Finn: 2005-02-18
The reason that the AM said that Sadin felt the worst there was that that was where the BoW was used. The BoW made the air seem to flicker and crackle with the power for both men and women. Elayne's letting the weave collapse just released a huge explosion like a scaled up version of what Avi said when she slipped on unweaving the knot of Air.
Callandor: 2005-02-18
**the first occurence of this happened after elayne let a Traveling weave collapse on itself after only partly unweaving it. said first occurence was when Morr, an Asha'man, visited the site of the "explosion" he said that, "Saidin was worst there."**
The Bowl of the Winds was stressed far beyond its limitations (it was designed in the AoL to affect an entire continent or region; not the whole world as it was used). This caused the weirdness in both male and female channeling in and around the area of Ebou Dar in The Path of Daggers, with it getting weaker and weaker in effects the further away it was.
Elayne's gateway was, as Aiel Finn said, an expanded version of what Aviendha told about with taking apart a weave of Air.
As for present effects, throughout WH and CoT, nothing was made comment of by male channelers or female channelers about it. Almost assuredly, it went away.
Githraine: 2005-03-29
I think the big oops could be Elane's flawed unweaving of the gateway after using the bowl of the winds.
The Flyer who survived the blast (I forget her name) mentioned that this 'new weapon' would hopefully force Suroth to decide to make a decisive move to do for the Marath Damane.
And now we suspect there is an 'air army' headed for the White Tower.
ssjx7squall: 2005-03-29
Well i tend to agree with the fact that Taim is the problem because he has shown his disloyalty a few times. And not that im tryin to piss anyone off but dannil the cause of egwenes headaches is the fact she is trying to learn how to sense a man usingthe one power. Moghieden even says this im not sure where and this is nt the exact quote but one of the things they want to learn from her is how to sense a a males channeling. She says some where when someone asks moghieden about it she says something like there is no way to do it and all she did was teach them some useless thing that would leave them with headaches afterwerds. Another part of it might possibly the girl who gives her massages dont remember her name but ya that might be it. Sorry for goin so off topic
gleeman: 2005-03-29
The Bowl of the Winds was stressed far beyond its limitations (it was designed in the AoL to affect an entire continent or region; not the whole world as it was used). This caused the weirdness in both male and female channeling in and around the area of Ebou Dar in The Path of Daggers, with it getting weaker and weaker in effects the further away it was.
Elayne's gateway was, as Aiel Finn said, an expanded version of what Aviendha told about with taking apart a weave of Air.
As for present effects, throughout WH and CoT, nothing was made comment of by male channelers or female channelers about it. Almost assuredly, it went away.
did it go away, or were there just no channellers near that area? dont forget, the channellers who had trouble holding weaves were near that location when they had the difficulties. in CoT, no one is anywhere near where the bowl and the collapsed weave were.
Asmodean: 2005-03-30
If I was Elayne..I wouldn't consider my failed weave to be a mistake..hell..I'd be like.."woo Hoo..I discovered how to make a Saidar Bomb"..haha
TheJester: 2005-03-30
Right time to bring a bit of focus,
1. Jordan siad that Saidin was difficult to control around Ebu Dar because the Bowl of Winds was stressed beyond it's intended use. He also said it was just taking time for everything to reach equilibrium. Sorry I can't remember the interview but it was either bookwrap or one of the most recent intervies he gave in the last 6 months(check out dragonmount for them)
2. Weaves failing I think these are an extension to the bubbles of evil and the Dark One straining to touch the world as he has done with the weather. In Lord of Chaos when Rand is shielded and in the box when the knots are hard it is when the weave has been tied off, like the wardings on food barrels and the wardings in the White Tower, if these knots are worked at intstead of straining through Saidar to reach Saidin maybe it is the True Power straining through the One Power to break these knots.
However these do not relate to what I think the big oops is.
So here it is:
Through out the series we have had people come up and turn up further down the line that we met in the early books and we seem to have forgotten about.
1. Uno and the Shienarans, who happen to be there when Nynaeve and Elayne need them to get to the boat.
2. Hurin who we know and can guess went back to Shienar and proclaimed Rand as the Dragon Reborn and sparked the fighting, probably due to people doubting his word that is a dueling offence in Shienar and most blight border countries. We also know that he is propbaly with Easar King of Shienar with the army outside of Caemlyn and will no doubt feature in Knife of Dreams.
3. Millie Shaine, the drakfriend that tried to kill Mat and Rand when they were 'on the run' from the Myrdraal at Whitebridge and later appears in Ebu Dar working for Jaicham Carridin and then in Caemlyn ordering the Black Aes Sedai there and Mellar.
4. Paitr the darkfriend that tried to convince Rand and Mat to turn to the Dark in Four Kings again when they are 'on the run' from the Myrdraal at Whitebridge. He later appears in Fires of Heaven and Lord of Chaos in Amador trying to help Queen Morgase escape Pedron Niall, and Morgase has a Pov where she says he hopes to make up a mistake he made in Four Kings (quote masters please if you want to validate this. He was later hanged as a darkfriend and Morgase makes a wrong conclusion and belives he was hanged to get to her.
The whole round a bout point I am making here is that there have been what at the time in the Early books seemed small insignificant characters that came back and have played rather pivital roles. So the Big Oops I belive maybe related to one of these smaller characters.
I think myself but have no idea where it will head other than the effect that it already has on Rand is that the mistake was killing the Female Darkfriend in the Dragon Reborn. We know that there was another female darkfriend merchant that Mat encountered and Tom later killed but maybe the woman Rand killed wasn't a Darkfriend (although there was the Grrey Man with the group) and by Rand's own new laws inless you kill in self defence you hang for murder, this will probably beat him up some more than he already does with his litany of all the women who have died for him including the nameless darkfriend.
Callandor: 2005-03-30
**And not that im tryin to piss anyone off but dannil the cause of egwenes headaches is the fact she is trying to learn how to sense a man using the one power.**
Elayne and Nynaeve were taught this; it's unknown whether Egwene knows of it, was taught it, or ever tried it.
Egwene's headaches are as clear cut as this: Halima is causing them. Besides them appearing the day after Logain leaves (and just when Halima enters the scheme of things), Halima then taking care of them and getting inside Egwene's trust, and them continuing beyond what Egwene says she is doing (she's not doing anything to cause them herself) -- then we have the scene in CoT, where if you can't see Halima getting miffed at Egwene for rudely discharging her from conversation, and then her headaches ~magically~ showing up with remarkable timing as she leaves.
It's impossible to be more cut and dry. ~Why~ Halima is doing it? Debatable. ~Is~ she doing it? Beyond a doubt.
**in CoT, no one is anywhere near where the bowl and the collapsed weave were.**
The Aes Sedai with Mat and co., as well as all the other damane in Ebou Dar. They all report nothing at all. The damane "sickness" was greatly talked about in TPOD, but not even mentioned in CoT.
Githraine: 2005-03-31
My point was the oops is that because of the big boom, the Seanchen are now winging their way to Tar Valon, the meet of which will surely be shown in book 11. I am not saying the weave itself caused anything, but that the impression left on the Seanchen caused them to react. The Law on Unintended consequences and all....
And ssjx7squall, Moggy thought to herself that they has stopped trying that weave long since, well before the headaches started. The headaches are Halima's work, using Sadin which is why they started just after Logan left.
SDog: 2005-04-01
First, I want to reiterate that the "big oops" may not be a mistake at all. RJ never said that. He said that some event in past books will have terrible consequences. As many have pointed out here (to no avail), this does NOT MEAN IT IS A MISTAKE!
Now, regarding the Seanchan and Tower. My impression from RJ's quote is that the consequences are not something we are supposed to be expecting. The Seanchan attack on the Tower, however, has been hinted at and foreshadowed a good bit. We've been talking about it for a long time, so it hardly seems like something unexpected.
If that is the "thing", I would guess that it the consequences will more likely be the nature of the attack. Remember that the Seanchan think that the AS have some huge weapon. I would almost expect their attack on the Tower to be devastating and immediate. That is, they are going to try to destroy as much of the Tower and AS as possible before the AS have the chance to retaliate.
Expect a horribly devastating weapon/attack from the Seanchan. Forget invasion. I'm thinking that they may have a sa'angreal that will level the WT, or some part of it. Could be that Elaida's other building will be destroyed (since destroying the Tower might screw up some prophecies or Foretellings). Either way, we are going to gasp and say, "how horrible!" when the Seanchan whip it out.