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irgitte - Most vulnerable soul in existance

by Oatman: 2004-04-11 | 3.2 out of 10 (10 votes)

Previous Categories: Birgitte - How, Why, and What Will Happen

The facts:

1.Birgitte is a legendary hero of the horn, reborn into the pattern as needed

2.Birgitte broke the rules of the horn by speaking to Nyn and co.

3.She was ripped out of the pattern before she was due to be reborn

4. She has retained memories from all of her lives, but is slowly losing them.

Birgittes soul waited in the dream world, and she did not own a physical body. When she was ripped out of the dream world by Moggy, She had flesh created for her, but was slowly dieing for no apparant reason until Elayne bonded her.

Heres the theory:

Birgettes body was created by her soul as it was ripped out of TAR, but than didnt leave birgitte with enough strenth to live which is why Elayne Bonding her saved her, giving her the extra endurance needed.

I would assume that this body is unstable in physical terms, and the only reason birgitte can survive is because of the warder bond, and that if she were realeased her body would degenerate and she would die.

The fact that she is losing memories sujests that her mind may already be degenerating.

This would explain mins viewing as well, as she is no seeing everything that a PERSON will do, but rather everything a SOUL will do.

The solution to this problem is to open a gateway for Birgitte to enter TAR in the flesh, so that her body can be sustained without the bond.

It is also my firm belief that should Birgitte die in the physical world in her current situation, it would eliminate her soul entirely.
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2004-05-31

I don't agree with your assessment of the "loss of memories." Every soul retains memories of previous lives. In my opinion, it is obvious that when someone is naturally born, they go through a period of time where they lose access to memories of their previous lives, as their current life takes over creating a new set of memories. Birgitte didn't have a natural death, but is experiencing the natural loss of access to memories from previous lives, as her "new life" of memories takes over. I do agree that the bond is keeping her alive, her existence in this life being unstable. However, why would her soul be eliminated entirely? Her physical body will die, and she will return to the pattern. But, I do admit, that Moghedien's trick wouldn't be a good one, if there wasn't something else going on, so maybe there is something different about her eventual death.

2

Callandor: 2004-05-31

Just like tp add, that Birgitte only lost memories up to the Founding of the White Tower. After that, no memory loss has been mentioned.

3

charliec: 2004-06-01

I'm not convinced that the Bond is keeping her alive, she was in a bad way when ripped out of TAR, but we've no evidence that her body remains 'unstable' or ill without te warder bond that I can think of...

I agree with Tamyrlin that the loss of memories is not necessarily an indicator of damage, but rather the natural order for a body living in the real world... the veil is descending (rapidly) between this and former, natural, lives.

I've suggested this before when we were discussing channeling and the body/soul connection- I don't think that the presence in TAR is the soul... but rather a physical reflection of the body. Birgitte's physical body in TAR was transferred wholesale to the waking world, but I do not think that simply moving her back will help. As we've seen she is now normally alive, and will presumably age and die like anyone else... whether she is in TAR or the real world. If she is transported back to TAR she will simply be there 'in the flesh' as others have been. The reason for this is that Moghedien didn't just rip her from TAR, but actually sundered her connection to the horn.

Whether her soul will return to the normal pool of souls or be annihilated is unclear, but we can hope for the best...

4

Dorindha: 2004-06-01

How about that the bonding gave her the added impetus to stabilise her existance, so that she was going to die, as the theory says, but she is now secure. I agree she is in an unique situation, but I'm not sure she is that insecure. It would be interesting to see what would happen if she went into TAR.

5

a dragonburned fool: 2004-06-01

For that theory: two facts of non-Rand'sWorld object brought to world#1 and dissapeared: 1. The thorns in Nynaeve's hands after she leaved the Accepted test ter'angreal. 2. in one of TEotW Rand's Baalzamon-dreams he wakes up with a splinther from the door of Baalzamon's office in his hands. In both cases the object remains some times and dissapears after it is removed from the body of the one who brought it.

If these examples are related to Your theory, then it is a good suggestion that exactly a bonding was needed to stabilize the matter of Birgitte's body. For warder bond is some sort of sharing bodily experience and the warder is in some sence in the bondholder's body like a thorn in the head.

But... Against that theory: The fact, that together with Birgitte also her silver arrow comes to world#1, and that arrow shows no signs of instability at all.

And, if Your theory is true, then there will be some issues with the solution of moving Birgitte back to TAR by Travelling her there in flesh. Birgitte's body will be so changed/shared by the bond, that it will no more match the conditions required for the death Heroes to exist in their way to exist, so she will be in TAR but not join the Heroes, and that will be not a solution at all.

6

Oatman: 2004-06-02

Sorry, shoulda explained the emlimination part in greater detail.

Because Birgitte's soul wasnt put into a physical body, her soul created a physical form, so that she is technically not in a body at all just a soul in the waking world. Its my belief that killing her now would be like killing her in TAR, because their is no physical form to take the brunt of the damage, it will simply kill her soul.

7

jae: 2006-06-01

I know its been a long while since anything has been posted about this theory but all ive got to say is that i agree with this theory to an extent, i believe that if birgitte dies she will die forever otherwise what would have been the point of what was done ripping her soul out. She was dying and if Elayne had not saved her she would have died and ended up strait back in TAR so what would have been the point. first ever post hope it makes sense

8

BrainFireBob: 2006-08-11

Originally, perhaps, she was a forceful dream. After eating, drinking, etc., her body's definitely at least somewhat solid now.

9

Lugh of the Vanth: 2006-11-10

I have to say, I'm suprised to see this theory. I myself have a long-written theory to much the same extent. However, I think that the reason Birgitte's memories are fading is because there is a struggle. Her "body", through the bonding to Elayne, is pinioned in the real world while her soul is trying to be reborn.